Members tats_dragon Posted May 26, 2007 Members Share Posted May 26, 2007 Anyone use one of these? http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/CEL2a/I've got a chance to pick it up used for pretty cheap. Jun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tats_dragon Posted May 28, 2007 Author Members Share Posted May 28, 2007 Apparently no one has used one? Seems like the Peavey graphic EQs gets some love here.I am assuming it would be worth $100 to try this comp which usually sells for $300. Jun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted May 28, 2007 Members Share Posted May 28, 2007 Apparently no one has used one? Seems like the Peavey graphic EQs gets some love here.I am assuming it would be worth $100 to try this comp which usually sells for $300.Jun Maybe it's $100 because nobody was buying them at $300??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted May 28, 2007 Members Share Posted May 28, 2007 Apparently no one has used one? Seems like the Peavey graphic EQs gets some love here.I am assuming it would be worth $100 to try this comp which usually sells for $300.JunWhat are your plans for it? It seems like a decent piece from my limited experience. But my thoughts are that there are about 5x as many compressors sold overall than are really needed or actually used effectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Marko Posted May 28, 2007 Members Share Posted May 28, 2007 Please don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted May 28, 2007 Members Share Posted May 28, 2007 Yes, I have 8 channels in one system, and 4 channels in another system but I find that for a lot of shows I just don't find it an essential component. IF you have a real need for one, then by all means learn how to use one and buy one that suits your needs... not just because it costs $100. That's the single worst reason to buy anything IMO. I have seen more mixes screwed up due to poor use of a compressor (or use of one inappropriately where there was no need) than mixes screwed up by lack of a compressor. Just getting the very basics together in a mix seems to be a challange for a good number of "sound guys". Therefore, if you choose to "need" one, learn all you can about how they work, why they are used, how they are used effectively and most importantly how/where they are NOT used. Then buy a unit that fills the requirements of that need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted May 28, 2007 Members Share Posted May 28, 2007 Just so you know ... it uses the same "That corp" VCA chip ... the one that the company that everybody loves uses. It has a unique feature for vocals ... a high pass filter is built into the side chain. That way all the low frequency stage gack doesn't trip the trigger and fire off the compressor. It just follows the vocalist (just like it should) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted May 29, 2007 CMS Author Share Posted May 29, 2007 Please don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Marko Posted May 29, 2007 Members Share Posted May 29, 2007 Folks here often recommend against compressors as a "just because" purchase. It seems pretty common for newbies to be sold comps as must-haves, and it's extremely rare for them to know how to use one or why. The range of wrong assumptions of how a comp works is pretty staggering. That explains it well. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tats_dragon Posted May 29, 2007 Author Members Share Posted May 29, 2007 Just wanted opinions since I saw one cheap.....not a lecture on compression. Jun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted May 29, 2007 Members Share Posted May 29, 2007 Just wanted opinions since I saw one cheap.....not a lecture on compression. Jun Jun, You are not the only one who may want to learn something here on this forum. The comments, while seeming personal to you, or you are taking as a "lecture" applies to many folks here... some who have already bought a compressor as a "must have" and now are trying to figure out WHY it was a must have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted May 29, 2007 Members Share Posted May 29, 2007 Just wanted opinions since I saw one cheap.....not a lecture on compression. Jun That's why I asked what your intention was. Some folks prefer different models based on the intended use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tats_dragon Posted May 29, 2007 Author Members Share Posted May 29, 2007 vocals, bass, lavalier mic, etc.... whatever the job might call for. My goal for live sound is to treat it as if I'm mixing them down to CD. I've even used my Akai DPS24 as FOH and two monitor sends when I was recording a few live shows. Jun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted May 29, 2007 CMS Author Share Posted May 29, 2007 Just wanted opinions since I saw one cheap.....not a lecture on compression. Jun So you got some added value. The glass is half-full. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted May 29, 2007 CMS Author Share Posted May 29, 2007 Just so you know ... it uses the same "That corp" VCA chip ... the one that the company that everybody loves uses. It has a unique feature for vocals ... a high pass filter is built into the side chain. That way all the low frequency stage gack doesn't trip the trigger and fire off the compressor. It just follows the vocalist (just like it should) To what freq is it set? Or is it variable? That's a nice bit of added value...you guys always seem to add nice features you don't see on other products. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted May 29, 2007 Members Share Posted May 29, 2007 vocals, bass, lavalier mic, etc.... whatever the job might call for. My goal for live sound is to treat it as if I'm mixing them down to CD. I've even used my Akai DPS24 as FOH and two monitor sends when I was recording a few live shows. Jun This goal, while good in theory may have conflicting requirements especially where the lavalier mic is concerned. Any gain before feedback issues that you may already have (or being close to) will be exaggerated by the use of compression in that a compressor being a variable gain device shifts the ratio between maximum output and the point of feedback down by exactly the amount of compression occurring in dB. This may be a BIG problem or it may just be a potential irritation depending on the overall GBF of the system. Unless the system operator is aware of the effect, it can create huge operational problems where non existed before. Hence my previous "lecture" about really understanding how a compressor works in CONTEXT with the overall system. The result may be that the problems outweigh any benefit. For recording, which is an open loop process, does not suffer from this phenomona. Live sound is a closed loop process, which falls into classic stability criteria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tats_dragon Posted May 29, 2007 Author Members Share Posted May 29, 2007 Agedhorse,You remind me of a soundguy around here with a lot of technical info but can't mix due to his tin ear. Is it wrong to use a compressor to tame the few instances the speaker looks down to read something so the recording doesn't overload? Jun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soul-x Posted May 29, 2007 Members Share Posted May 29, 2007 Is it wrong to use a compressor to tame the few instances the speaker looks down to read something so the recording doesn't overload? Jun Nothing wrong with it -- just be aware of the reduction in GBF you will be dealing with. That is often the larger hurdle in live use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted May 29, 2007 Members Share Posted May 29, 2007 Agedhorse,You remind me of a soundguy around here with a lot of technical info but can't mix due to his tin ear. Is it wrong to use a compressor to tame the few instances the speaker looks down to read something so the recording doesn't overload? Jun Have you heard Andy mix in a live setting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted May 29, 2007 Members Share Posted May 29, 2007 Agedhorse,You remind me of a soundguy around here with a lot of technical info but can't mix due to his tin ear. Is it wrong to use a compressor to tame the few instances the speaker looks down to read something so the recording doesn't overload? Jun Now what did I deserve to receive this kind of comment? I don't think that without hearing my mixes, you are in much of a position to critique them are you? Just a hint... not only do I have plenty of technical info (it's my profession and I'm an electrical engineer who designs products for THIS industry) but I have plenty of high level mixing experience (like 30 years) behind me too. In fact, I may mix for as many people in 1 event than you do in a whole year. Nown what I did say is that there MAY be problems that SOME users are not aware of, and sometimes a compressor solution can create a bigger problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tats_dragon Posted May 29, 2007 Author Members Share Posted May 29, 2007 Now what did I deserve to receive this kind of comment? I don't think that without hearing my mixes, you are in much of a position to critique them are you? Just a hint... not only do I have plenty of technical info (it's my profession and I'm an electrical engineer who designs products for THIS industry) but I have plenty of high level mixing experience (like 30 years) behind me too. In fact, I may mix for as many people in 1 event than you do in a whole year.Nown what I did say is that there MAY be problems that SOME users are not aware of, and sometimes a compressor solution can create a bigger problem. No I haven't heard you mix but you haven't heard me mix either. You assumed I had feedback problems that I'm trying to remedy with a comp? Is everyone here under 10,000 post a moron until proven otherwise? Jun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted May 29, 2007 Members Share Posted May 29, 2007 No I haven't heard you mix but you haven't heard me mix either. You assumed I had feedback problems that I'm trying to remedy with a comp? Is everyone here under 10,000 post a moron until proven otherwise?JunYou were asked early in this thread what your intended use for this piece was. You opted not to answer the question until way later and then in a very defensive manner. If you had specified what you intended to do with the comp initially or early in the thread, you would have gotten more precise answers and fewer generalities concerning compressor usage and mis-usage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted May 30, 2007 Members Share Posted May 30, 2007 No I haven't heard you mix but you haven't heard me mix either. You assumed I had feedback problems that I'm trying to remedy with a comp? Is everyone here under 10,000 post a moron until proven otherwise?Jun No, I did NOT assume you had feedback problems, nor did I assume you were trying to remedy feedback problems with a comp... but I did expand on these issues or the other "morons" on this forum. In addition, I never said anything about your ability to mix did I? Why did you feel compelled to say I reminded you of a guy with a tin ear? Appears that you are having a problem with the language... or are you just being a simple jerk? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tats_dragon Posted May 30, 2007 Author Members Share Posted May 30, 2007 80,000 post between the two of you guys.....you must know what you're talking aboutI simply wanted opinions but got a know-it-all that has never used the specific model but needs to spew the right and wrongs of compression.nice friendly attitudes guys. Jun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted May 30, 2007 Members Share Posted May 30, 2007 I simply wanted opinions but got a know-it-all that has never used the specific model but needs to spew the right and wrongs of compression.nice friendly attitudes guys.Jun YOU aren't the only guy reading the responses, and most of us regulars here are aware of this and try to structure our responses so that others can benefit as well. We didn't spew any rights or wrongs about compression, we gave INFORMATION about how compression can help or hurt depending on the application. We also gave warnings about things that can adversely affect other parts of the reproduction chain that should be considered as OTHERS experiment with compresors. The world doesn't revolve around YOU Mr. Jun. There are hundreds of others who participate and read these post also. We were addressing them, since you already seem to know the answers to your own questions. Oh, and speaking of friendly attitudes, it was YOU who came HERE to OUR forum, and didn't like how OUR responses were structured. YOU cop an attitude to US, and then claim WE have an attitude problem. Hey, I'll bet there are better places for guys like you to hang out. Why not find one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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