Members Fotowns Finest Posted December 3, 2009 Members Share Posted December 3, 2009 ok, i have this (http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Phonic-Powerpod-410-S710-PA-Package?sku=630485), and my problem is i cant turn it up past 2 1/2 without it screaming feedback at me, and i have no idea why. i just got an SM58 and a live wire cable and it did nothing to help. at this point im thinking i got lemon speakers or something. my band uses a 15W guitar amp and a 12W bass amp and i can barely hear myself through the mix. i actually ran my voice through my friends 15W amp and it got as loud as my 2 big ass speakers. i think it makes sense, if the mixer and speakers put out 100W, i figure if its set to 2 its only about 20W. i have no idea how to reverse this which is why i came here. does anyone know anything regarding this? im thinking i need to either get a new mixer or speakers, but i dont know if i should get the speakers or the mixer. any help on this would be greatly appreciated. and also ive tried a bunch of different setups, like having everything real close and then real far apart, but nothing seems to help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Marc G Posted December 3, 2009 Members Share Posted December 3, 2009 might be how you are positioning the mics and the speakers.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members heath_eld Posted December 3, 2009 Members Share Posted December 3, 2009 First thing is stop and pause... it depends on what you're trying to achieve. That setup isnt going to get you a great amount of volume, (eg you wouldnt use it to gig in a bar or club) but you should be able to hear it over practice amps. I used to own something like that, and although it wasnt a great system, it should do a low volume rehearsal Ok. We used to use it in (very small) church services with an acoustic guitar and keyboard and a couple of voices, and it worked... Its unlikely that a "dud" would cause feedback. Its more likely that a dud just wouldnt work. As the previous poster suggested try moving away from the speakers. Start with the master set to about 6 or 7, and the EQs set flat, reverb turned down, and gradually bring your vocals up. Failing that, how does it sound with a CD? If thats no good, time to take it into the shop i reckon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Hegmatronicon Posted December 3, 2009 Members Share Posted December 3, 2009 CHeck the gain knob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members heath_eld Posted December 3, 2009 Members Share Posted December 3, 2009 "CHeck the gain knob." Doesnt have one... just one volume knob per chanel... pretty basic stuff... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 6Imzadi Posted December 3, 2009 Members Share Posted December 3, 2009 The microphone, of course, gets plugged into the front in a channel.The speaker(s) get plugged into the back in the speaker jack.Nothing gets plugged into the main out amp in jack.How big a room is your equipment in?Try one speaker first.Turn the main knob to 5 and the mic level to off, then bring up slowly.Sorry to simplify things, but trying to start at the beginning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Hegmatronicon Posted December 3, 2009 Members Share Posted December 3, 2009 First thing is stop and pause... it depends on what you're trying to achieve. That setup isnt going to get you a great amount of volume, (eg you wouldnt use it to gig in a bar or club) but you should be able to hear it over practice amps. I used to own something like that, and although it wasnt a great system, it should do a low volume rehearsal Ok. We used to use it in (very small) church services with an acoustic guitar and keyboard and a couple of voices, and it worked... Its unlikely that a "dud" would cause feedback. Its more likely that a dud just wouldnt work. As the previous poster suggested try moving away from the speakers. Start with the master set to about 6 or 7, and the EQs set flat, reverb turned down, and gradually bring your vocals up. Failing that, how does it sound with a CD? If thats no good, time to take it into the shop i reckon. check ur pm's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Fotowns Finest Posted December 3, 2009 Author Members Share Posted December 3, 2009 its a pretty decently sized room, probably at least 20 feet long. ive tried getting the mic away from everything else, i was able to get it up to 3, but at that point i was in an entirely different room than everything else. ive tried having speakers and mic and one end of the room and the mixer at the other, ive done the mixer/speakers on one side and mic on the other. all the times ive done this ive been as far away as i can get and i get no gain in volume. all i want to do is be able to be heard for practice. in no way do i intend to gig with this system, im just trying to get a much volume as i can so i can hear myself over everything else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jwlussow Posted December 3, 2009 Members Share Posted December 3, 2009 Feedback is basically the mic picking up the speaker and causing a loop. You can try a unidimensional mic and change the speaker position. Are the speakers on stands facing you? Are they on the floor? Exactly where do you place the speakers (ie, how far from the mic)? Is the mic behind or in front of the speakers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted December 3, 2009 CMS Author Share Posted December 3, 2009 This is what $200 buys you. If 2 bills got you a decent practice system, believe me, everyone would have them. To explain the "why": the piezo tweeters have peaks in response instead of being flat and smooth, and the peaks make it nearly impossible to get decent volume without feedback (the peaks feed back long before the overall level is loud enough to be useful). If the room has mostly hard surfaces that reflect sound, the problem is worse. 20 feet is a small room, but I doubt more space would be much of an improvement....a couple of years ago I trusted my drummer (I know, I know) to rent some monitors for an outdoor party. He got a pair of Nady 10" that are nearly identical to what you have, and they were unusable...and I've got a prett decent mixer, EQ's, etc. to assist. I would suggest that for a practice system in a room that size, ONE powered speaker would be more than enough. Yorktown, JBL, Peavey, QSC, Samson, Mackie and a few others make good quality powered speakers that have a mic input or two and can be the entire system in one box. They offer much better speakers with compression driver HF and other benefits that will increase your chances of success. Yes, you're gonna need to spend more, but what you have now is completely useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted December 3, 2009 Members Share Posted December 3, 2009 To explain the "why": the piezo tweeters have peaks in response instead of being flat and smooth, and the peaks make it nearly impossible to get decent volume without feedback (the peaks feed back long before the overall level is loud enough to be useful).I've never had this problem with piezos - but I've usually used the "good" Motorola/CTS made ones and avoided "stoopid loud" stage volumes. OTOH both cheap piezos and cheap "conventional" HF drivers are more prone to feedback than the good HF drivers. The OP could try disconnecting the piezos as the 10" drivers prob'ly go up high enough for rehearsal purposes - but it probably won't help much at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted December 3, 2009 CMS Author Share Posted December 3, 2009 I've never had this problem with piezos - but I've usually used the "good" Motorola/CTS made ones and avoided "stoopid loud" stage volumes. OTOH both cheap piezos and cheap "conventional" HF drivers are more prone to feedback than the good HF drivers. The OP could try disconnecting the piezos as the 10" drivers prob'ly go up high enough for rehearsal purposes - but it probably won't help much at all. I wouldn't make any changes, other than returning for a refund or store credit. Investing less than the cost of a usable guitar in a PA...even for practice...is not a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted December 3, 2009 CMS Author Share Posted December 3, 2009 Assuming you're using the "free" mic that came with it try borrowing a decent one. Cheap mics feed back at lower volumes than a good one. He's using an SM-58. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted December 3, 2009 Members Share Posted December 3, 2009 He's using an SM-58.Oops, missed that - never mind . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted December 3, 2009 Members Share Posted December 3, 2009 Where did you get the SM-58? I wonder if it's a counterfit. Some ofthe fakes are ungodly awful, like omnidirectional. Try a different mic to rule this out. Do you have a friend who really knows what they are doing? That might help eliminate some bone-head scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GCDEF Posted December 3, 2009 Members Share Posted December 3, 2009 The ironic part of this thread is he's looking for a good deal on a 100 watt amp in the amp forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bobby1Note Posted December 3, 2009 Members Share Posted December 3, 2009 Fotowns Finest, Describe EXACTLY how your speakers are set-up, in relation to your standing position. Are the speakers facing you? Are they facing you DIRECTLY, but at an angle??? Are they facing AWAY from you??? If you set them up facing away from you (you can't "see" the front of the speakers), does this help? If you set-up with a single speaker facing you directly (the back of the mic), does this help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted December 3, 2009 Members Share Posted December 3, 2009 Where did you get the SM-58? I wonder if it's a counterfit. Some ofthe fakes are ungodly awful, like omnidirectional. Try a different mic to rule this out.Good point! http://acapella.harmony-central.com/showthread.php?t=2139144 http://www.kiwifolk.com/blog/2007/03/be-aware-that-there-have-recently-been.html I think I've seen "real" ones as low as $100 but not lower? I've got one that has hardly been used I should sell - I really don't care for them but thought I should have one in case someone got pissy about my EV N/D767A's or I needed to pound some nails in someday . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Coaster Posted December 3, 2009 Members Share Posted December 3, 2009 unidimensional mic what that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted December 4, 2009 CMS Author Share Posted December 4, 2009 The ironic part of this thread is he's looking for a good deal on a 100 watt amp in the amp forum. Yeah, I didn't see that, but I knew this had to be the typical case of plenty to spend on guitars and amps, zippidy-do-dah for the PA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shaster Posted December 4, 2009 Members Share Posted December 4, 2009 I would suggest that for a practice system in a room that size, ONE powered speaker would be more than enough. Yorktown, JBL, Peavey, QSC, Samson, Mackie and a few others make good quality powered speakers that have a mic input or two and can be the entire system in one box. After all these years I just realized Yorkville would be Yorktown if both words were in english. +1 to a good powered speaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Fotowns Finest Posted December 4, 2009 Author Members Share Posted December 4, 2009 Yeah, I didn't see that, but I knew this had to be the typical case of plenty to spend on guitars and amps, zippidy-do-dah for the PA. lol yea my were gonna get a free 100W bass amp and we'll need a guitar amp to match, but this wont be until another 6 or so months, buy then i should have enough money for a whole new PA, but i have to get by until then but yea, for my setup i have me and the mic at one end of the room, i have both speakers in front of me about 10-12 feet away, i have one on its side as a monitor facing me, and the other standing up facing the opposite direction. then i have the mixer about 10 feet away from that, but i dont think that helps for some reason lol. i was able to get it up to 3 or so today with this exact setup, but once we cut into a song and began to sing, i realized im too far away from the speakers to hear myself at a good enough volume. before this i had one speaker standing up and the other laying on top of it as a monitor facing me, with me directly infront of it so the monitor was right it my face (could only get it to 2 like this), so far this has been the only thing i could do so i could really hear myself, the setup i mentioned earlier really worked as far as getting louder, but theres not much i can do about it if im not close enough to my speakers to hear myself good. im really starting to think i just need better speakers at this point... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members malcatron Posted December 4, 2009 Members Share Posted December 4, 2009 You don't need to match bass & guitar amps "watt for watt". Bass requires a lot more power than guitar, the bassist in my band has a 500w rig, me and the other guitarist both run 20w (valve/tube) amps and match the bass no problem. I'd wait and see just how loud this new bass amp is before rushing out to buy a 100w guitar amp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted December 4, 2009 CMS Author Share Posted December 4, 2009 After all these years I just realized Yorkville would be Yorktown if both words were in english. +1 to a good powered speaker. I've been on-call for my job this week, and sleep has been rare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members heath_eld Posted December 4, 2009 Members Share Posted December 4, 2009 but yea, for my setup i have me and the mic at one end of the room, i have both speakers in front of me about 10-12 feet away, i have one on its side as a monitor facing me, and the other standing up facing the opposite direction. then i have the mixer about 10 feet away from that, but i dont think that helps for some reason lol. i was able to get it up to 3 or so today with this exact setup, but once we cut into a song and began to sing, i realized im too far away from the speakers to hear myself at a good enough volume. I assume these are relatively new? Take them in under warranty. Thats not right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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