Playing a guitar through a bass amp

[isaac42]

The only thing I would add is that it probably sounds really good from a solo standpoint. In the context of a band' date=' I would really back off on the low end, as you don't really want to be competing with the bassist in the lower frequencies. My .02 anyway.[/quote']

 

Wish I could communicate that to the guitarists I play with.

[WRGKMC]

 

Wish I could communicate that to the guitarists I play with.

 

Its what sets a bedroom soloist apart from a working musician. Someone who plays solo all the time and doesn't sing when he plays is likely to crank the highs and lows up to fill in those frequencies and sound like a full band, When you actually play in a band you have to modify your range so you aren't stomping on everyone else's frequency Turf. Everyone wants to be able to hear themselves play and when someone is being a frequency hog it makes for big problems.

 

An inexperienced player may not even know he's doing it but he should beware of the signs.

 

Singers who are having a hard time hearing the words or is sticking his finger in his ear to hear himself is a sign.

A bass player and drummer who are having a hard time locking their beat may be another. An owner of a club or the fans telling you you're too loud may be another. When you play in a band with another guitarist and you wind up in a volume war may be another sign.

 

The facts are, two instruments cant occupy the same tone ranges and not have one instrument masking another.

 

When I used to play in bands with another guitarist, part of working the music through also involves the tone. When you hear a recording you'll usually have one guitar take the upper mids for leads and the other the lower mids. for chords. Sometimes its swapped around like when you have clean fender tones playing chords. The leads may have a deeper tone to cut through the chord jangle.

 

The thing is it is part of getting a good sound playing within the mix. I like the fat man scenario for this. If you're taking a picture of 5 guys and one weighs 500lbs and is standing closer to the cameral he's going to block everyone else from being seen. If you get him to loose weight (narrow his frequency range) he can stand side by side with everyone else. If he wants to stay fat, he has to be put in back of everyone else in the photo and you only wind up seeing his face behind the others or half hos body. The rest of his body is being masked by the guy in front of him.

 

The exact same thing happens in sound. You want your low end to roll off where the bass players high frequencies end. you want your high frequencies to roll off before the vocals, snare and cymbals do. If you play with another guitarist or keyboard player, you have to narrow your range even more.

 

Of course it can and does get a little more complex when you add in comb filtering. You can have scoops in your range to let other parts come through.

 

A 300HZ scoop on guitars is very common for metal players. This creates a window where the bass can position himself to be heard and the sub frequencies below 300Hz produces cabinet thump bass which mixes in with the kick and bass to get that big heart pounding tone. This is one one of many examples of course.

 

A good example of frequency separation can be heard listening to some of the older Steely Dan recordings. Every instrument in the mix can not only be heard clear and transparent, but there is actually space between the parts which means there no notable masking going on. That's tough to do because the second you do have space when playing with others the natural tendency is to widen your range and fill it in.

 

The really hard part is restraining yourself form doing that. Keeping a narrower range and just staying focused on the playing is what's going to get you heard. listeners have a natural tendency to fill in the gaps themselves. They can hear a crappy AM pocket radio with a guitar squeezed down to a very narrow of frequencies barely audible, but the person listening will hear the "Skill" and emotion of the player producing the notes. The hype over good tone is much too highly rated. Many think its going to make their performance better but it can actually reveal just how unskilled someone actually is. This is one reason why overdrive is used so much. It can be a good tool when used by a skilled player but it can also be a crutch for players who have weak performing skills.

[isaac42]

This is one reason why overdrive is used so much. It can be a good tool when used by a skilled player but it can also be a crutch for players who have weak performing skills.

 

Which is why I use it so much when I play guitar. I'm marginally competent on bass, but I suck on guitar. Worse on keys.

 

Great post on frequency sharing.

[lug]

 

Its what sets a bedroom soloist apart from a working musician. Someone who plays solo all the time and doesn't sing when he plays is likely to crank the highs and lows up to fill in those frequencies and sound like a full band, When you actually play in a band you have to modify your range so you aren't stomping on everyone else's frequency Turf. Everyone wants to be able to hear themselves play and when someone is being a frequency hog it makes for big problems.

 

An inexperienced player may not even know he's doing it but he should beware of the signs.

 

Singers who are having a hard time hearing the words or is sticking his finger in his ear to hear himself is a sign.

A bass player and drummer who are having a hard time locking their beat may be another. An owner of a club or the fans telling you you're too loud may be another. When you play in a band with another guitarist and you wind up in a volume war may be another sign.

 

The facts are, two instruments cant occupy the same tone ranges and not have one instrument masking another.

 

When I used to play in bands with another guitarist, part of working the music through also involves the tone. When you hear a recording you'll usually have one guitar take the upper mids for leads and the other the lower mids. for chords. Sometimes its swapped around like when you have clean fender tones playing chords. The leads may have a deeper tone to cut through the chord jangle.

 

The thing is it is part of getting a good sound playing within the mix. I like the fat man scenario for this. If you're taking a picture of 5 guys and one weighs 500lbs and is standing closer to the cameral he's going to block everyone else from being seen. If you get him to loose weight (narrow his frequency range) he can stand side by side with everyone else. If he wants to stay fat, he has to be put in back of everyone else in the photo and you only wind up seeing his face behind the others or half hos body. The rest of his body is being masked by the guy in front of him.

 

The exact same thing happens in sound. You want your low end to roll off where the bass players high frequencies end. you want your high frequencies to roll off before the vocals, snare and cymbals do. If you play with another guitarist or keyboard player, you have to narrow your range even more.

 

Of course it can and does get a little more complex when you add in comb filtering. You can have scoops in your range to let other parts come through.

 

A 300HZ scoop on guitars is very common for metal players. This creates a window where the bass can position himself to be heard and the sub frequencies below 300Hz produces cabinet thump bass which mixes in with the kick and bass to get that big heart pounding tone. This is one one of many examples of course.

 

A good example of frequency separation can be heard listening to some of the older Steely Dan recordings. Every instrument in the mix can not only be heard clear and transparent, but there is actually space between the parts which means there no notable masking going on. That's tough to do because the second you do have space when playing with others the natural tendency is to widen your range and fill it in.

 

The really hard part is restraining yourself form doing that. Keeping a narrower range and just staying focused on the playing is what's going to get you heard. listeners have a natural tendency to fill in the gaps themselves. They can hear a crappy AM pocket radio with a guitar squeezed down to a very narrow of frequencies barely audible, but the person listening will hear the "Skill" and emotion of the player producing the notes. The hype over good tone is much too highly rated. Many think its going to make their performance better but it can actually reveal just how unskilled someone actually is. This is one reason why overdrive is used so much. It can be a good tool when used by a skilled player but it can also be a crutch for players who have weak performing skills.

 

I don't care what you say......I'M NOT GOING ON A DIET!

 

[JayBEEinNC]

Hey Y'all -- Can appreciate the tech stuff --Somewhat over my head the-- I've been playing guitar (& esp. recording) thru my '82 Bassman 20--

18 watts--2x7025's & 2x6V's-- w/a 15" speaker. 1 of the simplest amps Fender made. Mine was in Premiere Guitar a few years back. I just got it out last week & put some FX on it & it's allright (Take note Jesus). I've been playing guitar thru it for @ least 20 years w/no bad effects -- JB

[Joemama666]

On 4/3/2016 at 2:58 PM, Schustermgs said:

Just from my brief experiences with it, plugging a guitar into a bass amp can give a pretty good jazz or old school blues tone but other than that its just not meant for the frequencies of a guitar pickup so i don't think you could ever get a great tone out of it even if it is possible

I don't know why the hell I'm replying to a comment thread on a 4 year old post but whatever, I'm bored AF and came across a really good deal on an Ampeg SVT-350 head/410HLF cab and I really want to buy it as well as a couple specific effects pedals to use as a guitar rig as I can get a very specific (and potentially a very difficult to reproduce) tone from it. Jazz and blues; I could see how they could sound decent but there's literally an entire cult following of guitar players wanting to achieve the tone of a certain musician in an infamous but long defunct stoner metal band by the name of KYUSS. This is most accurately done using a guitar with a one piece solid mahogany body (the actual guitar was an Ovation Ultra GP but those are near impossible to aquire due to them only producing a few hundred of them back in the 80's), ebony fretboard, utilizing drop C tuning, heavy gauge strings and playing through an Ampeg V4 bass head and SVT bass cabinets. He used quite a few different amp setups and would use guitar heads through bass cabs as well. My point is the ability to get an incredible tone using a guitar through a bass amp is more than possible but it does require very specific gear and setup/settings. You probably won't ever read this or are into stoner metal but if you are interested in the tone I'm referring to, listen to any of the tracks off the KYUSS albums Welcome To Sky Valley or Blues For The Red Sun. That certain musician I was referring to played guitar in KYUSS and back then was an unknown guy by the name of Josh Homme who went on to form a little group named Queens Of The Stone Age shortly after KYUSS disbanded and is now one of the most famous rock guitarists in the world. Unfortunately while he is an amazing musician, he seems to be kind of a poopy human. 

[Phil O'Keefe]

On 4/11/2016 at 2:05 PM, JayBEEinNC said:

Hey Y'all -- Can appreciate the tech stuff --Somewhat over my head the-- I've been playing guitar (& esp. recording) thru my '82 Bassman 20--

18 watts--2x7025's & 2x6V's-- w/a 15" speaker. 1 of the simplest amps Fender made. Mine was in Premiere Guitar a few years back. I just got it out last week & put some FX on it & it's allright (Take note Jesus). I've been playing guitar thru it for @ least 20 years w/no bad effects -- JB

 

IIRC that amp is the same basic circuit as the Riviera era Champ II's (not the Super Champ) - the main difference being the 15" speaker vs the 10" speaker in the Champ II. 

 

[Mikeps]

I had Ibanez Promethean (https://www.awkwardsound.com/ibanez-promethean-20w-1x8-bass-combo-amp-review/) and it sounded good with guitar. Very distinctive sound.

[Steelrabbit]

A friend of mine was a stone bluesman & he played straight into a tweed Bassman head into a 1-15" cab. Insane sustain!!! 😵 Turnabout is fair play; I've used guitar rigs for my bass & never blew any speakers (unless like my SVT - eating 10" recones for breakfast!). I've seen a couple of performers/groups where the guitarist was running through Marshall & SVT rigs together with no bassist! Thinking a Baritone guitar through that kinda setup would be a terror!