Help pick a PA system

[Raskolnikovs axe]

Hi guys - I need a new PA system for reherasals and small gigs (stuff like houseparty shows where there won't be any sound equipment.) I play punk/rock music in a four piece band. I have mics, stands, and cables. I would like at least 8, preferably 10 channels in case we decide to mic drums, and monitors are definitely a requirement. My starting budget is around $2000 and I'll be able to add more as time goes by. I've been considering a Carvin package system (the one that has a 12 channel powered mixer with 3 333 watt amps-2 for mains and one for monitors, but I am totally open to suggestion. Portability is a big plus. Thanks much!

[RainsongDR1000]

Carvins have a lot going for them in th4 bang for the buck dept. IMHO. Others here will agree, others will disagree. At least they are made in the USA. I've used a smaller Carvin system for 3 years now and haven't had a single problem (wait, I take that back! a plastic knob fell off and Carvins sent me 3 free ones!)

I haven't had any personal experience with the model you are thinking of, but I've considered it. Also considerd going the rack route with a C844 mixer and DCM600's or 1000's for amps. That way you can add other stuff like compressors

or EQ's in the future. For speakers, I'm not very knowledgable. Others here are!

[dboomer]

With $2k I think the most bang for the buck would be bi-amped speakers (Mackie SRM450s, JBL Eons, etc) and a small mixer, Mackie, A&H, Spirit etc. Don't bother with out board boxes yet ... spend ALL the $$$ for mixer and powered speakers. If you decide you're gonna mic drums, get out your checkbook and buy the matching powered subs and some comp/limiters.

[moody]

 

Originally posted by dboomer With $2k I think the most bang for the buck would be bi-amped speakers (Mackie SRM450s, JBL Eons, etc) and a small mixer, Mackie, A&H, Spirit etc.

 

 

Errr.... Biamped?? I may be wrong but I don't think that's the right term for that situation.

[B. Adams]

Well, they are technically i-amped, as they have a seperate HF amp. But I would probably stick with the standard terminology of "Active" or "Powered" speakers.

 

And I'll go ahead and recommend Yorkville NX550P's over Mackie or JBL powered speakers.

[Craig Vecchione]

I can't imagine a $2000 system loud enough for punk that includes monitors.

 

 

People, stop thinking you can do PA for a grand or a couple of grand. Please. If it could be done, nobody would be spending 15K just to get started.

[Shovelhead]

 

Originally posted by Craigv I can't imagine a $2000 system loud enough for punk that includes monitors. People, stop thinking you can do PA for a grand or a couple of grand. Please. If it could be done, nobody would be spending 15K just to get started.

 

 

Depends on the gig. We've been playing straight-ahead rock for the last 2 years on a Carvin PA (the powered PA1200 and 2 mains, and 3 monitors). The clubs we play are about 200 seaters. We've been doing just fine. 15k just to get started? Not in my situation.

[franchelB]

I don't think a Carvin system is a bad idea. But I think a Yamaha system would even be better.

I also don't think powered speakers is a good idea for punk rock music.

[Craig Vecchione]

 

Originally posted by Shovelhead Depends on the gig. We've been playing straight-ahead rock for the last 2 years on a Carvin PA (the powered PA1200 and 2 mains, and 3 monitors). The clubs we play are about 200 seaters. We've been doing just fine. 15k just to get started? Not in my situation.

 

 

I didn't say you need 15K to get started. I said that nobody would be spending that kind of money if a thousand bucks would buy a decent system.

[Shovelhead]

 

Originally posted by Craigv I didn't say you need 15K to get started. I said that nobody would be spending that kind of money if a thousand bucks would buy a decent system.

 

 

I agree.

 

But, it still just depends on the gig. In my situation, a pro system would be like buying a Ferarri to go to the grocery store. However, I'd also never show up to Laguna Seca raceway driving my Chevy Blazer either.

 

A pro show definitely needs pro equipment, and 1k won't even buy a pair of killer monitors. Our little corner bars wouldn't know a great sound system if it bit 'em on the butt, tho. The cheapo Carvin does those kind of places just fine.

[Rbts]

IF you are going to keep doing this music thing.... and IF you are wanting to build your own PA (yes, "build" is maybe the right word) ...

 

THEN it would be smart to really be careful about how you spend your money... because once you spend it it is gone?

 

Most people can not afford to go out and really buy all the stuff they want right off the bat, so just try to make sure that whatever you DO BUY to get along on for now, is either something that you are willing to toss away later, or (A MUCH BETTER IDEA...) is something that will fit into your long range plans.

 

There are many ways to skin a cat, and many ways to set up a decent sound stage...? but make sure that you use one that does make sense.

 

$ 2,000 is not very much money for a full PA, and if you try to build a full PA for $ 2,000, you are not going to have "much"of a PA.

 

$ 15,000 on the other hand would buy a pretty darn nice PA I bet.

 

You don't really have a full PA until you have a good bottom end, and $2,000 might not even buy a good bottom end. For $ 2,000, you better not worry about the bottom end... just get something that will still work when you DO get some bottom end. You probably won't get any monitors either, and you will need to use something else for monitors untill you can get some of those as well.

 

Find a little more money, get and Allen Heath Mix Whiz, and two yorkville nx 550P active speakers...and you will be glad you did. (cost so far: $ 2,300). As soon as possible (or even now on a credit card) get one additional yorkville nx 550P to use as a monitor speaker. (Cost now: $2,950). Now you can Gig, and the stuff you have will be easy to use, and it will work well. Later, buy a sub woofer system, and 2 more monitors.... now you have a kicking bottom end, and you can really hear pretty darn well on stage, there are a few different monitor mixes that are available and such. Cost now: about $ 6,000. Later get three more of the yorkville nx 550 p one each additional for the FOH, and one to carry as a spare (eventually something will happen to something?). Cost now $ 8,000 about. Now you are kicking. Your system is fairly light weight, it is not that hard to carry, it is fairly easy to set up and run, it is reliable, and it sounds good.

 

Throw in $ 2,500 worth of cables, stands, mics, EQ devices, and a compressor, and i guesswe have busted the $ 10,000 mark, but we can pretty much stop there.... unless you need some cases or a trailor to haul it around in?

 

Hmmm... forgive me.... that was fun though. Honestly, there are too many people here who know so much more than me... but i have learned to be careful, and make sure that the things you buy really do fit into your long range plans?

[GCDEF]

 

Originally posted by Craigv I can't imagine a $2000 system loud enough for punk that includes monitors. People, stop thinking you can do PA for a grand or a couple of grand. Please. If it could be done, nobody would be spending 15K just to get started.

 

 

Remember he said "rehearsals" and "house parties".

[Craig Vecchione]

 

Originally posted by GCDEF Remember he said "rehearsals" and "house parties".

 

 

Yup. So that eliminates the need for quality?

[GCDEF]

 

Originally posted by Craigv Yup. So that eliminates the need for quality?

 

 

Actually you said "I can't imagine a $2000 system loud enough for punk that includes monitors.", loud being the operative word.

 

Sometimes I think you guys are way out of touch with typical working bar bands.

 

A lot of us just do it as a hobby and depend on day jobs for income. To think a band will spend $15,000 on a PA when that band may not even earn that in a year is unrealistic.

 

Most of us want something that is portable and can be set up in a reasonable amount of time. It should have a small footprint as stage space in a lot of clubs is extremely limited. I didn't even have room for my floor monitor at a club last week.

 

Most us don't want to spend 6 hours hauling and setting up our PA. At 2am after playing for 4 or 5 hours, most of us don't want to spend 4 hours tearing it down.

 

Most clubs will not tolerate anything over low to moderate volume. I've yet to play a club that didn't provide its own PA where my 200 watt per channel mixer ran out of power. Never, hasn't happened. Never even had it turned all the way up. Same goes for subs. Most clubs don't want glasses rattling off tables and customers running for the door with their ears bleeding.

 

It is easy to buy a PA that will work very well and sound very good for typical club use for a few thousand dollars. Granted, if AC/DC was coming to town you may need a little more, but for most of us, these expensive beheemoth's you guys seem to think are necessary, would be pretty much useless.

[Craig Vecchione]

 

Originally posted by GCDEF Actually you said "I can't imagine a $2000 system loud enough for punk that includes monitors.", loud being the operative word. Sometimes I think you guys are way out of touch with typical working bar bands. A lot of us just do it as a hobby and depend on day jobs for income. To think a band will spend $15,000 on a PA when that band may not even earn that in a year is unrealistic. Most of us want something that is portable and can be set up in a reasonable amount of time. It should have a small footprint as stage space in a lot of clubs is extremely limited. I didn't even have room for my floor monitor at a club last week. Most us don't want to spend 6 hours hauling and setting up our PA. At 2am after playing for 4 or 5 hours, most of us don't want to spend 4 hours tearing it down. Most clubs will not tolerate anything over low to moderate volume. I've yet to play a club that didn't provide its own PA where my 200 watt per channel mixer ran out of power. Never, hasn't happened. Never even had it turned all the way up. Same goes for subs. Most clubs don't want glasses rattling off tables and customers running for the door with their ears bleeding. It is easy to buy a PA that will work very well and sound very good for typical club use for a few thousand dollars. Granted, if AC/DC was coming to town you may need a little more, but for most of us, these expensive beheemoth's you guys seem to think are necessary, would be pretty much useless.

 

 

Punk is loud. For the third or fourth time, I never said you had to spend $15K, but I'll stand on my opinion that $2000 is not going to buy a decent system with monitors for this requirement.

[DaBender]

I absolutely second everything GCDEF just said, but then, I'm a blues guy, not a death-metal thrasher. I remember when Commander Cody & his Lost Planet Airmen came to town about a decade ago. Unfortunately, I missed the show, but a friend of mine with a music store rented the P.A. equipment to them. "I don't know where the hell they think they're playing," he said, "they rented enough gear for the Civic Center". I think thems that play with big toys get used to playing with big toys, and use them even when it's total overkill.

[GCDEF]

 

Originally posted by Craigv Punk is loud. For the third or fourth time, I never said you had to spend $15K, but I'll stand on my opinion that $2000 is not going to buy a decent system with monitors for this requirement.

 

 

You certainly implied it when you said "People, stop thinking you can do PA for a grand or a couple of grand. Please. If it could be done, nobody would be spending 15K just to get started."

 

There's only so loud you can go in a house or rehearsal studio before ear drums rupture. You can get to that point easily for $2,000.

[rangerkarlos]

Aw geez...

 

mackie 808- around $800

2- yorkie designed and mftg 15's- around $500

2- used sonic 12 wedges- around $250

Misc mics, cables, stands, speaker poles- around $500

Total $2050.

 

 

My system is indecent and I can't even turn it up beyond 50% in the rooms I play.

 

I'm a failure.

[tlbonehead]

Originally posted by GCDEF You certainly implied it when you said "People, stop thinking you can do PA for a grand or a couple of grand. Please. If it could be done, nobody would be spending 15K just to get started." There's only so loud you can go in a house or rehearsal studio before ear drums rupture. You can get to that point easily for $2,000.

Also small shows was mentioned. And the poster also said something about running drums through it in the future,which usually includes kick drum. That would mean subs. So if you are planning to get a PA for vocals that has about 500 watts,adding subs for the kick would mean adding another 1000 watts or so for balance between the two. It can certainly be done for under 15K is you are a wise shopper and know your equipment. However at 2K,you had better have gotten some amazing deals in the used area.

[fossil]

 

Originally posted by Raskolnikovs axe I have mics, stands, and cables. I would like at least 8, preferably 10 channels in case we decide to mic drums, and monitors are definitely a requirement. My starting budget is around $2000 and I'll be able to add more as time goes by .... I am totally open to suggestion. Portability is a big plus. Thanks much!

 

 

I don't know, sounds pretty freaking reasonable to me. He offered up a very reasonable starting budget (especially considering all the times we have seen "I need a full PA, 16 channels with everything mic'ed for under $800") and has some equipment already. I see no need to put a guy down for "only" having 2k to get started.

 

If its just for house parties and rehearsels maybe you can get by with just 1 monitor to start and a poweramp with enough power to get by for now that will eventually be used to run your monitors when you have more cash to upgrade.

 

monitor: A Yamaha SM12IV on closeout is under $250 new

poweramp: a used QSC RMX 1450 runs around $300-$325 but can be had new for around $350ish if you haggle.

Mixer: Either go the disposable route - Behringer UB1202 Mixer $90 or get something you can grow into like the Peavey RQ2314 $550ish.

Mains: If you went the disposable mixer route spend a little more on the mains. 2 Yorkville E12's are $900 a pair. If you spent more on the mixer 2 more SM12IV's wouldn't be the worst choice at $450 a pair. The idea is to get something you can use for mains now and monitors as your system grows. There are also other decent choices for budget monitors, do a search on this forum. Also looking for used equipment can save some cash.

left over cash: dbx 231 2x31 EQ - $200

 

Thats just one example of a way to go, others have given you other good STARTING points. The idea is to buy things now that are still useful as your system grows.

[dboomer]

 

Originally posted by GCDEF There's only so loud you can go in a house or rehearsal studio before ear drums rupture. You can get to that point easily for $2,000.

 

 

You can get to that point with an $89 boom box. There's a whole lot more to PA systems than loud!

 

Let's turn this around a little. I've got $2k for a car ... what should I get? What should I get if I have to drive 100 miles across Death Valley everyday at noon? Well new cars are $20K. Sure $2K will get you something but how reliable, how safe, how polluting (this is where loud comes in) and how many shades of rust tone will there be. It's all relative. Some will ride the bus for $1 some will buy a $2K clunker, some will sign their life away and make payments ... there is no one answer that fits everyone.

 

It's not hard to spend $10K for a Bar Band setup (or $20K for that fact). The best advice I know is to get some real schooling on how to run whatever you get 'cuz most don't have a clue (come on, you know your VCR blinks 12!)

 

Maybe you should buy one or two good pieces and make friends with somebody who has a few more

[dboomer]

 

Originally posted by moody Errr.... Biamped?? I may be wrong but I don't think that's the right term for that situation.

 

 

It IS the correct term. There are two discreet power amps, one for lows and one for highs with an electronic crossover (and a bunch of other things including limiters, filters, phase alignment and EQ)

[B. Adams]

 

Originally posted by dboomer It IS the correct term. There are two discreet power amps, one for lows and one for highs with an electronic crossover (and a bunch of other things including limiters, filters, phase alignment and EQ)

 

 

Yeah, but generally when speaking of "Biamped" speakers, you're referring to externally biamplified speakers, and generally when you're referring to active or powered speakers you call them active or powered. To call them biamped is technically correct, but doesn't really distinguish them from passive biamped speakers. And since I don't know of any powered speaker that is not biamped, it is also redundant to refer to them as such.

 

That's just my opinion though.

[fossil]

 

Originally posted by dboomer Let's turn this around a little. I've got $2k for a car ... what should I get?

 

 

To me its not the same thing, having 2k to purchase the beginnings of a PA system would equate to having 5-6k or more to put towards the purchase of a vehicle. Both seem reasonable to me but of course you are absolutely right ... no one answer fits everyone.

[moody]

 

Originally posted by dboomer It IS the correct term. There are two discreet power amps, one for lows and one for highs with an electronic crossover (and a bunch of other things including limiters, filters, phase alignment and EQ)

 

 

Yes, but it is the correct term for several situations.

 

Buy a stereo power amp, a crossover and a couple of speaker cabinets and a couple of subs and you have a bi-amped system - but it's not what you were looking at. Also, not many people realise that active speakers are biamped (and most couldn't care less if they do know).

 

Active speakers would have been the correct thing to say in that situation, or possibly biamped actice speakers.