Your band is great... BUT-

[Potts]

Originally Posted by guido61

Why did this band start doing both acoustic and electric shows unless it was to change the perception people had of them?

Boredom and fun.

Just wondering. Do you ever do anything with your band for that reason instead of looking at things from a business perspective?

[Potts]

Originally Posted by guido61

Why did this band start doing both acoustic and electric shows unless it was to change the perception people had of them?

Boredom and fun.

Just wondering. Do you ever do anything with your band for that reason instead of looking at things from a business perspective?

[Potts]

 

Originally Posted by SpaceNorman

There's no denying that being rejected sucks and virtually always gives one reason to pause and assess their situation. However, it's not automatically grounds to change who you are and/or what you're trying to become.

 

Great point!

[Potts]

 

Originally Posted by SpaceNorman

There's no denying that being rejected sucks and virtually always gives one reason to pause and assess their situation. However, it's not automatically grounds to change who you are and/or what you're trying to become.

 

Great point!

[wheresgrant3]

Originally Posted by Potts

Boredom and fun.

Just wondering. Do you ever do anything with your band for that reason instead of looking at things from a business perspective?

No... but maybe that's because the business enables us to have fun.

[wheresgrant3]

Originally Posted by Potts

Boredom and fun.

Just wondering. Do you ever do anything with your band for that reason instead of looking at things from a business perspective?

No... but maybe that's because the business enables us to have fun.

[race81]

We have venues have concerns as a 4 piece with a female...........not alone a 3 piece. Id talk with em again, and maybe see if some of your loyals would request you guys there. If they see profit to be made by your loyal followers, they may give you a try as a three piece.

[race81]

We have venues have concerns as a 4 piece with a female...........not alone a 3 piece. Id talk with em again, and maybe see if some of your loyals would request you guys there. If they see profit to be made by your loyal followers, they may give you a try as a three piece.

[jeff42]

Thank you everyone for the praise on this project as well as the suggestions/ comments about going forward. Like always this forum is FILLED with awesomeness and great info. All you guys are a great help!

We will be hitting 2 years in May and we are chugging along nicely increasing pay and draw. We promote the hell out of this band and do everything we can to be the FUN band in town! (so far, so good)

Every mistake I (and we) made during the 10 years with There & Back Again has not been repeated with Ostrich Hat. Again, so far....

The band has morphed since our 1st gig and who knows? It may change again. I am not counting anything out. We do plan to have a meeting to brainstorm and toss around ideas. No idea will be acted on or dismissed right away no matter how smart or stupid it sounds. Don't worry I will run it by the forum too!

It the past we have toyed with several ideas including going "Electric Ostrich" for the bigger gigs and/or adding another member who plays keys/guitar and sings- again for the bigger gigs.

We have looked at people we have worked with before in other bands including a guy who is a part time member of a VERY popular regional acoustic group that expressed interest. Adding another member that can play what needs to be played would get our bassist out front more- at least some of the time.

It may be only for certain gigs - who knows? Lots of things need to be taken into account and money is one of them.

[jeff42]

Thank you everyone for the praise on this project as well as the suggestions/ comments about going forward. Like always this forum is FILLED with awesomeness and great info. All you guys are a great help!

We will be hitting 2 years in May and we are chugging along nicely increasing pay and draw. We promote the hell out of this band and do everything we can to be the FUN band in town! (so far, so good)

Every mistake I (and we) made during the 10 years with There & Back Again has not been repeated with Ostrich Hat. Again, so far....

The band has morphed since our 1st gig and who knows? It may change again. I am not counting anything out. We do plan to have a meeting to brainstorm and toss around ideas. No idea will be acted on or dismissed right away no matter how smart or stupid it sounds. Don't worry I will run it by the forum too!

It the past we have toyed with several ideas including going "Electric Ostrich" for the bigger gigs and/or adding another member who plays keys/guitar and sings- again for the bigger gigs.

We have looked at people we have worked with before in other bands including a guy who is a part time member of a VERY popular regional acoustic group that expressed interest. Adding another member that can play what needs to be played would get our bassist out front more- at least some of the time.

It may be only for certain gigs - who knows? Lots of things need to be taken into account and money is one of them.

[Vito Corleone]

Originally Posted by Potts

Boredom and fun.

So it was just a happy coincidence then that what was needed to be done from a business perspective was something they just fell into doing.

That's great, but it still apparantly needed to be done--whatever the motivation--if they were to move ahead.

Just wondering. Do you ever do anything with your band for that reason instead of looking at things from a business perspective?

No, but the thing is that it's all tied together. What's fun and exciting for us is to try something new and have it result in the crowd really loving it and/or it being good for business. (The former almost always leads to the latter.)

Maybe it's a form of being jaded and of having done all this for so long, but it just simply does NOTHING for me to spend a great deal of time working on something I think is going to be fun and exciting only to have it be met with *crickets*. I find such things to be in no-way 'fun', nor do they relieve any amount of boredom I might be feeling.

The other side of that is I've yet to be bored or not have fun with this band, so there's been no need to look for stuff to do just for those reasons. When it's no longer fun to do this, I'll probably just leave the band and start doing something else with my spare time. It's way too much work to do this if it's not fun.

[Vito Corleone]

Originally Posted by Potts

Boredom and fun.

So it was just a happy coincidence then that what was needed to be done from a business perspective was something they just fell into doing.

That's great, but it still apparantly needed to be done--whatever the motivation--if they were to move ahead.

Just wondering. Do you ever do anything with your band for that reason instead of looking at things from a business perspective?

No, but the thing is that it's all tied together. What's fun and exciting for us is to try something new and have it result in the crowd really loving it and/or it being good for business. (The former almost always leads to the latter.)

Maybe it's a form of being jaded and of having done all this for so long, but it just simply does NOTHING for me to spend a great deal of time working on something I think is going to be fun and exciting only to have it be met with *crickets*. I find such things to be in no-way 'fun', nor do they relieve any amount of boredom I might be feeling.

The other side of that is I've yet to be bored or not have fun with this band, so there's been no need to look for stuff to do just for those reasons. When it's no longer fun to do this, I'll probably just leave the band and start doing something else with my spare time. It's way too much work to do this if it's not fun.

[jeff42]

another thing we have asked ourselves and was mentioned in another similar thread awhile back is this: Becoming more of what a dance/party band normally is really only requires us to add a member and go with an electric guitar, our setlist is pretty much there already. But in doing that, does that destroy our uniqueness OR would it "advance" us to the next level?

Not sure.

[jeff42]

another thing we have asked ourselves and was mentioned in another similar thread awhile back is this: Becoming more of what a dance/party band normally is really only requires us to add a member and go with an electric guitar, our setlist is pretty much there already. But in doing that, does that destroy our uniqueness OR would it "advance" us to the next level?

Not sure.

[n9ne]

I don't have much to add over and above what others have already mentioned.

I'm guessing that most or all A-list clubs have built their reputation using a reasonably specific musical format. Whether it's rock, country, dance, electronic, heavy metal, whatever......their customers go there expecting a certain type of music. And being pretty well established, they're probably not going to vary too far from that format.

And sad to say, there probably aren't many club formats where an acoustic-oriented pop/rock/dance trio would fit the bill. (Unless they have "Acoustic Wednesdays", or something like that...in which case OH would probably be perfect).

Most A-list clubs try to promote a loud, energetic atmosphere. Unfortunately, when people hear the phrase "acoustic-oriented", the words "loud" and "energetic" probably don't apply. I wouldn't call it a stigma, per se....it's more of an apples-and-oranges kind of thing.

There's no question that OH could be very successful and stay very busy with your current format.....and it's a great format.

But at the same time, there are a number of clubs where that format may not be a good fit.....and if you're looking to get a foot in the door at those clubs, you'll need to adapt your format to something a bit more in line with what they typically offer.

(This is not to say that you'll always have to conform to their standards. Once you've established yourself at a club, you could starting mixing in elements of both formats....like maybe doing your entire first set on acoustics, or whatever.)

[SpaceNorman]

Originally Posted by jeff42

another thing we have asked ourselves and was mentioned in another similar thread awhile back is this: Becoming more of what a dance/party band normally is really only requires us to add a member and go with an electric guitar, our setlist is pretty much there already. But in doing that, does that destroy our uniqueness OR would it "advance" us to the next level?

Not sure.

In order for you to answer the questions you've posed (and ultimately, you and your bandmates are the only folks who CAN answer them) - you have to know what you want success to look like for your band.

Sure - adding players would likely open doors to playing bigger/better gigs. Bigger venues usually means more PA. As the soundman you spoke with told you ... his venue has certain expectations for the groups they hire ... and clearly, meeting those expectations mean giving up at least some of the autonomy and freedom you currently have.

Being the best damn accoustic three piece you know how to be may very well be all it takes for you to be happy. Having the ability to blow in, throw up a compact PA, play stuff you enjoy playing, with the autonomy to play it how you want to while making $$$ on a per man basis doesn't sound at all unappealing.

Adding additional members means more work maintaining band relationships, another person's scheduling constraints to deal with, more than likely, more gear to schlepp, etc.

In the end you guys need to decide what it is that will bring you satisfaction - and stay focused on that. If you simply chase "bigger and more" it a very good possibility that you'll catch "bigger and more" - which may ultimately be exactly what you don't want.

[wesg]

Maybe adding an electric guitar player is too obvious.....Add a Hammond and a Leslie!

Get your guitar player to play an electric that can sound like an acoustic, keep the set basically the same but add the odd electric solo on top of Hammond.

[jimiv]

 

Originally Posted by SpaceNorman

Then in the next breath, he explained that he'll never hire us. His reasons: We were too old and we were female fronted. His experience had been that female fronted acts didn't do well in his venue and was confident that his crowd doesn't respond well to a band of "50 somethings".

 

That's interesting to me because we are a female fronted band. I wonder why that would be a problem for a venue. Although we rarely play public venues any longer, I wonder why a "female front" would not be a "fit" in a club environment. Just curious.

[SpaceNorman]

Originally Posted by jimiv

That's interesting to me because we are a female fronted band. I wonder why that would be a problem for a venue. Although we rarely play public venues any longer, I wonder why a "female front" would not be a "fit" in a club environment. Just curious.

He commented that "in his experience" - a female front brought out the "catty-ness" of his young female patrons. He wanted young male fronted acts because he felt that his young female clientele liked them better - and that be keeping his female clientele happy - he was keeping everybody happy.

Personally, it sounded like bull{censored} to me then - just like it sounds like bull{censored} to me now. But, it's his room - so the game gets played by his rules and he's the judge.

[Vito Corleone]

Originally Posted by SpaceNorman

Personally, it sounded like bull{censored} to me then - just like it sounds like bull{censored} to me now.

Yeah, you never know. Could be a business thing, or a weird-quirky personal thing on his part. Like you said, he gets to call the shots.

Just yesterday I ran into a guitarist I know that I rehearsed with briefly while attempting to start up a band a few years ago. Asked him how the family was and he tells me he recently got divorced because he could no longer deal with his ultra-jealous wife. Then he tells me that the reason he abruptly pulled out of the band we tried to start up was because his wife simply could not stand the idea of him working in a band with a female vocalist. (I remember her treating me like I was the Elephant Man at the time--it was obvious she wasn't happy with him playing in the band, but I wasn't aware of the specific reason.) I tell him "gee, I guess it might have helped if I had told you the singer was a lesbian, but I didn't think it was relevant at the time...."

Probably wouldn't have mattered. Such jealousy defies logic. But maybe your clubowner's "experience" was that he got too friendly with a female vocalist once and the wife got pissed or...who knows? Could be anything.

[Kramerguy]

 

Originally Posted by guido61

Not every band is going to be the right band for every gig or every venue.

 

I hadn't really thought about this, but there was a couple of times last year that I was told "we only have small acoustic acts here" either because of floor space or "full bands are just too loud". I guess the knife cuts both ways?

[Remedy]

- play electric for the last half of the night


- Add a keyboard player

[Remedy]

Originally Posted by jeff42

another thing we have asked ourselves and was mentioned in another similar thread awhile back is this: Becoming more of what a dance/party band normally is really only requires us to add a member and go with an electric guitar, our setlist is pretty much there already. But in doing that, does that destroy our uniqueness OR would it "advance" us to the next level?

Not sure.

I think it adds to your uniquenss if you can be versatile and keep both the acoustic and add the electric when you need to 'level up'

[jimiv]

Originally Posted by SpaceNorman

He commented that "in his experience" - a female front brought out the "catty-ness" of his young female patrons. He wanted young male fronted acts because he felt that his young female clientele liked them better - and that be keeping his female clientele happy - he was keeping everybody happy.

Personally, it sounded like bull{censored} to me then - just like it sounds like bull{censored} to me now. But, it's his room - so the game gets played by his rules and he's the judge.

The last band I was in was male fronted and now this band has two females, lead signer and bass player. I put both of them up front with the lead guitar player and it seems to work better than with the male fronted band. (Plus they look alot better!). I usually closely watch what the audience is doing during the sets (god forbid I should be paying attention to what I'm playing, that would be too challenging! hahahaha)

Anyway, one of the many striking differences I've noticed (between male front and female front) is when there is a group of girls out dancing in a circle with each other (I know you guys have seen this many times before) mainly because the guys they came with would rather sit and drink. Anyway, its kind of like they have their own little exclusive dancing club going on and it is usually tough to bust in on it. No problem with our female front, when she dances out from the stage, she is immediately accepted, like no password needed. The energy jumps up and they are all dancing maniacs now. Brings the whole room up. With the male front, he could eventually gain acceptance and get them up a notch, but he always seemed to have to charm them a little bit first. In other words, he had to come up with the password first.

I have never noticed "catty-ness" but I'm sure it may be out there somewhere.

[jimiv]

Originally Posted by SpaceNorman

He commented that "in his experience" - a female front brought out the "catty-ness" of his young female patrons. He wanted young male fronted acts because he felt that his young female clientele liked them better - and that be keeping his female clientele happy - he was keeping everybody happy.

Personally, it sounded like bull{censored} to me then - just like it sounds like bull{censored} to me now. But, it's his room - so the game gets played by his rules and he's the judge.

The last band I was in was male fronted and now this band has two females, lead signer and bass player. I put both of them up front with the lead guitar player and it seems to work better than with the male fronted band. (Plus they look alot better!). I usually closely watch what the audience is doing during the sets (god forbid I should be paying attention to what I'm playing, that would be too challenging! hahahaha)

Anyway, one of the many striking differences I've noticed (between male front and female front) is when there is a group of girls out dancing in a circle with each other (I know you guys have seen this many times before) mainly because the guys they came with would rather sit and drink. Anyway, its kind of like they have their own little exclusive dancing club going on and it is usually tough to bust in on it. No problem with our female front, when she dances out from the stage, she is immediately accepted, like no password needed. The energy jumps up and they are all dancing maniacs now. Brings the whole room up. With the male front, he could eventually gain acceptance and get them up a notch, but he always seemed to have to charm them a little bit first. In other words, he had to come up with the password first.

I have never noticed "catty-ness" but I'm sure it may be out there somewhere.