Members RoadRanger Posted July 13, 2015 Members Share Posted July 13, 2015 I've heard great things about the RCFs so I'll take a look. I figured they were a sound quality upgrade even if not more headroom.I've covered a thousand outdoors at upper family friendly SPL's with my 310a's - I was told it sounded great a half mile away (measured!). Only problem is they shake themselves loose and you have to retighten everything once in a while. I was peaking 105 dB with a single one 30 feet away in a club the other day (long somewhat narrow room with the band stuffed in one corner so no logical place for a second). I've no doubt that the 312a's can get just as loud as PRX612/712's . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Al Poulin Posted July 13, 2015 Members Share Posted July 13, 2015 Hi jesseweiss, I will answer your PM tonight. I'm having trouble with the Harmony Central site lately. The only way I can post anything is by clicking "comment" on someone else's post... As you likely know, I am also a big Yamaha fan since the realease of the DXR series and own a few models from the DXR/DXS lines as well as a DBR12. For 499$, I don't think you can do better than the DBR12 - especially with a 7 year warranty included. While they are less powerful than DSR and DXR, the DBR still manage to produce similar sound quality (likely through processing) while using more "value" transducers (woofers anyway) but I have not seen mine limit yet... The mixer section is excellent as well. Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OneEng Posted July 14, 2015 Members Share Posted July 14, 2015 I run sound for my band (4 pc rock cover band) and I'm thinking of buying new speakers. The guys are cheap and would never spend for PRX's or K12's which are the only recommendations I get on another forum, so I'm looking for something one step down. Right now we have 2 older Behringer 212A's (used to be our mains) that are now monitors, 2 Behringers 312d's that we use as mains, and then I recently got 2 TS112A's which we also use for monitors (although maybe these should be the mains). We play about once a month, smaller venues, but have a few outside gigs as well. I was thinking of getting something in the 500 range to upgrade, since I have about 300 in gift card money to put towards the purchase. The DBR's, Mackie SRM550's, and EV ZLX are on my radar. Can you give me some thoughts? I listened to the EV's next to JBL EON612 or 615's and definitely thought the EV's had a much clearer sound. We're looking for better sound quality, more low end, and more headroom. I've also thought about just getting a sub. Thanks. My thoughts are that 1 good speaker is better (much better) than 2 .... "eh" speakers and that $500.00 isn't much to by even 1 good speaker with. I do understand though. We can always wish we had more, but wishing it doesn't make it so. My grandmother used to tell me to wish in one hand and S*** in the other and let her know which one fills up You should be able to get a Yamaha DXR15 (one of them) for $500.00 used. One of these is going to stomp all over any pair of speakers we have been talking about here so far. When you get another gift card, get another DXR15 to go with it. Do this ..... Go to your local guitar center and audition each of the speakers mentioned here. Then give a listen to the DXR15. I think that will be all that is necessary to convince you. Good luck and let us know what you end up with! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jesseweiss Posted July 14, 2015 Author Members Share Posted July 14, 2015 It doesn't make a lot of sense to get 1 DXR speaker at a time, since I'm using it for the band. Local guitar center has almost nothing, but that's where I heard the ZLX's. There others like an hour away that I might travel to, but of course I have to balance that with taking time out of my life. We played using a DJ's DXR's (maybe they were DSR's) a few months ago. They were nice and the sound quality was good, but honestly were louder than we needed (and we aren't particularly quiet). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wesg Posted July 14, 2015 Members Share Posted July 14, 2015 What does "using it for the band" have to do with the number of speakers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted July 14, 2015 Members Share Posted July 14, 2015 What does "using it for the band" have to do with the number of speakers?There are a lot of folks convinced you have to use two . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jesseweiss Posted July 15, 2015 Author Members Share Posted July 15, 2015 You're suggesting I run 1 speaker for vocals and guitars and drums for a band? Wouldn't the one speaker have to be twice as loud and the spread of music from the stage be much different? Unless the speaker was centered on stage, one side of the room would get more sound than the other. Or am i completely misreading what you are saying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tomm Williams Posted July 15, 2015 Members Share Posted July 15, 2015 No, most of what you said was correct however a second speaker only adds 3 db, not "twice" as loud. However....... I think the point that was being made was that (given the right situation) you don't have to use speakers in pairs. If you mix only in mono ( which most do) and the coverage angle and position of a single speaker can achieve what you need, a second speaker isn't a must. Now that being stated, I can only recall a rare few situations that could be adequately covered by a single speaker. And if you pan or mix anything in stereo, a second speaker is a must. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jesseweiss Posted July 15, 2015 Author Members Share Posted July 15, 2015 Thanks for the clarification. I'm assuming only 3 db added because of overlap and wave cancellation? I'll have to look into the science of that. ( I'm a MS science teacher). We do pan out guitars to compensate for the amps being on opposite sides of the stage. I actually just got a Mackie SRM550 used at GC for 300. So even with tax and warranty it cost me 160 after using my gift cards. Going to test it, 60 days to return, and if I'm happy I'll get another used using my Amex (extended warranty) for 400. I'm going it works out because I'll a decent upgrade for less than 600. Still might take a look at the RCFs at GC someone mentioned if I feel like driving 2 hours each way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted July 16, 2015 CMS Author Share Posted July 16, 2015 Different GC? I wouldn't drive that far for a speaker demo unless it was an outstanding bargain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wesg Posted July 16, 2015 Members Share Posted July 16, 2015 Jesse, the seemingly-small 3dB gain has nothing to do with wave cancellation. It is due to the fact that the Bel is a logarithmic scale. We use this scale largely because we perceive sound logarithmically. When you double power, you increase sound pressure by 3dB, by definition. http://geoffthegreygeek.com/amplifier-power/ Wes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OneEng Posted July 16, 2015 Members Share Posted July 16, 2015 Thanks for the clarification. I'm assuming only 3 db added because of overlap and wave cancellation? I'll have to look into the science of that. ( I'm a MS science teacher). We do pan out guitars to compensate for the amps being on opposite sides of the stage. I actually just got a Mackie SRM550 used at GC for 300. So even with tax and warranty it cost me 160 after using my gift cards. Going to test it, 60 days to return, and if I'm happy I'll get another used using my Amex (extended warranty) for 400. I'm going it works out because I'll a decent upgrade for less than 600. Still might take a look at the RCFs at GC someone mentioned if I feel like driving 2 hours each way. This is definitely an upgrade from Behringer speakers. The RCF's 312a's are much better sounding to my ears. The Mackie SRM450 had some reliability issues IIRC, but I haven't heard much on the SRM550. I suspect it will be more reliable than the Behringers you were using Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jesseweiss Posted July 17, 2015 Author Members Share Posted July 17, 2015 Jesse, the seemingly-small 3dB gain has nothing to do with wave cancellation. It is due to the fact that the Bel is a logarithmic scale. We use this scale largely because we perceive sound logarithmically. When you double power, you increase sound pressure by 3dB, by definition. http://geoffthegreygeek.com/amplifier-power/ Wes I knew it was logarithmic, I guess I just wasn't equating doubling the power with adding a 2nd speaker of equal power, since one is within the same speaker and thus the same area of the cone, whereas with a 2nd speaker you are doubling the output and the area giving you a 6db increase. But I guess I'm wrong. I know 6db wouldn't necessarily be perceived as doubled, but it would be closer. Thanks for the clarification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jesseweiss Posted July 17, 2015 Author Members Share Posted July 17, 2015 This is definitely an upgrade from Behringer speakers. The RCF's 312a's are much better sounding to my ears. The Mackie SRM450 had some reliability issues IIRC, but I haven't heard much on the SRM550. I suspect it will be more reliable than the Behringers you were using I know the RCF's are supposed to be much better, but with that much driving involved I didn't bother. My understanding of the SRM's is that they have much better reliability than the 2nd gen SRM450's. I got a 2 yr warranty on it for like $40 so hopefully it will work out. For now it was a good option. Bought a 2nd used one on Ebay today for $400. So in essence I got 2 used speakers that would cost $1200 new for about half that (and also half used K12's). I figure worst case if I can afford PRX/K12/DXRs in the future, the Mackie's can replace the Behringers as mains. Now to sell of our older Behringer B212a's to somebody for like $250 who wants to use them to DJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted July 21, 2015 CMS Author Share Posted July 21, 2015 I know the RCF's are supposed to be much better, but with that much driving involved I didn't bother. My understanding of the SRM's is that they have much better reliability than the 2nd gen SRM450's. I got a 2 yr warranty on it for like $40 so hopefully it will work out. For now it was a good option. Bought a 2nd used one on Ebay today for $400. So in essence I got 2 used speakers that would cost $1200 new for about half that (and also half used K12's). I figure worst case if I can afford PRX/K12/DXRs in the future, the Mackie's can replace the Behringers as mains. Now to sell of our older Behringer B212a's to somebody for like $250 who wants to use them to DJ. I don't know about what you were told about the reliability, but the newer SRM's haven't really been out long enough to establish a reputation. But the 2nd gen 450's didn't have a reliability problem, per-se. There were a LOT of them sold, so failures would be more numerous in aggregate but perhaps not by percentage. I've heard the issues of cutting out when used horizontally as wedges, but have seen plenty sitting out in the hot summer sun and running fine. Either way I think you made a good and reasoned choice. Good luck, and let us know how you like them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jesseweiss Posted July 21, 2015 Author Members Share Posted July 21, 2015 I don't know about what you were told about the reliability, but the newer SRM's haven't really been out long enough to establish a reputation. But the 2nd gen 450's didn't have a reliability problem, per-se. There were a LOT of them sold, so failures would be more numerous in aggregate but perhaps not by percentage. I've heard the issues of cutting out when used horizontally as wedges, but have seen plenty sitting out in the hot summer sun and running fine. Either way I think you made a good and reasoned choice. Good luck, and let us know how you like them... I got a 2 year extended warranty on both for like 35 each so that gives me some comfort. Trying to plan next step, this would be with upcoming gig money. Could either get a newer mixer, really just to get one knob compression, or a small sub. Anyone have any experience with any of the 12" subs? Trying to limit weight since I sometimes have to move stuff alone. I was thinking something I'm the 600 range. The little EV is a good size. Behringer has a small inexpensive 12 sub that I could get 2 of. As with the Mackies I got, I'm open to used and willing to wait to find the right deal. Let the suggestions fly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tomm Williams Posted July 21, 2015 Members Share Posted July 21, 2015 You've just made your first step past Behringer, don't step back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jesseweiss Posted July 21, 2015 Author Members Share Posted July 21, 2015 You've just made your first step past Behringer' date=' don't step back.[/quote'] Well put!!!! A lot of the subs are big and heavy, so I'll have to do some research. Any thoughts on compression? Thinking it might help even out the mix and help the vocals stand out more. I could get an outboard compression rack or just get a new mixer that has the one knob which will be much easier to use. Will the sub or compression do more to improve sound? I know it's apples and oranges, but just looking for some help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tomm Williams Posted July 21, 2015 Members Share Posted July 21, 2015 Yes both can help with sound but in different ways. The sub can take some of the load off your mains in the lower region improving the end result. You should also HPF everything but the bass and kick which helps further. Compression is great when used properly and a friggin' train wreck when not. Processing is done for specific reasons or problems so tread lightly with comps. There are many great analog rack mount units out there to choose from but take your time to learn how they work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members modulusman Posted July 21, 2015 Members Share Posted July 21, 2015 I got a 2 year extended warranty on both for like 35 each so that gives me some comfort. Trying to plan next step, this would be with upcoming gig money. Could either get a newer mixer, really just to get one knob compression, or a small sub. Anyone have any experience with any of the 12" subs? Trying to limit weight since I sometimes have to move stuff alone. I was thinking something I'm the 600 range. The little EV is a good size. Behringer has a small inexpensive 12 sub that I could get 2 of. As with the Mackies I got, I'm open to used and willing to wait to find the right deal. Let the suggestions fly. I have one of these.http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/yamaha-dxs12-12-active-subwoofer?pfm=sp One of them keeps up with a pair of DXR10s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DanteSound_Don Posted August 1, 2015 Members Share Posted August 1, 2015 Why not consider the Mackie SRM1850? It gets pretty loud, has nice drive and punch and can be set up by one person. I have a set of these with SRM550's as tops and they sound really really good. They have paid for themselves many times over in rental income during the year I've owned them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jesseweiss Posted August 2, 2015 Author Members Share Posted August 2, 2015 Why not consider the Mackie SRM1850? It gets pretty loud' date=' has nice drive and punch and can be set up by one person. I have a set of these with SRM550's as tops and they sound really really good. They have paid for themselves many times over in rental income during the year I've owned them.[/quote'] Weight was my my concern which was why I was going for something smaller and lighter. Obviously it should pair well with the 550s since they are from the same line. I too worry a little about Mackie and quality control. I got the 550s because they were the best fit for my budget used. I'm not sure I'm down with 900 for the SRM1850 when I can spend 200 less for Yamaha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jesseweiss Posted August 2, 2015 Author Members Share Posted August 2, 2015 And yes I know the Mackie is more powerful on terms of watts but it's bigger, at least in size, and puts out the same SPL as the Yamaha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DanteSound_Don Posted August 2, 2015 Members Share Posted August 2, 2015 The SRM 1850 has set and forget settings for compatibility with the rest of the SRM tops. I haven't heard the Yamaha, and I'm sure it soumnds good for it's price range. I will tell you that two SRM550's over two SRM1850's will kick some serious a$$. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jesseweiss Posted August 2, 2015 Author Members Share Posted August 2, 2015 The SRM 1850 has set and forget settings for compatibility with the rest of the SRM tops. I haven't heard the Yamaha' date=' and I'm sure it soumnds good for it's price range. I will tell you that two SRM550's over two SRM1850's will kick some serious a$$.[/quote'] I couldn't afford 2 but i figure even 1 would be a good addition. I'm aware that they made to work together. Not out of the possibility of getting the srm. Would probably need to find a great deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.