Members TrickyBoy Posted April 20, 2016 Members Share Posted April 20, 2016 I used to hang out on the HC forums a lot... Finally making my way back. Anyway, I just picked up a Dr. Z Z-Wreck, which I love. The only issue is I want to crank the volume knob, but it makes the amp unbearably loud. Sou I think I'm going to pick up an attenuator. I thinking the Rock Crusher, but before I pull the trigger, I wanted to see if anyone else here had experience with and recommendations for attenuators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 Welcome back. I haven't tried the Rivera attenuator. The only one I have is the Hot Plate built into my THD Univalve. I'm not that crazy about it. It's all right for slight to moderate attenuation, but if you really need to slam down on a loud amp, I've never heard anything that I find 100% satisfying, and for the price of some of the more expensive options, I'd rather just get a low-power tube amp to use instead for those low-volume situations. YMMV Now having said that... have you considered using less efficient speakers with the Dr. Z? If you tend to crank the volume a lot, and find yourself having more volume than you need all the time, a set of less efficient speakers may be the way to go. They'll make the amp less loud at any given volume knob setting. Check out this article for some info on how speaker efficiency can influence volume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted April 21, 2016 Members Share Posted April 21, 2016 I agree with Phil. Buying a low efficiency speaker and sticking it in a backup cab is going to be allot cheaper too.You can easily pick up a smaller 10" speaker that can handle the wattage and just build a cab for it. You simply disconnect the internal speakers and connect the low efficiency speaker when you want low volume. I have a couple of these Dayton speakers. They are normally used for PA cabs but have a pretty good sound for guitars. They have a 92db sensitivity level common in 2 way sound cabs. When I run a guitar amp into them I get about half the volume I do from my regular guitar speakers.One of these is allot cheaper then spending $300 on an attenuator. http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-...oofer--295-030 This one is only $16 and can handle 125W and have a Fq response up to 5Khz. http://www.parts-express.com/pyramid-studio-pro-wh10-10-woofer-accordian-surround--290-262 Its got an SPL of 89db. Without doing the math, it would like cutting your amps volume down to maybe a 5w amp. Something you could crank way up and still be able to talk over it. Cant say the tone will be as good as a regular speaker. The paper is usually pretty thick on these PA speakers. I have several different types of them and other then a bit of darkening to the tone, they are still usable, at least up to the point where the amps saturates allot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members onelife Posted April 21, 2016 Members Share Posted April 21, 2016 . . . This one is only $16 and can handle 125W. Its got an SPL of 89db. Without doing the math, it would like cutting your amps volume down to maybe a 5w amp. Something you could crank way up and still be able to talk over it. Cant say the tone will be as good as a regular speaker. The paper is usually pretty thick on these PA speakers. I have several different types of them and other then a bit of darkening to the tone, they are still usable, at least up to the point where the amps saturates allot. Like turning a Twin into a Champ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted April 21, 2016 Members Share Posted April 21, 2016 Like turning a Twin into a Champ? Yes exactly, its going to bring the volume way down. I bought a pair similar to those when they were on sale for like $10 each. I had them in a 4X10 cab for a short time. The other crappy pair of no named Ceramic guitar speakers in that cab were like 3 times louder. I eventually stuck those low SPL 10's in small reflex PA cabs. Even with a high wattage head they don't put out allot of sound but the tone isn't too bad for what volume there is. It's probably about the same as what you'd get with an attenuator turned way down. In any case its still the cheapest way of getting low volume and not having to resort to using some kind of brick wall attenuation. If the OP had some kind of electronic skill I might suggest he use a wire wound L-Pad and light bulb to fake a speaker coils reactance. An L- Pad will give you some sweep on the volume level using the existing speakers and the light bulb helps soften the brick wall effect slamming the signal into a fixed resistor. Speakers have a DC resistance but an amp puts out an AC signal and the coil changes its impedance resistance as the signal frequency changes. In essence a speaker acts like a shock absorber to the signal. When you use an attenuator, the resistance doesn't change and it does some weird things to the sound. If used mildly you don't notice it but when you use allot and try and overdrive the amp its not the same as a speaker which acts pushing air. If anything it might reduce tube life in some amps. Building a lower wattage attenuator is not cheaper then a speaker but its allot cheaper then a commercial version. A budget 50W L-Pad one will cost about $20 and should be able to handle a 25W amp for awhile. http://www.parts-express.com/speaker...8-ohm--260-260 You still need the other components, jacks, box, bulb, socket etc and someone to put it all together. Its not going to sound any better then a normal attenuator and its not as reactive like a speaker coil is. I'd use a thick metal box that dissipates heat too. That pad is likely to get hot when you crank the amp. We used to use a box with ceramic resistors to cut down the speaker levels in the shop doing amp repairs. Those resistors could heat enough to burn when you're stress testing an amp. So long as the amps RMS wattage is about half as much as the L-Pad it shouldn't get cooked. Tube amps are rated in clean watts and can push allot higher once it starts clipping so you want that additional safety range. I'd say the speaker trick is probably the best however for either SS or tube amps because it will supply the proper load especially if you goal is to push the head hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members onelife Posted April 21, 2016 Members Share Posted April 21, 2016 A good way to compare RMS and peak power is to think of RMS as the area under the waveform you would see on an oscilloscope. A sine wave and a square wave of equal amplitude will have considerably different areas under the curve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted April 21, 2016 Members Share Posted April 21, 2016 A while back I built an attenuator for my Fender but it goes in the effects loop and your Z-Wreck doesn't have one. The Celestion Blue and Gold in your cab are both rated for 100 dB. The original G12M is rated for 96 dB and the Rocket 50 for 95 dB. Either would tame your amp a bit. If you want to be adventurous, the Eminence Reignmaker has a built-in attenuator but you'd have to adjust both speakers to the same level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TrickyBoy Posted April 22, 2016 Author Members Share Posted April 22, 2016 The speaker idea is very interesting to me. I'm going to have to play with that this weekend. Thanks for all the input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted April 22, 2016 Share Posted April 22, 2016 Please let us know how your experiments work out for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TrickyBoy Posted May 7, 2016 Author Members Share Posted May 7, 2016 So I started out with the easy solution. I bought an attenuator. I got the Dr. Z Brake Lite SA. And to my ear it works really well. I was able to turn the Z-Wreck all the way up and the attenuator brought the volume back to a useable level. Now personally, the sound I really like is set the volume just past "noon", right to where it breaks up a little if it hit it, but I can still get really chimey clean tones. Then I use pedals to add dirt. The one thing I noticed is that I found myself adding just a little extra treble with the attenuator. But otherwise I really love it. The other suggestion I was given was to disconnect the "blue" celestian and just use the "gold" one. Haven't gotten that daring yet... I'll perform with the attenuator tomorrow night, so we'll see how it goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted May 7, 2016 Members Share Posted May 7, 2016 . . . The other suggestion I was given was to disconnect the "blue" celestian and just use the "gold" one. Haven't gotten that daring yet... I'll perform with the attenuator tomorrow night, so we'll see how it goes. The Gold and Blue are wired in series for 16 Ohms. Taking one speaker out of the equation will drop the load to 8 Ohms and you'd have to adjust accordingly by plugging the remaining speaker into the "8 Ohm" output. Even then, you wouldn't reduce the output by much, say 3 dB or less if that, so it really isn't worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Verne Andru Posted May 23, 2016 Members Share Posted May 23, 2016 I use L-pads. Cheap and work just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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