"Aging Out" Fans...

[toddkuen]

Here's the debt-to-deficit ratio (red line is total debt):



So no, you can say whatever you like but there has been huge increase in debt and spending under Obama.

The wars went on for six years prior, no huge changes to Social Security, no giant budget changes, nothing. Bush hit up the spending for his final year which reflects in 2009 spending.

And it never went down...

[toddkuen]

And if you check the numbers you'd see that the 2008 recession nixed a huge portion of federal tax income: less business and employment = less tax receipts.

But Obama, upon entering office, didn't bother to respond to the revenue issue and continued to spend and borrow as if revenue were increasing as it had been prior to 2008.

Clinton's huge supposed surplus was actual due to dot com tax receipts and when that bubble burst so did the surpluses (actually Clinton at best didn't increase federal borrowing). Bush tried a tax cut and it would have worked had the real estate bubble not burst... (But that's another story.)

Obama is economically clueless.

You can't spend your way out of debt even if you are a government.

[Potts]

You win...you have charts and graphs. I'm glad I read your posts Todd because the people I've been listening to for the past 8 years just couldn't figure it out.

[Vito Corleone]

Originally Posted by toddkuen

Bush spent a lot in his last year, Obama simply kept up the spending.

On what? What is all this "new spending" of Obama's? Who put it on his desk? You keep saying this has happened but you won't tell me what he's spending ON. Did he create some massive new entitlement program? Sending a bunch more money to Chile? What?

The difference in the deficits in pretty simple: revenues are down and we're suffering from the recession. Most of the "new" spending is stuff like unemployment insurance, food stamps, and helping out the states. Yeah, times are tough so the government is spending more. That's how it works. Wouldn't be nearly as bad if we hadn't run up such huge deficits when times were GOOD! THAT'S the problem!

And most of this stuff he couldn't stop most of it even if he wanted to. You keep wanting to ignore this simple fact, but the truth is the vast majority of the budget was put on the books long before Obama took office. He doesn't have to power to "stop the spending". The House holds the checkbook. All bills have to pass both houses of congress before they get to his desk.

And the reality is most of that stuff is way too big and way too in-motion to simply "stop". Which is why the GOP doesn't do it either. They can't just stop the wars. Or not send out SS checks. There's a massive reality check that BOTH parties need to have regarding the budget. Neither party is facing up to it.

And those who go on about "Obama's out of control spending"? Either don't understand how it works or are simply lying for the sake of playing politics. I don't know which is worse, but either way, they are much more part of the problem than part of the solution.

You can decide for yourself what side you'd rather be on.

[Vito Corleone]

Originally Posted by toddkuen

And if you check the numbers you'd see that the 2008 recession nixed a huge portion of federal tax income: less business and employment = less tax receipts.

But Obama, upon entering office, didn't bother to respond to the revenue issue and continued to spend and borrow as if revenue were increasing as it had been prior to 2008.

lol. What response was he supposed to have? Raise taxes? Cut spending? On what? Defense and put a bunch more people out of work? Assistance to the states and let them lay off even more people than they did? Eliminate social programs so all those who were out of work could starve in the streets? Would THAT have helped the economy? Is that what you think Bush would have done? Or John McCain? Or Mitt Romney?

Yeah, borrowing and deficits go up during bad times. Gee, the private sector even does the same thing. But I guess businesses that borrow some money to get from one down period to a more robust one are "economically clueless" as well?

Tell me, economic maestro. What was the PROPER response to the recession that Obama should have undertaken?

[Vito Corleone]

 

Originally Posted by toddkuen

Bush tried a tax cut and it would have worked had the real estate bubble not burst... (But that's another story.)

 

Huh? Bush cut taxes in 2001 and 2003 and we started running up deficits immediately. The real estate bubble didn't burst until 2007. When EXACTLY where those tax cuts supposed to start working, anyway? What increased revenues during the 00s was all the money coming in due to the real estate bubble, not the tax cuts.