Take this tablet and see if things improve

[Potts]

LOL..you're initial paragraph came across like you were going to be impartial and practical. You basically endorsed ANYTHING but Apple in all of your quotes.

[chemikool]

Well yea...that is the truth. Very much impartial and practical. I'm not interested in spin. Like I said, I own products from all of the companies and they all have good and bad points. The discussion was concerning Apple's tablet (mostly) so that is what I focused on, at least primarily.

You want me to also say things about Microsoft? and Google? Because there are MORE than enough things to say, both good and bad, about them. But this thread concerns tablets, and primarily Apple.

LOL..you're initial paragraph came across like you were going to be impartial and practical. You basically endorsed ANYTHING but Apple in all of your quotes.

So...because I didn't endorse Apple I'm not being impartial and practical? Please help me understand where you're going with this, Mr Potts! I would like for you to point out to me where I was not impartial and/or practical! I think we both have gigs tonight (mine is done at 10pm --- little pizza place) so I'll check back either later on tonight or tomorrow!

You know (or maybe you don't) I'm not stupid...I bought Apple stock about 4 or 5 years ago when it was less than $200 a share. The Ipods were just coming into their own and I made a good investment decision. Apple has made and continues to make me a LOT of money. So I really do love Apple. The more of their products people buy, the more money I'll make via higher stock prices. But the money is separate from the reality. The reality is they overcharge for their products. To debate that (at least with me) is folly and unwise. That is one of the reasons WHY I bought the stock.

You want me to bag on Microsoft? Here goes: they should have KILLED Apple with the Zune...and I mean KILLED! Apple should not have even HAD the resources to make the iPad. The Zune (initially) had better connectivity, longer battery, more open, cheaper price...but the marketing fell flat. Take the marketing and add in iTunes and it's no wonder that Microsoft got owned.

BUT, I'm nothing if not open-minded; convince me to buy an Ipad. Nobody has yet, but I'm always willing to listen. I need a good 10 inch tablet. My seven inch doesn't do the trick anymore and I want to ditch the notebooks. For what I need it to do (display lyrics) all I need is a cheap POS.

[Potts]

 

Since I'll be throwing my hat into this discussion, I would like you all to know that I in NO WAY endorse Apple, Microsoft or Google.

 

 

I don't care what you say about any of the products. I simply like to pick apart people's words and meanings for fun sometimes.

 

Aristotle had a theory of persuasion- one of the aspects of persuasion is Ethos, or one's "credibility or authority". You attempted to show Ethos in this discussion by stating that you don't endorse any of these products and use all of them. So I was expecting to see a well thought out argument for or against the manufacturers. When you listed multiple quotes and took the side AGAINST Apple products in all of them, your line of discussion falls more into the category of propaganda than persuasion. Just saying...

 

Propaganda gets a bad rap because of the "war" connotations. It's simply the deliberate attempt to influence attitudes or behaviors by manipulating communication. I would say that your post fell into that category quite nicely.

 

There's a little "Communication" lesson for everyone (obviously tongue in cheek) for those that like to learn something new everyday.

[VinylMan]

Well regardless of which choice has been made, IPad or Android, are all of you who use it using it also to play backing tracks? If not what are you using to play your backing tracks?

Personally I don't have a great need for a device for set-lists, chords, lyrics, etc although it would be nice if what I used for my backing tracks could also have that capability. I just want something reliable and crash-proof to use to play backing tracks.

[Potts]

 

Well regardless of which choice has been made, IPad or Android, are all of you who use it using it also to play backing tracks? If not what are you using to play your backing tracks? Personally I don't have a great need for a device for set-lists, chords, lyrics, etc although it would be nice if what I used for my backing tracks could also have that capability. I just want something reliable and crash-proof to use to play backing tracks.

 

 

I'd just run a laptop then. I had one forever but I wanted something less profile so I ended up with the Ipad.

[EightString]

Well regardless of which choice has been made, IPad or Android, are all of you who use it using it also to play backing tracks? If not what are you using to play your backing tracks? Personally I don't have a great need for a device for set-lists, chords, lyrics, etc although it would be nice if what I used for my backing tracks could also have that capability. I just want something reliable and crash-proof to use to play backing tracks.

 

 

I use an iPad running AmpKit+ to both serve as my virtual guitar rig, and to play backing tracks. Backing track playback is built into the app.

 

[Dingoist]

Funny, my last tablet was an Asus Transformer, until it took a skydive from my music stand to the concrete floor when checking the hockey score during practice one night.

 

I like Apple, but don't like Apple. I like Google but don't like Google. Different reasons, but it's the open/closed. Apple, iOS and such. The hardware is controlled, pieces are licensed. You end up with things like amp kit and decent mounting brackets and adaptors. Android? Everyone has their own size, form factor, screen. Vendors can't make as much making an "android" device because of the fragmentation, extra support costs, etc. But it's more open, though your data is being farmed (Google is a little scary about how much they farm on you). Apple, well there is the "apple tax" and the iSheeple trend (which I've noticed here on this thread). Security is a thorny issue because there neither Android nor Apple are really secure. To think Apple is more secure is a bit of delusion.

 

So what devil do you go with? The one the does the job for you.

 

I also have a Blackberry Playbook, which has become my primary tablet since the 10" android took the fall and shattered the screen. But not necessarily for music apps, for my needs the android did fine though I have been contemplating if I ever ended up with extra cash (ha!) I'd check out an iPad, but I think a looper pedal will come first.

 

I'm back to memorizing the songs in my binder, and ditching the music stand entirely as a crutch.

[CliffordN]

Most of this is over my head, so I'm having the techie in the family weigh in, to see if she can get me onboard, and using these tools. After that, I may have a few questions about practical use, and I sure hope I can understand what yall give me for answers!

[Mike McLaughlin]

I just placed an order for another Acer A500 (dual core w/16g internal) refurbed for $200 since my wife doesn't like me using hers. I will still gig with my laptop running Sonar, but will also do acoustic stuff without tracks using the tablet.

 

No matter what tablet you use, I found this site that has tablet mounts for every situation, and thought I would share. http://www.mountguys.com/category_s/1836.htm

[jwlussow]

I'm sorry I ruffled some feathers! Apple is fabulous, nothing else compares

 

No. You were just stating untruths and some lurkers here might believe what you said. Personal preference is one thing but stating an opinion as fact can make it difficult to get through the FUD. I used to be an IT manager at a large engineering firm with offices in many states. I had to support Windows, Linux & Mac. Windows was the most closed of any of the operating systems. I actually like Windows 7 but some of your opinions came across as facts. Some of those "facts" were untrue.

 

Android is a great OS but it is very fragmented. Some versions have support for things that other versions don't and not all versions are capable of running all hardware. If you find an Android tablet that you like that is awesome. If you find an iPad that you like, that is awesome. I was just trying to separate the opinions from the facts.

[Mike McLaughlin]

No. You were just stating untruths and some lurkers here might believe what you said. Personal preference is one thing but stating an opinion as fact can make it difficult to get through the FUD. I used to be an IT manager at a large engineering firm with offices in many states. I had to support Windows, Linux & Mac. Windows was the most closed of any of the operating systems. I actually like Windows 7 but some of your opinions came across as facts. Some of those "facts" were untrue. Android is a great OS but it is very fragmented. Some versions have support for things that other versions don't and not all versions are capable of running all hardware. If you find an Android tablet that you like that is awesome. If you find an iPad that you like, that is awesome. I was just trying to separate the opinions from the facts.

 

Harrumph!

Unlax man! What I said was true in my eyes, obviously not yours. That's why Baskin Robbins make 32 flavors. Some people only like vanilla.

[jwlussow]

 

Harrumph! Unlax man! What I said was true in my eyes, obviously not yours. That's why Baskin Robbins make 32 flavors. Some people only like vanilla.

 

 

Thanks for understanding my point. The "in your eyes" was left out of all your other comments. If I say "the Beatles suck" I am stating it as fact. If I say "I think the Beatles suck" then I am stating opinion. Not sure if you noticed the difference but it is an important one. While we are just having a conversation, some people come here to learn and we, at a minimum, owe them the truth. Opinions are fine if stated as opinions. Trying to pass opinions off as facts is where I call a spade a spade.

 

You can believe the sky is green but that doesn't make it green. Just trying to keep it real. That's all. Doesn't matter if we are talking Bose or Apple. There is truth and there is opinion.

[Mike McLaughlin]

Thanks for understanding my point. The "in your eyes" was left out of all your other comments. If I say "the Beatles suck" I am stating it as fact. If I say "I think the Beatles suck" then I am stating opinion. Not sure if you noticed the difference but it is an important one. While we are just having a conversation, some people come here to learn and we, at a minimum, owe them the truth. Opinions are fine if stated as opinions. Trying to pass opinions off as facts is where I call a spade a spade. You can believe the sky is green but that doesn't make it green. Just trying to keep it real. That's all. Doesn't matter if we are talking Bose or Apple. There is truth and there is opinion.

Seriously??? Opinions are like assholes, everyone's got one and they all stink.

Just because you think it's so, does not make it fact.

Why don't we just agree to disagree and leave it at that!

[chemikool]

I don't care what you say about any of the products. I simply like to pick apart people's words and meanings for fun sometimes.

Likewise - Glad I could provide you some entertainment.

Aristotle had a theory of persuasion- one of the aspects of persuasion is Ethos, or one's "credibility or authority". You attempted to show Ethos in this discussion by stating that you don't endorse any of these products and use all of them. So I was expecting to see a well thought out argument for or against the manufacturers. When you listed multiple quotes and took the side AGAINST Apple products in all of them, your line of discussion falls more into the category of propaganda than persuasion. Just saying...

Strawman

Propaganda gets a bad rap because of the "war" connotations. It's simply the deliberate attempt to influence attitudes or behaviors by manipulating communication. I would say that your post fell into that category quite nicely.

Godwin

There's a little "Communication" lesson for everyone (obviously tongue in cheek) for those that like to learn something new everyday.

Confuscious say Everything has its beauty but not everyone sees it.
I'm still asking you (collective you) to refute the points I made. Please stick to verifiable facts.

There is truth and there is opinion.

Since my statements differed from others, some people put my statements into the opinion category. I'm still waiting on anyone to refute my points...I'll be waiting a LONG time, won't I? You guys aren't really interested in an honest debate; you're looking for validation for choices.

[Potts]

 

While we are just having a conversation, some people come here to learn and we, at a minimum, owe them the truth. Opinions are fine if stated as opinions. Trying to pass opinions off as facts is where I call a spade a spade.

 

 

I'd have to agree. I'm not ragging on Mike but I have a huge problem when people pass opinion as fact in any area that interests me.

[chemikool]

I'm still asking Darrell - what did I say was fact, when it was really opinion?

[Potts]

Likewise - Glad I could provide you some entertainment. Strawman Godwin Confuscious say Everything has its beauty but not everyone sees it. I'm still asking you (collective you) to refute the points I made. Please stick to verifiable facts. Since my statements differed from others, some people put my statements into the opinion category. I'm still waiting on anyone to refute my points...I'll be waiting a LONG time, won't I? You guys aren't really interested in an honest debate; you're looking for validation for choices.

 

See above statements regarding presenting truth as facts...that's all I got.

[chemikool]

It's really easy to say someone is full of crap - much, much harder to prove it - thank you for proving my point.

 

I'll expand it to anyone else - please show me where my statements are opinion and not fact. I'll be here waiting..........

[Mike McLaughlin]

 

While we are just having a conversation, some people come here to learn and we, at a minimum, owe them the truth. Opinions are fine if stated as opinions. Trying to pass opinions off as facts is where I call a spade a spade.

 

 

 

I'd have to agree. I'm not ragging on Mike but I have a huge problem when people pass opinion as fact in any area that interests me.

 

So why are you two here stating opinions as fact, and pooh poohing other opinions?

 

Why don't you guys go point to point with Chemicool?

 

I don't have the energy, time, or interest in persuading other folks on which way to go. You can't have a meaningful discussion on the merits of anything, if you dismiss the opposing side as opinion, while holding your own opinion as fact.

[Potts]

No..that's not how I debate. I haven't presented anything here as fact. I have no idea what you're talking about Mike. I think that EVERYTHING I've posted here is all opinion- both in this thread and the other IPad thread. I don't know enough about tablets or IPads to present anything as fact.

[Potts]

Just because I don't like being called out I figure I'd quote everything that I posted in this thread. I stopped after I realized that I didn't present any facts at all in this thread.

 

 

 

Yeah I played again tonight with it below the mic and I think it'll work out fine there. I still cant "fly" around on it as fast as I want but it wouldn't matter where I put it. That was an open mic I hosted for June and it had a house PA. That's another thread...lol. I forgot to post my 30 day Open Mic gig. I had to set the Bose controller off to the side tonight- I don't know where to put it now.

 

[Mike McLaughlin]

 

No..that's not how I debate. I haven't presented anything here as fact. I have no idea what you're talking about Mike. I think that EVERYTHING I've posted here is all opinion- both in this thread and the other IPad thread. I don't know enough about tablets or IPads to present anything as fact.

 

Not entirely directed at you Darrell, you agreed and it put you in the crossfire. I feel the same as you about my opinions, as well as anybody else's opinions on the internet.

[Potts]

Dear Mike,

You're one of the good ones.

Your Pal,

Darrell

[chemikool]

And...just so we're clear...this is an easily verifiable fact - I said:

I would like you all to know that I in NO WAY endorse Apple, Microsoft or Google.

And then I preceded to list a bunch of things that do not endorse Apple, Microsoft or Google.

Then I was Strawmanned and Godwinned for not endorsing Apple, when my original statement said I don't endorse them. :poke:

OK - here is my parallel argument. Darrell you live in NY. I HATE the Yankees - and I do mean HATE the Yankees. It's baseball, so there is no basis in reality, only feelings. But I still despise them. And I always will! Nothing you could say would ever sway me from that.

I really do get the feeling that a lot of people feel the same way about the technology choices, and I'm no different there either. All computers are "fast enough" to get the job done these days, so for me or you (collective you) to try to justify our choices is kind of irrelevant. It comes down to personal choice. I would take the Mets over the Yanks any day...and there is no basis in reality as to why that is.

[chemikool]

Well golly, I guess I have to assume that you, Darrell, think I'm one of the bad ones.
Thanks for that and have a nice day!