Your band is great... BUT-

jeff42 · January 3, 2013

Originally Posted by Kramerguy

I hadn't really thought about this, but there was a couple of times last year that I was told "we only have small acoustic acts here" either because of floor space or "full bands are just too loud". I guess the knife cuts both ways?

anywhere good we should look into?

Originally Posted by SpaceNorman

Having the ability to blow in, throw up a compact PA, play stuff you enjoy playing, with the autonomy to play it how you want to while making $$$ on a per man basis doesn't sound at all unappealing.

This is another thing... we LIKE being able to show up and in 20 minutes be ready to go.

Originally Posted by wesg

Maybe adding an electric guitar player is too obvious.....Add a Hammond and a Leslie!

Get your guitar player to play an electric that can sound like an acoustic, keep the set basically the same but add the odd electric solo on top of Hammond.

If we were to add a player it would be a keyboard player with hopefully some guitar & vocal ability.

wheresgrant3 · January 3, 2013

Originally Posted by Kramerguy

I hadn't really thought about this, but there was a couple of times last year that I was told "we only have small acoustic acts here" either because of floor space or "full bands are just too loud". I guess the knife cuts both ways?

I can think of a dozen places that are willing to accommodate smaller bands. Our ex drummer is in one... a 4 piece stripped down acoustic band (singer, guitarist, bassist, drummer) that play alot of 7-11pm shows, and smaller venues. There are places that want music but have no business bringing in big rock bands.

MartinC · January 3, 2013

I like OH as well. I have worked in "a" list clubs as a trio before. Packed clubs with just three guys sitting in chairs-no bass, no drums, no vocals. They just weren't clubs looking for top 40 dance bands. We "fit" in those rooms because we helped represent what the management was trying to present.

If that was possible for us, OH, with good vocals and known tunes, will clearly have plenty of great opportunities. There's no doubt that some bookers are going to feel that a trio isn't enough firepower. There are also people who won't hire a group without a female lead or even two, or without keyboards, or without a facebook page, etc. IOW, there are all kinds of people with strange ideas about what is suitable entertainment for their venue.

It is true in my case, that when we added a 4th member we ended up doing some bigger venues. I think it had more to do with what the 4th guy added musically than the fact that we had an extra body on the stage.

Bottom line, to me at least, it's not the number of people in the band, it's the entertainment value. It seems so obvious but clearly it doesn't always work that way.

Potts · January 3, 2013

Apparently I'm fortunate to be in such a great place for music. Nobody gives a {censored}...you're either good and you can draw, or you're not. If you're no good and can't draw, you don't play the club.

As far as Guido attempting to be right right regarding my friend's band... No, the band played electric shows because they could. Its the same reasons it's not uncommon for a band here to go out and pull off an entire album side because they feel like it- not because they needed to. Maybe we're more laid back than in other parts of the country.

tim_7string · January 3, 2013

Originally Posted by jeff42

anywhere good we should look into?

This is another thing... we LIKE being able to show up and in 20 minutes be ready to go.

If we were to add a player it would be a keyboard player with hopefully some guitar & vocal ability.

As a guy in a trio myself, I face similar prejudice. I don't bother to go for the A rooms because I know those clubs have certain requirements, one of which includes being signed with a specific booking agency out of Fargo. As I am more of a DIY kind of guy, I don't really care to go that route and since I don't play the game, I don't get to be involved with that environment.

I think the other guys are right when it comes to draw. Maybe you will be able to pack them in wherever you play, but at this point, it would be a significant risk for an "A venue" to take you on due to your unique approach. Sad to say but most clubs like to stick with what they know (what has been successful).

Vito Corleone · January 4, 2013

Originally Posted by Potts

Apparently I'm fortunate to be in such a great place for music. Nobody gives a {censored}...you're either good and you can draw, or you're not.

No offense, but I really kinda think that's not unique to where you live. If you draw, you draw and get work. That's pretty universal. It's not like the OP is promising a 500 person crowd and getting turned down anyway simply because the band is acoustic. It's because the clubowner is afraid an acoustic act WON'T draw or hold a crowd and until the OP can prove otherwise, the owner MAY be correct.

As far as Guido attempting to be right right regarding my friend's band... No, the band played electric shows because they could.

Yeah, I got that. But unless I read you wrong you said it was this simply-because-they-could decision to go electric that led to their being able to book bigger rooms. Not that they were an acoustic act that drew so well that they got into the bigger rooms as an acoustic act.

So whether they did it simply as a business decision or simply for the fun of it, the bottom line is that it was a decision that NEEDED to be made to get into the bigger rooms. Right?

In other words, they made the right BUSINESS decision, but just fell into it by dumb luck rather than by means of having a smart business plan. Cool story, I guess, but kinda irrelevant to the OP UNLESS you're suggesting he should go electric.

IsildursBane · January 4, 2013

Ok, here's my take on what the OP can (potentially) to do help get himself into the A rooms w/o changing the format or style of his band:

Tighten up the rhythms.

I've seen other bands do this format and as far as I can remember, they've all had a pretty funky vibe, which is what it seems like you're trying to go for, too, at least to a degree. The problem is that in order to have a funky vibe, you need a tight rhythm section, and that's even more important if there's only 3 of you, because they're no filler to distract from it. Unfortunately, you guys just aren't that tight. You're not embarrassingly bad or anything, and the bass playing is completely inaudible where I'm listening now (so I can't judge it), but at least the drumming is just... meh.

Second would be to work on the vocals. Again, not terrible, but a little more ..meh.. than what I'd expect in an A-level club. This goes for pitch, power, tone, syncopation, etc. It's also another thing that you could probably skate by on if you had more people in the group, but can't hide, because you don't.

Personally, I don't think the promo video with the black background makes you look good. It's boring and the sounds are weak. I'd rather see a good video from a gig that has some energy. Of the videos I saw on your web site, I thought the one with the drummer on an actual kit had the most energy.

-Dan.

mstreck · January 4, 2013

Originally Posted by jeff42

another thing we have asked ourselves and was mentioned in another similar thread awhile back is this: Becoming more of what a dance/party band normally is really only requires us to add a member and go with an electric guitar, our setlist is pretty much there already. But in doing that, does that destroy our uniqueness OR would it "advance" us to the next level?

Not sure.

Jeff, why not have two different forms of the band? The current one to play the clubs that you are playing now and the new (larger/electric) one to play the clubs that you want to play?

SpaceNorman · January 4, 2013

Originally Posted by jimiv

The last band I was in was male fronted and now this band has two females, lead signer and bass player. I put both of them up front with the lead guitar player and it seems to work better than with the male fronted band. (Plus they look alot better!). I usually closely watch what the audience is doing during the sets (god forbid I should be paying attention to what I'm playing, that would be too challenging! hahahaha)

Anyway, one of the many striking differences I've noticed (between male front and female front) is when there is a group of girls out dancing in a circle with each other (I know you guys have seen this many times before) mainly because the guys they came with would rather sit and drink. Anyway, its kind of like they have their own little exclusive dancing club going on and it is usually tough to bust in on it. No problem with our female front, when she dances out from the stage, she is immediately accepted, like no password needed. The energy jumps up and they are all dancing maniacs now. Brings the whole room up. With the male front, he could eventually gain acceptance and get them up a notch, but he always seemed to have to charm them a little bit first. In other words, he had to come up with the password first.

I have never noticed "catty-ness" but I'm sure it may be out there somewhere.

My experience with female fronted bands has been very close to yours. The female lead vocalists that I've worked with (and I've worked with several over the years) had done a great job of relating to the females in the audience. Their willingness to step off stage and join the "dance circle" has always been a good thing. The men in the audience have always been happy to watch the female front working it on stage ... and happy to watch the "dance circle" if that's the way the night happened to go.

Like I said - it sounded like bull{censored} when the club owner first explained his sentiments - and still sounds like bull{censored}. The fact remains however, that as far as he was concerned - a female fronted act wasn't a good fit for his vision for his venue - and right, wrong or indifferent, that was all that matters.

bassred · January 4, 2013

I'm going to be honest. I am not at all shooting for hurt feelings. This is why we have forums, to give and get feedback, isn't it?

I dig the idea. White guys playing R&B, dance and rap songs is cheeky...almost daring (if it weren't for that damned Maroon 5)... I think that if I were at a bar/club and you were playing, I wouldn't stay very long. It's not just the format...

There is no 'look' and I NOW how much people hate being told that appearance is important, so no one jump my {censored}, but there is no consistency - is it casual T's? Button-ups? Sport-fabric Polo's you get from your day job? the three together don't really tell me who you are.

There is little-to-no stage presence beyond being presently on a stage... I sing backups (and sang lead on 85% of the material in my last band) and find plenty of time to step back away from the mic and rock out. It is also important to note that I understand everyone has a different comfort level - this is just my opinion, my 2 cents, I'm just sayin....

The vocals are OK. If you are dressed like you just left your pizza delivery job and standing in one spot all night, you are going to have to blow me away. One or two of these together can be defeated by doing one or two of these well (at the right time).

I agree that tightening it up in general would be good, maybe invest in better monitors or something that can help with the vocals (sounds like the bass player has to practically scream, and is therefore less pleasing to the ear).

Seriously just some food for thought. I'd enjoy a beer. I'd enjoy the band for the duration of said beer and post something on Facebook about the fun vibe of doing 'Smooth Criminal' with an acoustic and no synths, and then find out where other friends were drinking that night.

bassred · January 4, 2013

I'm going to be honest. I am not at all shooting for hurt feelings. This is why we have forums, to give and get feedback, isn't it?

I dig the idea. White guys playing R&B, dance and rap songs is cheeky...almost daring (if it weren't for that damned Maroon 5)... I think that if I were at a bar/club and you were playing, I wouldn't stay very long. It's not just the format...

There is no 'look' and I NOW how much people hate being told that appearance is important, so no one jump my {censored}, but there is no consistency - is it casual T's? Button-ups? Sport-fabric Polo's you get from your day job? the three together don't really tell me who you are.

There is little-to-no stage presence beyond being presently on a stage... I sing backups (and sang lead on 85% of the material in my last band) and find plenty of time to step back away from the mic and rock out. It is also important to note that I understand everyone has a different comfort level - this is just my opinion, my 2 cents, I'm just sayin....

The vocals are OK. If you are dressed like you just left your pizza delivery job and standing in one spot all night, you are going to have to blow me away. One or two of these together can be defeated by doing one or two of these well (at the right time).

I agree that tightening it up in general would be good, maybe invest in better monitors or something that can help with the vocals (sounds like the bass player has to practically scream, and is therefore less pleasing to the ear).

Seriously just some food for thought. I'd enjoy a beer. I'd enjoy the band for the duration of said beer and post something on Facebook about the fun vibe of doing 'Smooth Criminal' with an acoustic and no synths, and then find out where other friends were drinking that night.

jeff42 · January 4, 2013

Originally Posted by bassred

Seriously just some food for thought. I'd enjoy a beer. I'd enjoy the band for the duration of said beer and post something on Facebook about the fun vibe of doing 'Smooth Criminal' with an acoustic and no synths, and then find out where other friends were drinking that night.

hey seriously, that's a good idea. didn't even think about adding that one!

I get what you are saying and that's how this started and still is the main drive... The fun vibe of breaking down dance and pop tunes.

Remember that douche-bag in the corner of almost every college party wooing chicks by singing the flavor of the week on his acoustic guitar... That's where some of this idea came from. (minus the douche baggery) but also like the nights I sat with friends in the woods of Pennsylvania singing sabbath tunes tapping on a barrel while my buddy played acoustic. The "fun" vibe of stripping it all down but still having people recognize it.

Also, I really don't feel we are meh at all- yeah sometimes my playing is ok sometimes its awful. cuz I am not Portnoy or zonder or bozzio but that's OK I do what i can. But I understand (just like all music) not everyone is going to enjoy it.

jeff42 · January 4, 2013

Originally Posted by bassred

Seriously just some food for thought. I'd enjoy a beer. I'd enjoy the band for the duration of said beer and post something on Facebook about the fun vibe of doing 'Smooth Criminal' with an acoustic and no synths, and then find out where other friends were drinking that night.

hey seriously, that's a good idea. didn't even think about adding that one!

I get what you are saying and that's how this started and still is the main drive... The fun vibe of breaking down dance and pop tunes.

Remember that douche-bag in the corner of almost every college party wooing chicks by singing the flavor of the week on his acoustic guitar... That's where some of this idea came from. (minus the douche baggery) but also like the nights I sat with friends in the woods of Pennsylvania singing sabbath tunes tapping on a barrel while my buddy played acoustic. The "fun" vibe of stripping it all down but still having people recognize it.

Also, I really don't feel we are meh at all- yeah sometimes my playing is ok sometimes its awful. cuz I am not Portnoy or zonder or bozzio but that's OK I do what i can. But I understand (just like all music) not everyone is going to enjoy it.

IsildursBane · January 4, 2013

Originally Posted by jeff42

Also, I really don't feel we are meh at all- yeah sometimes my playing is ok sometimes its awful. cuz I am not Portnoy or zonder or bozzio but that's OK I do what i can. But I understand (just like all music) not everyone is going to enjoy it.

Like bassred, my intent is not to hurt feelings either, just to provide constructive feedback.

It's not the genre that turns me off, and I don't think it's as "out there" as you seem to think it is. I recall a number of bands doing it where I lived about 10 years ago. It's also related to what Dave Matthews does.

I would actually enjoy watching a band like this (and I typically hate cover bands) - but this isn't necessarily easy material to pull off, and as an acoustic 3-piece, you don't have anything to hide behind. It's gotta be super tight or else it's just flat.

-Dan.

IsildursBane · January 4, 2013

Originally Posted by jeff42

Also, I really don't feel we are meh at all- yeah sometimes my playing is ok sometimes its awful. cuz I am not Portnoy or zonder or bozzio but that's OK I do what i can. But I understand (just like all music) not everyone is going to enjoy it.

Like bassred, my intent is not to hurt feelings either, just to provide constructive feedback.

It's not the genre that turns me off, and I don't think it's as "out there" as you seem to think it is. I recall a number of bands doing it where I lived about 10 years ago. It's also related to what Dave Matthews does.

I would actually enjoy watching a band like this (and I typically hate cover bands) - but this isn't necessarily easy material to pull off, and as an acoustic 3-piece, you don't have anything to hide behind. It's gotta be super tight or else it's just flat.

-Dan.

jeff42 · January 4, 2013

Originally Posted by IsildursBane

Like bassred, my intent is not to hurt feelings either, just to provide constructive feedback.

nah feelings arn't hurt. there's always room for improvement. I'm not one of "those guys"

It's not the genre that turns me off, and I don't think it's as "out there" as you seem to think it is. I recall a number of bands doing it where I lived about 10 years ago. It's also related to what Dave Matthews does.

True but I can recall zero bands doing this in my area and that's why IMO its a fresh approach. At least where I live in PA. I am sure there have been others that have done this strip down acoustic pop song thing but none I know about in my area in the last 10 years.

Hell, most "full" bands don't touch 80% of our material... Again in my hometown and to a lesser extent the nearest city. My area (northeastern PA or NEPA) is overflowing with the typical Bar bands. Some are VERY good at what they do, so we offer an 'alternative." That's also why my former band did dance/party music. Cuz no one else in my home town did.

Just a couple weeks back we split the night with a cover band that has been around for 20 years. A week before the show I sent the singer our setlist and asked if there was anything he was doing that night that was in our set and if it was we would take it out. He replied with "LOL just one song.... Living on a prayer."

The night was a huge success and the crowd ate up the variety.

Their set included stuff like:

sweet child

bad girlfriend

living on a prayer

crazy bitch

roadhouse blues

peace frog

mr. brownstone

jukebox hero

hurt so good

ours:

GOOD FEELING MEDLEY

jeff42 · January 4, 2013

Originally Posted by IsildursBane

Like bassred, my intent is not to hurt feelings either, just to provide constructive feedback.

nah feelings arn't hurt. there's always room for improvement. I'm not one of "those guys"

It's not the genre that turns me off, and I don't think it's as "out there" as you seem to think it is. I recall a number of bands doing it where I lived about 10 years ago. It's also related to what Dave Matthews does.

True but I can recall zero bands doing this in my area and that's why IMO its a fresh approach. At least where I live in PA. I am sure there have been others that have done this strip down acoustic pop song thing but none I know about in my area in the last 10 years.

Hell, most "full" bands don't touch 80% of our material... Again in my hometown and to a lesser extent the nearest city. My area (northeastern PA or NEPA) is overflowing with the typical Bar bands. Some are VERY good at what they do, so we offer an 'alternative." That's also why my former band did dance/party music. Cuz no one else in my home town did.

Just a couple weeks back we split the night with a cover band that has been around for 20 years. A week before the show I sent the singer our setlist and asked if there was anything he was doing that night that was in our set and if it was we would take it out. He replied with "LOL just one song.... Living on a prayer."

The night was a huge success and the crowd ate up the variety.

Their set included stuff like:

sweet child

bad girlfriend

living on a prayer

crazy bitch

roadhouse blues

peace frog

mr. brownstone

jukebox hero

hurt so good

ours:

GOOD FEELING MEDLEY

Potts · January 4, 2013

Originally Posted by guido61

No offense, but I really kinda think that's not unique to where you live. If you draw, you draw and get work. That's pretty universal.

Thanks--because you just made my point from page 1.

Potts · January 4, 2013

Originally Posted by guido61

No offense, but I really kinda think that's not unique to where you live. If you draw, you draw and get work. That's pretty universal.

Thanks--because you just made my point from page 1.

ckcondon · January 4, 2013

Hey Jeff,

I used to live in the Poconos, but that was before I was old enough to hit the bar scene! the only band I know in your region to compare you with would be UUU. I've gotten to know those guys over the years from work-related trips up to the Dick's Open Golf tournament in Endicott.

It seems to me that those guys set the standard for what most "A" rooms will expect in that area. Ultra high energy, non-stop medleys, good production and a party vibe. They cover nothing but the biggest hits and everyone loves them. They have 2 killer vocalists and there is nothing they can't cover. Not sure how other bands perceive them, but they are all good dudes and I usually sit in with them when I'm done working.

My perspective is similar to what others are saying. What you guys are doing is solid, but the bottom line is that an acoustic-ish trio can only do so much. The guys up front are stuck at the mic and the sound will always be vocally driven instead of guitar driven. The product itself lends itself perfectly to the smaller rooms that want live bands, but don't want "The big show". That isn't a bad thing and the low-maintenance factor goes a long way!

It may be because I'm a drummer, but I also agree that a small acoustic kit would be a better option. I love my e-drums, but can't ever see them being used at a gig. the look of drums on stage is very much part of the band image, and that probably puts some people off. The drummer is usually not a focus of the audience, but in a trio, you are more under the spotlight.

What can you do? I think you need to acknowledge that the trio has limitations and that in order to get the big gigs, you should consider adding an electric lead/rhythm player who can let the singer be more of a frontman and interact with the crowd more. This person will fatten up your sound as well. I'd also be willing to drag the acoustic kit to bigger rooms.

I started my last band as a trio and it was great, but when we added the "guitar hero", it immediately took us to the next level.

Just remember, you can't necessarily change the market, but you can adapt in order to capitalize on it.

It's just my perspective, and I hope you can find a way to get this band where you want it.

ckcondon · January 4, 2013