Your band is great... BUT-

[jeff42]

 

Originally Posted by ckcondon

Hey Jeff,

I used to live in the Poconos, but that was before I was old enough to hit the bar scene! the only band I know in your region to compare you with would be UUU. I've gotten to know those guys over the years from work-related trips up to the Dick's Open Golf tournament in Endicott.

It seems to me that those guys set the standard for what most "A" rooms will expect in that area. Ultra high energy, non-stop medleys, good production and a party vibe. They cover nothing but the biggest hits and everyone loves them. They have 2 killer vocalists and there is nothing they can't cover. Not sure how other bands perceive them, but they are all good dudes and I usually sit in with them when I'm done working.

 

Yes I know the band. Great players that put on a great show. One of the top in the area IMO. I don't know the players personally and have only talked with them a few times. One of the first bands I saw that incorporated medleys, and they are one of the reasons why we do almost all medleys. I think we have maybe a handful of stand alone tunes. Maybe 5 of them right now. Almost everything is attached to something else in some way. It "ups" the energy and the younger people respond well to it, it also blows some of the older people's minds.

 

It may be because I'm a drummer, but I also agree that a small acoustic kit would be a better option. I love my e-drums, but can't ever see them being used at a gig. the look of drums on stage is very much part of the band image, and that probably puts some people off. The drummer is usually not a focus of the audience, but in a trio, you are more under the spotlight.

 

Well, that's one thing that probably wont change. I tossed the idea around but we always end up ditching it for various reasons. I get nothing but positive feedback with my V-drums, especially since I upgraded them a few months back. Most people look at them in awe and are really interested in how they work. They work well both in a small room and the bigger rooms we play. They pack up easier too. I also used v-drums in my "full band" for 10 years.

 

It's just my perspective, and I hope you can find a way to get this band where you want it.

 

What we don't want is to "top out" at types of places we play and always looking for ways to improve. Whatever that may be.

We started running this race with one leg tied behind our back on purpose... but then again we didn't think it would amount to much more than a gig once or twice a month at the local bar down the street.

Well, that changed... very quickly. Now we gig 4-6X per month and I haven't called or chased a bar owner much in at least 6 months. A little bit but bar owners are flakey, ya know? So, we are doing well. WAY better than we ever thought we would. And now our crowds in the local bars we play are comparable to what our former band pulled.

Big ass dance clubs that get almost strictly agency bands are not where we will be playing most (if any) of our gigs, at least in our current form and I get that. - but other good clubs? Yeah, that's where we are heading, or at least want to. There are a few places we don't enjoy playing right now and we are looking for better places to replace these places with. That's where much of this stems from- Looking for better gigging opportunities and to get rid of some of the places we play that we don't enjoy. Places that are still on the schedule but are on the chopping block for various reasons.

BTW: An A list club in my area is probably considered a great B-list club in bigger markets.

[jeff42]

 

Originally Posted by ckcondon

Hey Jeff,

I used to live in the Poconos, but that was before I was old enough to hit the bar scene! the only band I know in your region to compare you with would be UUU. I've gotten to know those guys over the years from work-related trips up to the Dick's Open Golf tournament in Endicott.

It seems to me that those guys set the standard for what most "A" rooms will expect in that area. Ultra high energy, non-stop medleys, good production and a party vibe. They cover nothing but the biggest hits and everyone loves them. They have 2 killer vocalists and there is nothing they can't cover. Not sure how other bands perceive them, but they are all good dudes and I usually sit in with them when I'm done working.

 

Yes I know the band. Great players that put on a great show. One of the top in the area IMO. I don't know the players personally and have only talked with them a few times. One of the first bands I saw that incorporated medleys, and they are one of the reasons why we do almost all medleys. I think we have maybe a handful of stand alone tunes. Maybe 5 of them right now. Almost everything is attached to something else in some way. It "ups" the energy and the younger people respond well to it, it also blows some of the older people's minds.

 

It may be because I'm a drummer, but I also agree that a small acoustic kit would be a better option. I love my e-drums, but can't ever see them being used at a gig. the look of drums on stage is very much part of the band image, and that probably puts some people off. The drummer is usually not a focus of the audience, but in a trio, you are more under the spotlight.

 

Well, that's one thing that probably wont change. I tossed the idea around but we always end up ditching it for various reasons. I get nothing but positive feedback with my V-drums, especially since I upgraded them a few months back. Most people look at them in awe and are really interested in how they work. They work well both in a small room and the bigger rooms we play. They pack up easier too. I also used v-drums in my "full band" for 10 years.

 

It's just my perspective, and I hope you can find a way to get this band where you want it.

 

What we don't want is to "top out" at types of places we play and always looking for ways to improve. Whatever that may be.

We started running this race with one leg tied behind our back on purpose... but then again we didn't think it would amount to much more than a gig once or twice a month at the local bar down the street.

Well, that changed... very quickly. Now we gig 4-6X per month and I haven't called or chased a bar owner much in at least 6 months. A little bit but bar owners are flakey, ya know? So, we are doing well. WAY better than we ever thought we would. And now our crowds in the local bars we play are comparable to what our former band pulled.

Big ass dance clubs that get almost strictly agency bands are not where we will be playing most (if any) of our gigs, at least in our current form and I get that. - but other good clubs? Yeah, that's where we are heading, or at least want to. There are a few places we don't enjoy playing right now and we are looking for better places to replace these places with. That's where much of this stems from- Looking for better gigging opportunities and to get rid of some of the places we play that we don't enjoy. Places that are still on the schedule but are on the chopping block for various reasons.

BTW: An A list club in my area is probably considered a great B-list club in bigger markets.

[Kramerguy]

 

Originally Posted by jeff42

anywhere good we should look into?

 

The two places I can remember hearing it from recently are the Fairways Pub & Grill in Limerick, and the All Star Cafe in Gilbertsville. Neither would likely pay well enough to warrant the trip, but all-star might pay you 250-300.. might. Don't mention my band to them though.. there was a booking fiasco a while back, where they put us on the bill for the weekend, but forgot to tell us. Of course, that was our fault...

[Kramerguy]

I was thinking more on this topic, I find it interesting..

Anyways... A couple of muso friends in the area have an acoustic duo, one percussionist, and the other does guitars, both sing. They are pretty damn entertaining and do a lot of clever mash ups and covers. I've gone to see them many times, and often joined in on a few songs and sometimes sat in a whole set.

That being said..

While watching them, I've realized (after thinking now about it) that while entertaining, they never were a "show". An old addage: You listen to music, but you go to SEE a band. Most rock bands in bars come not only with a strong mic'd kick drum, but also a light show, much more direct interaction, and something else I can't quite put my finger on. Watching the acoustic act, It seems that the music is there, but more as a sidebar than a main attraction. Full bands command attention, you have to yell over them to have a conversation.. people are getting drunk and dancing.. good lighting is dancing all over the place, and the darkness interweaved with the lighting gives everything a surreal factor. I dunno, there's none of that with an acoustic act. While sitting at the bar, I'm now realizing that yea.. I'm SITTING at the bar, partially watching them, and mostly conversing with the girl next to me, or whatever. The band is closer to dinner music than to a rock show. I'm drinking and having fun, but it's far more organic and less surreal. I'm lumping a lot of general thoughts from sentence to sentence here, so bear with me if I am droning or vague. But, does that make sense? I love playing acoustic, but realize the difference between acoustic and full band is far more dramatic than I gave credit for.

[MartinC]

I get what your saying, and mostly agree- an acoustic act can be more like dinner music vs. a full band with a big pa and lights, etc.

I've played in many full bands. I spent ten years in one band that opened for a bunch of huge acts. But, although I've done many acoustic gigs from solo to four players that were in fact either out and out background, or dinner music type gigs, when those gigs either start out as, or turn into, concert situations, the feedback from the audience and the satisfaction level of the musicians, is higher than the "big show" type gigs IME.

Maybe it's because the audience is closer to the players, but the feedback you get from an engaged crowd is more intense in an acoustic show, again, IME. At that point people aren't dancing around, they are fixed on the performance.

And then there is the money-the money is simply better in smaller acts of the same level. Maybe it's just because there are fewer people to pay, but there is also less gear, less to go wrong with the gear, faster setup, better hours, and again, WAY more money.

I just love it when I can go to a gig and just bring a guitar, or a guitar and an amp, mike, stand, and that's it. Parking becomes a non issue. Park a block away, grab your guitar and stroll to the gig.

I think it's critical to find the right rooms, but that's true no matter what you do.

 

Originally Posted by Kramerguy

I was thinking more on this topic, I find it interesting..

Anyways... A couple of muso friends in the area have an acoustic duo, one percussionist, and the other does guitars, both sing. They are pretty damn entertaining and do a lot of clever mash ups and covers. I've gone to see them many times, and often joined in on a few songs and sometimes sat in a whole set.

That being said..

While watching them, I've realized (after thinking now about it) that while entertaining, they never were a "show". An old addage: You listen to music, but you go to SEE a band. Most rock bands in bars come not only with a strong mic'd kick drum, but also a light show, much more direct interaction, and something else I can't quite put my finger on. Watching the acoustic act, It seems that the music is there, but more as a sidebar than a main attraction. Full bands command attention, you have to yell over them to have a conversation.. people are getting drunk and dancing.. good lighting is dancing all over the place, and the darkness interweaved with the lighting gives everything a surreal factor. I dunno, there's none of that with an acoustic act. While sitting at the bar, I'm now realizing that yea.. I'm SITTING at the bar, partially watching them, and mostly conversing with the girl next to me, or whatever. The band is closer to dinner music than to a rock show. I'm drinking and having fun, but it's far more organic and less surreal. I'm lumping a lot of general thoughts from sentence to sentence here, so bear with me if I am droning or vague. But, does that make sense? I love playing acoustic, but realize the difference between acoustic and full band is far more dramatic than I gave credit for.

 

[jeff42]

 

Originally Posted by Kramerguy

I love playing acoustic, but realize the difference between acoustic and full band is far more dramatic than I gave credit for.

 

true, and my new project has found itself in between them both so it seems.

BTW thanks for a little info on those two places. Unfortunately they are almost a 2 hr drive from Ostrich Hat HQ- and the price you mentioned is less than we make now.

[jayare]

Jeff..Stay the way you are!!You have a unique thang.I'll bet that there are a lot of so-called

"bigger" band guys in your area,that are checking your band out,and thinking;"thats the way to do it".Stay the course!

[jeff42]

thanks Jayare, lots of different ways to look at the situation, which is not a bad situation to be in. Like the dude says, This is a complicated case, Maude. A lot of ins, a lot of outs, a lot of what-have-yous, a lot of strands to keep in my head, man. Lot of strands in old Duder's head.

We talked briefly last night before our gig. But we are having a meeting in the next week or 2. All 3 of us need to be in sync with whatever we do. Bottom line- The work is steady, Our crowds are not awful- just Some nights are lighter and more laid back than others and on a light night it feels even lighter cuz of the 3 man semi-acoustic thing we do. And then we do some gigs that end up like this:

 

[jimiv]

 

Originally Posted by Kramerguy

I was thinking more on this topic, I find it interesting..

Anyways... A couple of muso friends in the area have an acoustic duo, one percussionist, and the other does guitars, both sing. They are pretty damn entertaining and do a lot of clever mash ups and covers. I've gone to see them many times, and often joined in on a few songs and sometimes sat in a whole set.

That being said..

While watching them, I've realized (after thinking now about it) that while entertaining, they never were a "show". An old addage: You listen to music, but you go to SEE a band. Most rock bands in bars come not only with a strong mic'd kick drum, but also a light show, much more direct interaction, and something else I can't quite put my finger on. Watching the acoustic act, It seems that the music is there, but more as a sidebar than a main attraction. Full bands command attention, you have to yell over them to have a conversation.. people are getting drunk and dancing.. good lighting is dancing all over the place, and the darkness interweaved with the lighting gives everything a surreal factor. I dunno, there's none of that with an acoustic act. While sitting at the bar, I'm now realizing that yea.. I'm SITTING at the bar, partially watching them, and mostly conversing with the girl next to me, or whatever. The band is closer to dinner music than to a rock show. I'm drinking and having fun, but it's far more organic and less surreal. I'm lumping a lot of general thoughts from sentence to sentence here, so bear with me if I am droning or vague. But, does that make sense? I love playing acoustic, but realize the difference between acoustic and full band is far more dramatic than I gave credit for.

 

Makes perfect sense to me.

[Blackbird 13]

I'm late to the party.. but two things to add.

1. My group, Broke By Sunday, also does shows as a two piece acoustic act, and a three piece acoustic (sometimes two guitar/vocals and bass... sometimes two guitar/vocals and drums... tonight guitar/vocal, drums, and I'll be singing and switching between guitar and bass) act. In the acoustic set.. we do a lot of stuff like Billie Jean, This Is How We Do It, Poker Face, Dynamite... but we also do a lot of 90s/00s rock standards (Blink 182, Sublime, etc), new country stuff like Jason Aldean and Keith Urban, and classics like BEG and Sweet Caroline. There is a balance.. so even if you didn't dig the Prince tune we just played acoustic... maybe you'll like that Florida Georgia Line song coming up next.

I'm not advocating you guys adding a lot of variety (the above poster was right that you guys have found a niche).. but it is possible that someone booking bands might figure you're a bit of a one trick pony (maybe even more style-wise than genre-wise). I know how easy it is to get pigeonholed... and there's got to be more than novelty to back everything up.

It's also interesting how sometimes what the crowds want and what the people booking the rooms want aren't exactly the same things. There's another fine line to straddle.

2. In my area, there are probably about 10-15 "full time" (3+ nights a week at decent money) bands. One of them does a LOT of rap/top 40/RnB type stuff (think "Wobble", "Shots", "Low", "Say Ahh".. anything new and hot). The drummer in that band runs an electric kit AT ALL TIMES. While I think there's something to be said for the difference in sound an acoustic kit makes.. I also think that's the cranky old musician in me (I'm 29.. what?!) talking. An electric kit allows for a lot more consistency on what is typically the most inconsistent sounding instrument onstage. Volume issues become minimal.. and the kit can incorporate a WIDE range of sounds throughout.

Another thing.. as much as it even pains me to ask you (cranky old 29 year old musician, remember?). Given that you already have an electric kit, have you given any thought to incorporating samples to beef up your sound. Don't use them for the smaller, acoustic vibed gigs.. and use them for the bigger, higher "production" gigs.

Oh.. and what happened to TBA? You guys seemed to be moving right along.. still gigging as that band at all?

[vablows]

You gotta give a show...I see a lot of band demo videos that are just 4 or 5 guys (and a girl or 2) standing around playing to the music.

Why would anyone want to pay a lot of money for that?

Why not just have a DJ at that point?

My band gives a show- and it is a lot more fun for us as well instead of just standing there playing the songs mindlessly.

[jeff42]

 

Originally Posted by Blackbird 13

Oh.. and what happened to TBA? You guys seemed to be moving right along.. still gigging as that band at all?

 

TBA is on hiatus right now cuz besides OH going well it was harder and harder to find gigs for TBA and harder for the whole band to be available to play gigs- for various personal reasons.

It also just didn't seem like that band could "move up" and we have been chugging along for 10 years. Some of the guys were over tired of playing in bars and want to go after more privates/corp. and weddings. As of this moment we don't have anything booked but a few people have contacted us about community events in the summer. Who knows?

[Unalaska]

I'm also late to the party but I kinda see what your band is going for. There are a couple of good 3pc variety bands around seattle, they work a lot, pay is pretty good, alot of hustling of course but that's life. They run elec guitar and acoustic drums, which to me is your biggest limiting factor. If you straddle the line between acoustic and electric then it's hard to define what the band is. Yeah it can be smaller and work with a room where volume is an issue, and it can be something louder and more energetic.

But there is a point where a full band has that extra gear in the gearbox you guys don't have, that's the electric guitar and acoustic drums. The presence and "feel" of the wind blowing by the pant legs from amps etc. You lose out on tonal variety with an acoustic guitar since it has 1 sound, an electric has clean/dirty/lead/chorused etc. The elec drum kit isn't being used to its potential either, basic kick/snare sounds sure, but on current dance stuff you can use 808 sounds, hand claps and a whole range of stuff. But it's really hard to pull that off in smaller gig environments.

Also, WTF is the guitar player doing strumming full bar chords on This is How We Do It? Really? White funk, I get it, but at least try. I'd have my ghetto pass revoked in a heartbeat if I did that.

[jeff42]

 

Originally Posted by Unalaska

but on current dance stuff you can use 808 sounds, hand claps and a whole range of stuff.

 

I use some stuff like that on certain tunes. If it sounds good we go with it. If it doesn't- we improvise. Just like all our tunes.

The one thing I really enjoy about what we do with this 3 piece line up is we are "free" break all the rules and to work up and interpret dance, r&b, rap and modern pop tunes our own way. People have really responded positively to that- across the board... every time.

 

Also, WTF is the guitar player doing strumming full bar chords on This is How We Do It? Really? White funk, I get it, but at least try. I'd have my ghetto pass revoked in a heartbeat if I did that.

 

As far as "wtf" joe is doing... I'll ask him.

[GtrGeorge!]

I posted a lengthy post last  about 20 hrs ago...and it's  not here...wtf???

 

    GtrGeorge

[StageMasters]

Hey Jeff, I think your band sounds cool and in my experience you can avoid this issue.

Most of the professional bands I know or tour with started by going to their favorite clubs

and asked what kind of band they were looking for. While respecting their music and identity,

they modify their act or set up to fit in and it worked perfectly.

It has to be done strategically and not at random.

Check if playing in that club will be worth the effort.

Invite people like producers or whoever can boost your career and be the band that club want for one night.

They want it electric for that show? Go for it!

They want a larger band?bring more musicians in.

I have with some bands who had different set ups, depending on the event and the needs of the event.

 

StageMasters

[jeff42]

---

StageMasters wrote:

 

Hey Jeff, I think your band sounds cool and in my experience you can avoid this issue.

 

Most of the professional bands I know or tour with started by going to their favorite clubs

 

and asked what kind of band they were looking for. While respecting their music and identity,

 

they modify their act or set up to fit in and it worked perfectly.

 

It has to be done strategically and not at random.

 

Check if playing in that club will be worth the effort.

 

Invite people like producers or whoever can boost your career and be the band that club want for one night.

 

They want it electric for that show? Go for it!

 

They want a larger band?bring more musicians in.

 

I have with some bands who had different set ups, depending on the event and the needs of the event.

 

 

 

StageMasters

---

 

Larger band- like I said right now that's not going to happen because at least half of the gigs we do right now do not require it and some of the places where 3 guys are a tight fit another would be even tighter. LOL

Yeah, we play some small places that normally only get solo acts and duos. Our footprint is small enuff to fit but we are "livelier" than a duo- so the small places really dig that, and that's how this thing started. Just to play small places. The nice thing is that it went way beyond that. That's when other options presented themselves.

One thing we are offering for privates/corps/weddings is the addition of a keyboard player. We have some possible gigs coming up on this front so who knows? But not enough to say we are adding a member. This keyboard guy would only be for the few gigs we need him for. He has no interest in joining the band... even part time.

Having our guitar player play electric-  we are probably going to experiment with this more next month I believe. We tried it out for a couple shows last year but never put thought into it. Somethings would have to be "reworked." 

[StratGuy22]

I like the video, I'm sure adding keys will really fill out the sound. And it might work great all around, letting you scale up when you need to for the bigger gigs, and stay with the 3 piece otherwise...