Members type2guy Posted November 16, 2007 Members Share Posted November 16, 2007 I've got a 3-way bi-amp set-up. Crowns and Peavey amps. Should I keep the volume on the amps all the way up? Thanks for any help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted November 16, 2007 Members Share Posted November 16, 2007 In general, yes and adjust the balance between bands at the crossover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members type2guy Posted November 16, 2007 Author Members Share Posted November 16, 2007 Cool. thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted November 16, 2007 Members Share Posted November 16, 2007 I've got a 3-way bi-amp set-up. Crowns and Peavey amps.Should I keep the volume on the amps all the way up? Thanks for any help. What's a 3-way bi-amp? Is it two or three? Either way, as Andy said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members type2guy Posted November 16, 2007 Author Members Share Posted November 16, 2007 What's a 3-way bi-amp? Is it two or three? Either way, as Andy said. Hi-mid-lows....separate amps for each. ?Tri-Amp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Square Posted November 16, 2007 Members Share Posted November 16, 2007 List the make and model of each amp and the cabinets you want to power and we can offer you suggestions. The only time I wouldn't run an amp with the knobs on full is if the amp massively exceeds the capabilities of the speaker. You do run into this with High Frequency horns. In our monitor rig, we run the horn amps at 12-o-clock because it cuts back on the background "hiss" in the horns and it makes fine tuning the box easier because small movements on the crossover outputs don;t cause massive changes in the output of the horn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Square Posted November 16, 2007 Members Share Posted November 16, 2007 Hi-mid-lows....separate amps for each. ?Tri-Amp? Yup! 3 way is tri-amp, 4 way is quad-amp, etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted November 16, 2007 Members Share Posted November 16, 2007 3 way can be biamp, if the biamping is between say a sub and a passively crossed over top cabinet. For example the Turbo TMS-2 was available this way, the LF section was one input and the mid-HF section was the other input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members badhabit Posted December 4, 2007 Members Share Posted December 4, 2007 3 way can be biamp, if the biamping is between say a sub and a passively crossed over top cabinet.For example the Turbo TMS-3 was available this way, the LF section was one input and the mid-HF section was the other input. I think this is what I need to do. I picked up a pair of used Bag End TA-15's for a ridicously low price. Since Bag End uses what they refer to as "time-aligned" passive crossovers in these, I don't think I want to by pass these crossovers and tri-amp my system. But I do need to bi-amp between the subs and the Bag Ends. The subs are hand built bass reflex cabs using PAS HL-2880C drivers. I'm thinking an appropriate crossover point would be 120-150 Hz. Yes? So will I need an active crossover or should I try to use a low pass pasive crossover? I'm trying to separate the Bag Ends and the subs at an appropriate crossover point but not separate the mids and highs. Which model crossover would accomplish this? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted December 4, 2007 CMS Author Share Posted December 4, 2007 I think this is what I need to do. I picked up a pair of used Bag End TA-15's for a ridicously low price. Since Bag End uses what they refer to as "time-aligned" passive crossovers in these, I don't think I want to by pass these crossovers and tri-amp my system. But I do need to bi-amp between the subs and the Bag Ends. The subs are hand built bass reflex cabs using PAS HL-2880C drivers. I'm thinking an appropriate crossover point would be 120-150 Hz. Yes? So will I need an active crossover or should I try to use a low pass pasive crossover? I'm trying to separate the Bag Ends and the subs at an appropriate crossover point but not separate the mids and highs. Which model crossover would accomplish this? Thanks. I'd avoid passive crossovers. Any decent active crossover will work. dbx, Rane, Peavey, Ashley, Samson, etc. all have models at various prices depending on your budget. Experiment with the crossing point starting at 90Hz or so, and 'live with' the setting a while before changing to another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted December 4, 2007 Members Share Posted December 4, 2007 The fact that you asked this question would lead me to answer it this way ... yes turn them all the way up. As long as you end up happy with the way you balance out the sound the only penalty of doing it wrong is noise in the system ... which rarely makes any difference in a rock setting. However advanced users do no do it this way. That's almost every mixer in the live sound world is capable of overdriving the amps by 10 - 18 dB. If you turn the amps sensitivity knob down you will get less hiss in the entire system and still comfortably be able to drive them to full with your mixer as someone already posted. You may also have a bigger problem balancing them out because it's likely that both amps do not have the same "gain". Peavey's all have X40 (aka 32 dB gain) but Crown does it differently in different models. If possible I'd set your Crown to the 26dB setting and run the knobs full open and then probably back the Peavey down to match it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dogoth Posted December 5, 2007 Members Share Posted December 5, 2007 3 way can be biamp, if the biamping is between say a sub and a passively crossed over top cabinet.For example the Turbo TMS-2 was available this way, the LF section was one input and the mid-HF section was the other input. Not quite the on the OP's subject but it's interesting none the less. It's all in how you look at it. For me personaly I'd call a system with a passive mid/top box and subs a "two way" system (if the subs were being fed full program through an x-over) (Aux fed subs would only questionably fall into this category). many people would disagree and call this system "full range with subs". If you split the mid/high box of this same system and fed a seperate amp into each component (band passed of course) would you call it "tri amped"? To my logic I would say yes but many would disagree. I'm not sure there's a standard (I guess the thinking is that Subs aren't really part of the system and are just an add on). I've never really understood this. Maybe others here can expand on this. Sorry if I Hijacked the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted December 5, 2007 Members Share Posted December 5, 2007 The "standard" is the number of different bands that different devices reproduce. A 3 way system for instamce may include a sub, low and high regardless of the number of boxes. It may also include a box with a low, mid and high driver. It doesn't matter if the crossovers are active or passive. If a box is actively crossed over between two bands, it's biamp and three bands would be triamp. A 3 way biamp system would generally be assumed to be an active crossover between the lowest band and the next band, and a passive between the mid and top band. These are all general usage conventions. Marketing departments for DJ and bottom feeder crap have distorted these meanings to suit the savvy of their target audience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members badhabit Posted December 5, 2007 Members Share Posted December 5, 2007 Then how do I bi-amp a system using subwoofers and mids/highs that already have passive crossovers for the mids/highs? I want to keep the passive crossover in use. I need to separate (if that is the correct terminology) the lows from the mids/highs. It should be a simple matter but all the active crossovers I see have separate controls for mids/lows and highs. I THINK what I need is a mono crossover that will have a somewhat variable crossover point for the subs and separate line out for the subwoofer amp/s. But on the mid/high side, I do NOT want to separate the mids from the highs. I THINK I need a unit that would simply allow a separate line out for mids/highs with a crossover point to filter out the low freq. that are being handled by the subs. It sounds simple but I'm not seeing the product out there that will do this. Any recommendations? Please advise. Also, sorry if didn't say what I need very well. I'm PA illiterate I just saw this. Will this work for my needs? http://www.artproaudio.com/products.asp?id=17&cat=6&type=83 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted December 5, 2007 CMS Author Share Posted December 5, 2007 Ah, I think you're misunderstanding just one thing...you don't have to use a stereo crossover in stereo, and you don't have to use all of the outputs on a 2, 3 or 4-way crossover. I'd be willing to bet most of the crossovers you've looked at besides the ART will work just fine for your needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members joel77 Posted December 5, 2007 Members Share Posted December 5, 2007 BadHabit, I'm using a DBX 234XL, Stereo 2-3 way/Mono 4 way. This unit can be setup to run either stereo 2 way, stereo 3 way or mono 4 way. I'm actually only using 1/2 of the unit because I run my system in mono. I have it set for 2 way crossover. I have seperate sub boxes and 2 way passive top boxes. The crossover splits the signal into two signals at a selectable frequency point (I have mine set at about 100Hz). Everything below 100Hz goes to my sub amp, everything above goes to the amp for the top boxes. When the signal gets to the top boxes, it's split again at the passive crossover inside the top box. I guess this would be what Andy calls a 3 way bi-amp system. The signal is split 3 ways, but I'm only using 2 amps. HTH Joel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted December 5, 2007 Members Share Posted December 5, 2007 Yes, 3 way biamped is the mode you want to operate in. The active crossover would split between the subs and the mid-highs. You will operate the active crossover in TWO-WAY mode, crossover frequency around 100Hz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 6Imzadi Posted December 6, 2007 Members Share Posted December 6, 2007 Interesting. I guess I have a biamp 4-way system. (oversimplified, however) Crossover is a 2-way crossed at 100hz. The low is going to the subs, and the high is going to the tops, which have passive crossovers in them to cover low mid, high mid, and high horns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members badhabit Posted December 8, 2007 Members Share Posted December 8, 2007 Thanks for the replies. What I noticed about some active crossovers is that they had sub-outs and the lowest cut-off for the stereo channels were around 250 Hz, not low enough to use in the bi-amp manner I needed. So I did order the dbx 223 stereo 2 way, mono three way. $10.00 less than the Art 310. Since I'm running mono, I'll only need one side. I can always by-pass the passive x-overs in the monitors and bi-amp them, using the other side of the 223 x-over. Plus, the 223 still gives me the option of tri-amping my FOH mains if I choose to by-pass the passive crossover in the mids/highs. Only in mono though, which is fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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