Members Tat2bluez Posted January 17, 2012 Members Share Posted January 17, 2012 Lineup: 3- piece acoustic group (mostly guitars, mando, etc) a splash of keyboards, with a couple of pickup mics, and 3 vox. Will be using 2 EV ZXA1's (800 watts ea.) for PA. Starting to look at ~12-16 channel powered mixers. Was advised at a well-known online shop that I should figure on needing 1.5x power of the speakers for the mixer. That would come to 2400 watts. Even with my remedial math skills, that really sounds wrong. Can anyone steer me straight on this? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted January 17, 2012 Members Share Posted January 17, 2012 Lineup: 3- piece acoustic group (mostly guitars, mando, etc) a splash of keyboards, with a couple of pickup mics, and 3 vox. Will be using 2 EV ZXA1's (800 watts ea.) for PA. Starting to look at ~12-16 channel powered mixers. Was advised at a well-known online shop that I should figure on needing 1.5x power of the speakers for the mixer. That would come to 2400 watts. Even with my remedial math skills, that really sounds wrong. Can anyone steer me straight on this? Thanks! I don't think that is the RMS wattage of the speakers, is it? Sounds more like a program rating, which I certainly would stay below, if that is the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tat2bluez Posted January 17, 2012 Author Members Share Posted January 17, 2012 I don't think that is the RMS wattage of the speakers, is it? Sounds more like a program rating, which I certainly would stay below, if that is the case. Yep - it is supposed to be 'true' 800 watts each, with some headroom to peak at 1100. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MJastrzebski Posted January 17, 2012 Members Share Posted January 17, 2012 The ZXA1 is a powered speaker. You don't need an amplifier for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Miko Man Posted January 17, 2012 Members Share Posted January 17, 2012 The ZXA1 is a powered speaker. You don't need an amplifier for it. This ^^^. If you have powered ("active") speakers, then you need an non-powered mixer. There is an EV ZX1 speaker, which is unpowered ("passive"), but it is not rated at 800 watts RMS. Mark C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tat2bluez Posted January 17, 2012 Author Members Share Posted January 17, 2012 This ^^^. If you have powered ("active") speakers, then you need an non-powered mixer. There is an EV ZX1 speaker, which is unpowered ("passive"), but it is not rated at 800 watts RMS. Mark C. They are the ZXA1's, which are active speakers. So the guy at zzsounds was mistaken? I don't need a powered mixer with them? I am new to PAs (well, at least, new to having to be responsible for them) so this is all on my learning curve... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Miko Man Posted January 17, 2012 Members Share Posted January 17, 2012 They are the ZXA1's, which are active speakers. So the guy at zzsounds was mistaken? I don't need a powered mixer with them? You do not need (or want) a powered mixer with active speakers. The salesperson was wrong/confused/mistaken. (Giving him the benefit of the doubt.) Mark C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tat2bluez Posted January 17, 2012 Author Members Share Posted January 17, 2012 You do not need (or want) a powered mixer with active speakers. The salesperson was wrong/confused/mistaken. (Giving him the benefit of the doubt.) Mark C. Got it. Thanks so much for clarifying that~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Al Poulin Posted January 17, 2012 Members Share Posted January 17, 2012 The passive ZX1s are actually rated at 200 watts continuous with 800 watts of PEAK power handling. (manufacturers like to print the big number to improve sales) while the ZX1As have a total possible 800 processed and carefully applied watts on tap. They are however a very compact cabinet with an 8" woofer and fairly small horn. You can only expect so much from them. I hope you are not putting bass or drums through them at all. There are powered subs specially designed to be used with the ZX1As if you are planning to use these for bigger applications. If they are indeed ZX1As, you need a passive mixer with those. Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twostone Posted January 17, 2012 Members Share Posted January 17, 2012 Well at least he sold you some decent active speakers great speaker for the stuff you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted January 17, 2012 Members Share Posted January 17, 2012 Well at least he sold you some decent active speakers great speaker for the stuff you do. Agreed, nice 200 watt active speakers for that kind of application. Too bad about the marketing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GCDEF Posted January 17, 2012 Members Share Posted January 17, 2012 Any particular reason you're looking at 8" speakers for mains? That seems likely to disappoint to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tat2bluez Posted January 17, 2012 Author Members Share Posted January 17, 2012 The passive ZX1s are actually rated at 200 watts continuous with 800 watts of PEAK power handling. (manufacturers like to print the big number to improve sales) while the ZX1As have a total possible 800 processed and carefully applied watts on tap. They are however a very compact cabinet with an 8" woofer and fairly small horn. You can only expect so much from them. I hope you are not putting bass or drums through them at all. There are powered subs specially designed to be used with the ZX1As if you are planning to use these for bigger applications. If they are indeed ZX1As, you need a passive mixer with those. Al Thanks for the info. They are ZXA1's. For future reference, how do I determined actual wattage rating? I didn't come across that info in any of the specs I've read. I'm sure these will be more than enough for our immediate use - we will be doing house concerts & small venues to start. We do not have drums in the lineup and only use an 'acoustic-electric' bass and/or keyboards in a couple of songs. I will keep a powered sub in mind for when we increase our audience size~ Thanks again to everyone for your help~Laura Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tat2bluez Posted January 17, 2012 Author Members Share Posted January 17, 2012 Any particular reason you're looking at 8" speakers for mains? That seems likely to disappoint to me. We're 3 women who don't like to lift heavy things~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rodclement Posted January 17, 2012 Members Share Posted January 17, 2012 I used the same speakers for over a year for acoustic duo in small to medium venues and they worked fine. I would be concerned about using them with keyboards and a bass through them without a sub, just my observation from using them. We ran two voices and one acoustic guitar through them and they were fine for that. Good luck! Rod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Miko Man Posted January 17, 2012 Members Share Posted January 17, 2012 Thanks for the info. They are ZXA1's. For future reference, how do I determined actual wattage rating? I didn't come across that info in any of the specs I've read.Thanks again to everyone for your help~Laura With an active speaker, I suggest that the watts advertised are far less important (from a PA perspective) than the SPL level at one meter. That number, expressed in db at 1M, will give you an idea of how much sound [how loud] the speaker will theoretically produce. You can compare those numbers between speakers and get an idea of relative sound pressure levels. SPL tells you nothing about the quality of the sound produced. Hence the need to audition potential speaker options, if possible, before making your purchase decision. Depending on where you live, that may not always be feasible. Mark C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GCDEF Posted January 17, 2012 Members Share Posted January 17, 2012 We're 3 women who don't like to lift heavy things~ That may be the case, but it doesn't change the fact that an 8" speaker will probably be disappointing. I hate to say it, but it sounds like you guys may be good candidates for the Bose L1 system or something similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tat2bluez Posted January 17, 2012 Author Members Share Posted January 17, 2012 That may be the case, but it doesn't change the fact that an 8" speaker will probably be disappointing. I hate to say it, but it sounds like you guys may be good candidates for the Bose L1 system or something similar. The Bose L1 is completely in a different price point and not feasible. I'm getting one of the speakers this week and will give it a whirl. I'm sure if I don't think it will cut it, it will make a great monitor. (Or, I can always send it back -zzsounds has a reasonable return policy). @RodClement: Good to know about the bass response. I'll start looking into Subwoofers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twostone Posted January 17, 2012 Members Share Posted January 17, 2012 The Bose L1 is completely in a different price point and not feasible. I'm getting one of the speakers this week and will give it a whirl. I'm sure if I don't think it will cut it, it will make a great monitor. (Or, I can always send it back -zzsounds has a reasonable return policy).@RodClement: Good to know about the bass response. I'll start looking into Subwoofers. See Bill's " What active speaker weighs 46 lbs" thread looks like EV made a mate for your ZX1A's but you definitely want to audition them first. Oh yea for my side project trio I use a small Peavey PV10 mixer for a pair of active EV's and place the speaker on stands behind us so no wedges required since were just running vocal only through mixer and speakers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted January 17, 2012 Members Share Posted January 17, 2012 Advertised power doesn't matter one bit... what matters is maximum SPL (when compared with like rated powered speakers) and bandwidth... and of course sound quality which is more subjective. I would at least look at the ZX1A-SUB, but then that adds more to the cost. If you can't afford a sub and you need more than the ZX1A can reasonably deliver, it's time to look at a larger speqaker model with higher SPL and better low frequency extension and maybe you won't need a sub. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted January 17, 2012 Members Share Posted January 17, 2012 Advertised power doesn't matter one bit... what matters is maximum SPL Speaking of marketing. If the max SPL is "calculated" if may be off by 10 db (or more) from what you might get in the real world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twostone Posted January 17, 2012 Members Share Posted January 17, 2012 Speaking of marketing. If the max SPL is "calculated" if may be off by 10 db (or more) from what you might get in the real world. Great point Don esp when you start adding up stage mics, room acoustic, and hard reflective surfaces will definitely reduce the SPL output. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted January 17, 2012 Members Share Posted January 17, 2012 Great point Don esp when you start adding up stage mics, room acoustic, and hard reflective surfaces will definitely reduce the SPL output. That's not what Don was getting at. If I am reading Don's post as he intended it, he was condsidering the very real effect of power compression based on the large signal model that includes displacement non-linearities whereas the calculated number is generally from the small signal model that does not consider large signal non-linrearities. This is why I suggest that powering a speaker to it's breaking point gains very little SPL over being more conservative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twostone Posted January 18, 2012 Members Share Posted January 18, 2012 That's not what Don was getting at.If I am reading Don's post as he intended it, he was condsidering the very real effect of power compression based on the large signal model that includes displacement non-linearities whereas the calculated number is generally from the small signal model that does not consider large signal non-linrearities.This is why I suggest that powering a speaker to it's breaking point gains very little SPL over being more conservative. Oh okay but doesn't hard surfaces plays a role in reducing SPL vs like a open air space? of course in open air space the sound dissipates as soon as it leaves and really bad on windy days. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted January 18, 2012 Members Share Posted January 18, 2012 Oh okay but doesn't hard surfaces plays a role in reducing SPL vs like a open air space? of course in open air space the sound dissipates as soon as it leaves and really bad on windy days. LOL Reflective surfaces generally cause increased SPL because open air is 100% loss whereas a reflective surface is whatever the inverse of the absorbtion coefficent is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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