Members The Chinese Posted October 11, 2009 Members Share Posted October 11, 2009 So im here at the Jack FM concert. Im enjoying the bands, but i just have to comment on the poor sound... The mids and highs are fine, but they have tje frigging kick drum so loud in the subs it blows out the entire mix. Ive listenes in several spots in the facility, and it all sounds similar. Its not the system, as Eddie Money sounded great, well balanced. Guitars and vocals sound ok. Anyone know what gives at this place? T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rwhealey Posted October 11, 2009 Members Share Posted October 11, 2009 Its not the system, as Eddie Money sounded great, well balanced. Guitars and vocals sound ok. Anyone know what gives at this place? Well then, there's only a couple more options: The band sucks The sound guy sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted October 11, 2009 Members Share Posted October 11, 2009 The sound guy sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted October 11, 2009 Members Share Posted October 11, 2009 The "modern" sound doesn't suit all acts or ears. I personally don't care for kick to be the lead instrument in any mix, but that's just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Chinese Posted October 12, 2009 Author Members Share Posted October 12, 2009 The "modern" sound doesn't suit all acts or ears. I personally don't care for kick to be the lead instrument in any mix, but that's just me. Are you saying that this was deliberate? I hope not. RATT had a bigger kick than PFunk did!!!! However, after I posted, I went down 30 rows and got as close to the soundboard as I could. the Mix was dramatically different... I would say it was much more balanced but it was just so loud I couldn't stay. I can understand why the kick was so loud, everyone's ears were compressing so badly, there's no way anyone could hear the low end. T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted October 12, 2009 CMS Author Share Posted October 12, 2009 Are you saying that this was deliberate? I hope not. RATT had a bigger kick than PFunk did!!!!However, after I posted, I went down 30 rows and got as close to the soundboard as I could. the Mix was dramatically different... I would say it was much more balanced but it was just so loud I couldn't stay. I can understand why the kick was so loud, everyone's ears were compressing so badly, there's no way anyone could hear the low end.T Maybe, I don't know, 30 years ago, it was kinda cool to strut a big system when big systems were rare and extremely expensive. Now it's just stupid to have the mix so loud nobody wants to be there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted October 12, 2009 Members Share Posted October 12, 2009 Maybe, I don't know, 30 years ago, it was kinda cool to strut a big system when big systems were rare and extremely expensive. Now it's just stupid to have the mix so loud nobody wants to be there. I agree with this. Seen the progression and frankly I don't enjoy painful music and I wonder how many folks were happy with the volume or if they had their choice, would they prefer lower? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Chinese Posted October 12, 2009 Author Members Share Posted October 12, 2009 I agree with this. Seen the progression and frankly I don't enjoy painful music and I wonder how many folks were happy with the volume or if they had their choice, would they prefer lower? To be honest, I didn't see many people who seemd to be in pain or discomfort. But I would cut it 3-6dB (depended on act) if it was me. Hearing Damage was definitely occuring within minutes up there in front. Do FOH engineers wear earplugs? I can't imagine these guys lasting for more than a couple years at those SPL's. T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted October 12, 2009 Members Share Posted October 12, 2009 Some of the FOH guys that have been doing loud shows for along time can be found relying on the system engineers and assistants to help fine tune what they are having trouble hearing. Frankly, if you plan on a long career, take good care of your hearing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sailorman Posted October 12, 2009 Members Share Posted October 12, 2009 reading this thread prompts a question; who decides on the volume, the band or the sound engineer? I've been to concerts that were just so ridiculously loud that it ruined it; and not just my aging ears either, I still remember David Gilmore solo around 1980; just brutal. I also remember concerts where the sound was just primo, set at a comfortable volume with great clarity; Crosby, Stills and Nash was a bit of this, low volume, fabulous sound during the 'acoustic' part, then WAY too loud/smeared during the electric portion. Always been curious who's decision it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members witesol Posted October 12, 2009 Members Share Posted October 12, 2009 Its not the system, as Eddie Money sounded great, well balanced. Guitars and vocals sound ok. T I'll have to tel my buddy who works for Eddie it was cool! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members caseyjf Posted October 13, 2009 Members Share Posted October 13, 2009 Which Verizon Amphitheater? They re-did one not too long ago that Kenny Chesney played at first after its remodeling - I heard on the radio that it was awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WynnD Posted October 13, 2009 Members Share Posted October 13, 2009 Having to wear ear plugs to attend a concert ruins the quality of sound. (Did that at an Earth Wind and Fire concert at Red Rocks.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Chinese Posted October 13, 2009 Author Members Share Posted October 13, 2009 I'll have to tel my buddy who works for Eddie it was cool! Dude, his daughter KICKED ASS!!!! wow. Great voice, stage presence, looks...damn. EM put on a good show and enbraced the audience. was cool. T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Chinese Posted October 13, 2009 Author Members Share Posted October 13, 2009 Which Verizon Amphitheater? They re-did one not too long ago that Kenny Chesney played at first after its remodeling - I heard on the radio that it was awful. It used to be Irvine Meadows in Irvine, CA. T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Special J Posted October 13, 2009 Members Share Posted October 13, 2009 reading this thread prompts a question; who decides on the volume, the band or the sound engineer? I've been to concerts that were just so ridiculously loud that it ruined it; and not just my aging ears either, I still remember David Gilmore solo around 1980; just brutal. I also remember concerts where the sound was just primo, set at a comfortable volume with great clarity; Crosby, Stills and Nash was a bit of this, low volume, fabulous sound during the 'acoustic' part, then WAY too loud/smeared during the electric portion. Always been curious who's decision it is. Ultimately, the band's engineer has the master faders in his hands during the show. I suppose, since the band employs the engineer, they could tell the engineer something like they don't want the sound to exceed 100 db at the FOH desk or something, but I think most bands don't take that hands-on of an approach, instead opting to hire somebody they trust to make that decision for them. Many venues have volume restrictions that they cannot by law exceed. This trumps anybody else's idea of how loud or soft the show should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dangordan Posted October 13, 2009 Members Share Posted October 13, 2009 Crosby, Stills and Nash was a bit of this, low volume, fabulous sound during the 'acoustic' part, then WAY too loud/smeared during the electric portion. Always been curious who's decision it is. I wanted to catch them one more time this past summer. During the acoustic set, the vocals were mud. I could hear thru the mud that they were staying within their limitations and the harmonies were dead on. Still's acoustic was boomy and at times feeding back thru the subs. Went up to the mixer during break and asked "how does it sound up here?" The response was "like 3 old guys who can't sing anymore." Concert before that, guitar bands with the kick dominating 60% of the mix. Could faintly hear guitars, walking around to different locations within the venue. Both nites I paid $200+ to be stressed out. Being at the controls most of the time, you feel like it's your job to easily fix it. I have heard perfectly mixed concerts at this particular venue and am just mind boggled @how some of these guys at the desk are hooked up to mix on the A circuit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WynnD Posted October 14, 2009 Members Share Posted October 14, 2009 Many venues have volume restrictions that they cannot by law exceed. This trumps anybody else's idea of how loud or soft the show should be. When Fiddler's Green pays attention to the local laws and uses their three step time delayed system, there isn't better sound in an outdoor arena anywhere. When they ignore it and run sound only from the sides of the stage, it generally sucks. (Too loud, boomy, too much kick and a boomy bass.) I've seen Cuba Gooding Senior, Emerson Lake and Palmer, The Moody Blues with the Colorado Symphony and Deep Purple. (And a bunch of other bands that I can't remember right now.) Cuba Gooding and the Moody Blues concerts were as good as it gets. Deep Purple and Emerson Lake and Palmer, sound was off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted October 14, 2009 Members Share Posted October 14, 2009 Both nites I paid $200+ to be stressed out. Being at the controls most of the time, you feel like it's your job to easily fix it. I have heard perfectly mixed concerts at this particular venue and am just mind boggled @how some of these guys at the desk are hooked up to mix on the A circuit.You can buy a whole lot of concert DVD's for $200 . I don't know how yous guys feel about it but I find it sad and embarrassing when people are coming up to you telling you how great a job you are doing just because you don't suck . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WynnD Posted October 14, 2009 Members Share Posted October 14, 2009 If the sound is good, nobody notices. If the sound is bad, everybody notices! (Not totally true, but bad is noticed faster by more people.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dangordan Posted October 14, 2009 Members Share Posted October 14, 2009 If the sound is good, nobody notices. If the sound is bad, everybody notices! (Not totally true, but bad is noticed faster by more people.) I don't think the average punter notices. Some can tell somethings not right but usually blame performers. Muddy vocals=can't sing. Reading the reviews on Ticketmaster confirms this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WynnD Posted October 15, 2009 Members Share Posted October 15, 2009 I would agree that average folks won't know why the sound is bad. And bass lovers really won't understand why cranking the bass affects the sound quality of the lower mid-range and possibly the singer's pitch reference. It's a rare sound problem that isn't improved by turning down. (At least for smaller places and crowds. I'm sure Andy has run into coverage issues at times.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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