Members Notes_Norton Posted July 20, 2015 Members Share Posted July 20, 2015 I love P90s and have 3 guitars with P90 pickups and one with P-Rails. There is one venue that I play twice a year that has a similar if not the same problem. The first time I gigged there I had my Gibson ES-330 and it was absolutely useless. The next time I brought my LTD. One of the P90s is reverse polarity/reverse wound so when I engage both pickups it acts like a giant humbucker. No noise - nice and quiet. Now I bring my P-Rails, and simply slip both pickups in the humbucker position in that venue. Funny, we play dozens of places, and that's the only one that does it. And the builder made 4 different clubhouses in 4 similar developments, and the other 3 are just fine. So I tend to agree you have an interference problem. As noted, in all my years of gigging, dimmer switches and florescent lights are common culprits. So are things with motors or compressors like ice machines, freezers, and so on. You can get 100% shielded cable, that might help, if your amp has a polarity switch (like the old ones) that could help, or you could turn off things to find the source of the interference. P90s, Rails and the Single Coil Fender pickups are all prone to this. It comes with the territory. It is the disadvantage of single coil pickups. But single coils, and especially P90s give you pure tone, better dynamics, and faster response time. Noiseless single coils are a small compromise. They put a dummy reverse magnet in there, which reduces the magnetic field on the strings, and therefore compromises your tone and dynamics. Humbuckers are a bigger compromise. Sure they cut out the noise, but at the expense of reduced dynamic response, distorted tone (no longer a pure sine wave) and slower response time. It's all a matter of taste. Once you get your problem solved, after you play with P90s for a few months, everything else will just sound dull. Insights and incites by Notes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Misha Posted July 20, 2015 Author Members Share Posted July 20, 2015 Hi! Thank's for your input! It just made me think that there is in fact one dimmer switch in my apartment. I don't know why I didn't think about it before! I'll make sure it's always off when I play! And I agree with you! P90s sound really good!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members onelife Posted July 21, 2015 Members Share Posted July 21, 2015 P90s buzz - it's part of the deal. I recommend Kinman version - all the great sound of the original without the noise. [video=youtube;9IG2n0tRCYM] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Danhedonia Posted July 21, 2015 Members Share Posted July 21, 2015 Lots of silliness here. Let's try this once more: you almost surely have an environmental problem, not a problem with your gear. Since this is easy to check without purchasing new cords or taking apart your pickups, and also the most likely problem, and costs nothing to diagnose, that's where to start. Try the guitar in a different environment. If the noise is gone or different - problem identified. Note that a 'different environment' doesn't mean the same rig 20 yards away in the same apartment. Take it to a friend's, and borrow their rig. If the guitar makes crazy noise in tube and solid state amps, in multiple locations - then it is indeed the guitar. But it's much more likely that it's poorly shielded wiring in your apartment, being picked up by the guitar. Not checking for that possibility first is going to simply frustrate you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 Dan's right - it's probably something in your environment that is causing the hum. P-90 pickups are single coils, and single coil pickups pick up hum from a variety of sources. Do you have an old CRT computer monitor instead of a modern flat screen? That can be a huge source of hum and noise interference that your pickups will amplify. Same with an old-style CRT television set. Computers themselves can also be a big source of RFI (radio frequency interference) that can be picked up by single coil guitar pickups. So can electric motors of any kind - such as the ones in your refrigerator, your vacuum cleaner, etc. Even if your vacuum isn't running, you might have problems if a neighbor in your building is running theirs... Shielding the control and pickup cavities of the guitar (if it's not already well-shielded) can definitely help, but you will always have some noise with single coil pickups compared to humbuckers, and when recording, it's not uncommon for musicians to orient themselves in a particular direction or stand in a certain place relative to their other gear to help minimize it. If you live five blocks from a radio transmitter, or if there is "dirty AC power" in your home or improper wiring and grounding, then as Dan said, you're just going to be constantly frustrated, no matter what you do to the guitar... short of possibly replacing the stock P-90-style pickups with stacked P-100 style humbuckers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members onelife Posted July 21, 2015 Members Share Posted July 21, 2015 Lots of silliness here. Let's try this once more: you almost surely have an environmental problem' date=' [i']not[/i] a problem with your gear. Since this is easy to check without purchasing new cords or taking apart your pickups, and also the most likely problem, and costs nothing to diagnose, that's where to start. Try the guitar in a different environment. If the noise is gone or different - problem identified. Note that a 'different environment' doesn't mean the same rig 20 yards away in the same apartment. Take it to a friend's, and borrow their rig. If the guitar makes crazy noise in tube and solid state amps, in multiple locations - then it is indeed the guitar. But it's much more likely that it's poorly shielded wiring in your apartment, being picked up by the guitar. Not checking for that possibility first is going to simply frustrate you. I agree, however, there are lots of environments that are not conducive to single coil pickups. As a working guitarist, the solution for me is the high quality noiseless pickups available today. That being said, I certainly enjoy the clarity and articulation available with single coils in a clean environment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Caffeinated Cat Posted July 22, 2015 Members Share Posted July 22, 2015 I installed copper shielding tape all around the inside of my Strat - didn't make a bit of difference lol. If you're recording via USB cable, make sure it's not wrapped around a bunch of power cables - that can create a hum similar to single coil hum. Otherwise your three options are: play with a nice clean soundcrank the noise gate upget some noiseless P90's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted July 22, 2015 Members Share Posted July 22, 2015 Did you ground the foil? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Notes_Norton Posted July 22, 2015 Members Share Posted July 22, 2015 <...>If you live five blocks from a radio transmitter' date='<...>[/quote'] About 10 years ago, we did a grand opening gig for an office right next door to an AM Radio station transmitter and antenna. It was an out-door gig in front of the store. There was AM radio everywhere. I wasn't even bringing a guitar back then by we had sax, flute, two synthesizers, mics and two laptops with backing tracks. We had the radio station coming out of our PA speakers and the other tenants in the office building said they even hear the music in their phones. Having a little electronics knowledge (just enough to be dangerous) and desperate for anything that might save the gig, I went out to my car, got out the jumper cables, hooked one end to the PA rack, and the other to a copper water pipe that went up from under the ground to feed a hose bib. SILENCE!!!!!!!! Although it was a lucky guess, I impressed a lot of people with that move, and more importantly than that, we saved the gig, entertained the guests, and even got a tip with our pay for saving the day. Thanks Phil for initiating the fond memory. Yes, single coil pickups are more likely to buzz when you have an environmental problem. But when not having that problem they simply sound better to my ears, crisper, cleaner, quicker and with more dynamic response. Two compromises can be made for bad conditions that I know of Make one of your single coils Reverse Wound/Reverse Polarity so when using both they act as a big humbucker. Get Duncan P-Rails with the triple shot rings. Each pickup can be (a) P-90 (b) Rail © Series Humbucker (d) Parallel Humbucker Of course each solution is a compromise. The RW/RP compromise is you can't get that 2 sincle coil sound like the Neck/Mid position on a strat if one is RW/RP. The P-Rail sounds like a noiseless P90 when in that position. Very P90-ish but a little thinner in tone - but on the other hand the Rail position gives you a nice strat sound (better than humbuckers with a coil tap) and the humbucker sound is very respectable. But that doesn't help you with your current problem. I'd go with the dimmer first, florescent lights (including those twisty light bulbs), computers, TV sets, and motors next, turning off one at a time to see which might be the major contributor and if any are minor contributors. And enjoy your new guitar - it's a beauty. Insights and incites by Notes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 The other downside to going with the P-Rails and Triple Shot Rings is that he'd probably need to to route the guitar so they would fit - they're the same size as standard humbuckers, aren't they? Great story about the grounding Notes - thanks for posting that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 P90s buzz - it's part of the deal. I recommend Kinman version - all the great sound of the original without the noise. [video=youtube;9IG2n0tRCYM] Those sound really good. I wish their site had more technical info on what approach they're taking in making "noiseless" pickups. Seems they also don't offer a dog ear version... Casino owners would have to source their own covers, and they're also recommending against metal covers since they say it changes the sound of the pickup - which means the cosmetics of the guitar would also change... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members onelife Posted July 22, 2015 Members Share Posted July 22, 2015 good advice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members onelife Posted July 22, 2015 Members Share Posted July 22, 2015 Those sound really good. I wish their site had more technical info on what approach they're taking in making "noiseless" pickups. Seems they also don't offer a dog ear version... Casino owners would have to source their own covers, and they're also recommending against metal covers since they say it changes the sound of the pickup - which means the cosmetics of the guitar would also change... There is a bit more info on the Kinman site if you login. http://www.kinman.com/guitar-pickups/my-story/ Chris Kinman was posting on this site (one of the guitar forums) about a year and a half ago but the arguments got a bit weird and he left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Misha Posted July 23, 2015 Author Members Share Posted July 23, 2015 There is no problem with the guitar itself... when it's in a good environment for it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Misha Posted July 23, 2015 Author Members Share Posted July 23, 2015 I love these pickups but I love the Seymour Duncan P90s in the Godin Core too... when they're quiet! Right now, the hum is under control but if it comes back - too often - I might consider a set by Kinman! Thank's for the video! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Misha Posted July 23, 2015 Author Members Share Posted July 23, 2015 Well, I found out that my guitar doesn't like my fridge too much. It hums a bit with my Joyo American Sound pedal too. It seems under control, though, for now! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Misha Posted July 23, 2015 Author Members Share Posted July 23, 2015 No radio transmitter in the area. Where I live, it's a 3-day ride from the big city... with a good parachute! ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Misha Posted July 23, 2015 Author Members Share Posted July 23, 2015 I'll take a look at the P-Rails but I hope I wont have to change the stock ones, for now! Nice story about the ground fix! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Misha Posted July 23, 2015 Author Members Share Posted July 23, 2015 The pickups sounded good at the office with the cheap speakers... but they sound VERY good at home! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Notes_Norton Posted July 24, 2015 Members Share Posted July 24, 2015 The other downside to going with the P-Rails and Triple Shot Rings is that he'd probably need to to route the guitar so they would fit - they're the same size as standard humbuckers' date=' aren't they?<...snip...>[/quote'] That's true, they are standard humbucker sized. I don't think I'd mess with the Godin that way anyway. But if I could get one to match the color, I might replace the bridge with a RW/RP P90. That worked on my LTD guitar. It compromised the sound of both P90s together but it made the guitar playable in that one noisy room that drove me crazy. It's still compromised, I use my Parker in the humbucker mode all night when I play there. But other than that it's a nice gig with an appreciative audience. Insights and incites by Notes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted July 24, 2015 Members Share Posted July 24, 2015 I have P100's in my Paul and I don't get any hum at all. I've been tempted to try other pickups but because they are hum less and do sound good, I never bothered with any others. I have P90's and Mini HB's in other guitars If I want those sounds, but the 100's are very good for what I do. I went through the Kinman site. The guy is real vague on what makes his pickups hum less. I suspect its got to be something similar to the P100 having stacked coils or a dummy coil of some kind. Phase cancellation or shielding are your only two options. There was one give away on his site however. It talked about having a steel plate attached to the pick guard. This would disrupt the phase cancellation between the upper and lower coils so I do suspect he used some design similar to the P90 in his designs. He says he has a patent, but any kind of coils or phase cancellation had patents on it many, many decades ago and have long since expired and become public property, free for anyone to use. Posting it on a site saying you have a patent doesn't make it a reality. At best it may deter the ignorant from copying the design, but there's nothing new in most in inductive pickups. The technology dates back to the early telegraph and telephone and phase cancellation was patented way back then. You wonder why Gibson had patent pending on their pickups forever/ its because its a design borrowed from telephone receivers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members onelife Posted July 27, 2015 Members Share Posted July 27, 2015 . . . I went through the Kinman site. The guy is real vague on what makes his pickups hum less. I suspect its got to be something similar to the P100 having stacked coils or a dummy coil of some kind. Phase cancellation or shielding are your only two options. . . . He says he has a patent, but any kind of coils or phase cancellation had patents on it many, many decades ago and have long since expired and become public property, free for anyone to use. . . . You say phase cancellation or shielding are your only two options but they are the only ones you know about then you question Kinman's claims of patent. Some other pickups are "noiseless" too but don't sound as good (to my ear) as the Kinmans. The thing that got me interested was when Chris said his pickups sounded so good the fact that they did not hum was actually a bonus. I had replaced the single coils in my old strat with Lace Sensors but always considered it a bit of compromise. When I put the Kinmans in, it was like getting the original pickups back - but without the noise and without the stratitus. My recommendation to anyone who wishes to comment on Kinman pickups or the technology used to build them is to simply try them out. I have them in two of my guitars now and I believe that Chris has really got this figured out. He comes across a somewhat boastful but, so far, he has given me no reason to doubt any of his claims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Emory Posted July 27, 2015 Members Share Posted July 27, 2015 I see you have a Yamaha THR amp there. Have you tried playing using battery power? Still have problem? Could show if you have dirty AC. Take all those pedals out of the chain too, maybe add back one by one. Is problem still there? Here we go loop de loop.... Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Danhedonia Posted July 27, 2015 Members Share Posted July 27, 2015 Onelife, that was some tasty playing. Getting back to the situation at hand, I'm going to ask the OP to respect the efforts of posters (and for those browsing, this surely can be a serious issue, so some benefits here) and to please post a response to the questions about your environment. Are you in a stand alone home, or an apartment? Is it newer, or older? Are you perhaps going to move, or envision living there for years? These things all make a difference - because mucking around with gear you already like when you have seven months left on a lease is a waste of time / effort / money. I had a(n otherwise nice) place in Boston that dated to the 19th century. "Dirty AC" would have been sugar-coating it. I lived there for 22 months, and had a hard time realizing what was wrong - until one day, I dropped a pick that went under my amp, and wound up picking up the amp and turning it 90 degrees to fetch the pick. The infernal noise immediately stopped. At first I didn't dig having the amp turned sideways to the wall, but a quick think and rearranging the furniture a bit did the trick. It's worth noting that because the amp's issues with the dirty current were the culprit, no change to a guitar - and many HB / RWRP / Noiseless type pups were tried - would have made a difference. The point here is improper diagnoses of problems leads to 'solutions' that not only don't address the original issue, but can create more problems. If you're liable to move in a year or so, I'd just wait it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Misha Posted July 30, 2015 Author Members Share Posted July 30, 2015 Hi! yes I have a THR10. I really love that amp! It didn't made any difference with batteries. Doing this below did, though: 1- I completely forgot about a dimmer switch in my apartment and when I thought about it and shut it off, it made a big difference; 2- I set the fridge a bit lower. (It was at the coldest setting.) After that the noise came back to the level it was at the store when I tried the guitar! I found out, too, that my Joyo American sound can be a bit noisy (though it is bearable, but I don't use it all the time.) So thank's a lot for your help! I think I solved my problem! (I'm a happy girl, now!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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