Members stunningbabe Posted April 30, 2012 Members Share Posted April 30, 2012 WHy is it that 1 amp can produce more 'low' frequencies than another Amp that has the same wattage? What makes the 1st amp that 'edge' in producing stronger 'lows'? Better transformer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members srp72ee Posted April 30, 2012 Members Share Posted April 30, 2012 Overall design and product quality are the big determining factors. This is where a manufacturer's reputation play a big part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted April 30, 2012 CMS Author Share Posted April 30, 2012 Who says the amps have the same wattage? Who says one actually produces more lows? How are you determining this? Before we can say, "all things being equal", we need to know they are equal. Right off the bat, input sensitivity can make two "equal" amps very unequal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stunningbabe Posted April 30, 2012 Author Members Share Posted April 30, 2012 Craig...with both amps driven at full volume on the input sensitivity...is that a fair comparison? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soul-x Posted April 30, 2012 Members Share Posted April 30, 2012 Craig...with both amps driven at full volume on the input sensitivity...is that a fair comparison? Do you mean the input attenuators maxed? No -- that will not account for the difference in input sensitivity of two amps (if there is one). To do that, you need to back off the attenuators on the more sensitive amp by the appropriate amount. What are the two amps in question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stunningbabe Posted April 30, 2012 Author Members Share Posted April 30, 2012 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Crown-CE1000-CE-1000-Professional-Power-Amplifier-Amp-Rack-Home-Musician-BEAST-/370606865218?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5649e3fb42 vs http://www.ebay.com/itm/QSC-USA900-POWER-AMPLIFIER-550-Watts-channal-2-OHMS-/300702809933?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item460348bf4d Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stunningbabe Posted April 30, 2012 Author Members Share Posted April 30, 2012 I AB'd this 2 amps side by side through a good guy friend..cos it's too heavy for me to move it around. We both concluded that the Crown amp gave stronger lows. Wonder why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soul-x Posted April 30, 2012 Members Share Posted April 30, 2012 The QSC actually has the higher input sensitivity among the two. That is unless the Crown is configured internally to its .775v mode, in which case the Crown would seem much louder for the same input. Unfortunately, The CE1000 has a very, very poor reliability record. I'm talking failure rates of half or better at this point in their life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted April 30, 2012 CMS Author Share Posted April 30, 2012 Yeah, the specs are pretty similar, other than the Crown having 35w higher output @ 8ohms. And as soul-x stated, B-inger-like reliability. I'd also have to see the listening conditions for this A/B test before I drew any more conclusions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted April 30, 2012 Members Share Posted April 30, 2012 Yah, you see them damned QSC USA amps all over the place because they don't have the decency to die when you want to buy the "latest and greatest" - almost as "bad" as the RMX . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Al Poulin Posted April 30, 2012 Members Share Posted April 30, 2012 Yeah, the specs are pretty similar, other than the Crown having 35w higher output @ 8ohms. And as soul-x stated, B-inger-like reliability.I'd also have to see the listening conditions for this A/B test before I drew any more conclusions. Actually , the Behringer EP amps have proven to be much, much more reliable than the Crown CE line... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soul-x Posted April 30, 2012 Members Share Posted April 30, 2012 Actually , the Behringer EP amps have proven to be much, much more reliable than the Crown CE line... Styrofoam axe handles are more reliable than the Crown CE line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted April 30, 2012 Members Share Posted April 30, 2012 I AB'd this 2 amps side by side through a good guy friend..cos it's too heavy for me to move it around.We both concluded that the Crown amp gave stronger lows. Wonder why? Were you switching both amps into a single speaker, or did you have 2 speakers. I would suspect that speaker placement (if you used 2 speakers) is a bigger factor in what you heard than the ability of the power amps themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sibyrnes Posted April 30, 2012 Members Share Posted April 30, 2012 All good amps have a frequency response that is very close to flat. If an amp is producing more low end, it is probably also producing more mid and high end too. The idea that a certain amp is better suited for low end is, in my opinion, a myth. Most high end, pro touring systems use the same type of amp for all frequency ranges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted April 30, 2012 CMS Author Share Posted April 30, 2012 Were you switching both amps into a single speaker, or did you have 2 speakers. I would suspect that speaker placement (if you used 2 speakers) is a bigger factor in what you heard than the ability of the power amps themselves. Yep, Don knows where I was going with this, and took the shortcut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted May 1, 2012 Members Share Posted May 1, 2012 Was there a HPF included on the USA series? If the USA series was very old, it's architecture inculdes effectively output coupling caps in it's signal path (returning through the power supply). One symptom of beginning of failure is a shift down in capacitance reducing bass response. I serviced hundreds of these amps (the RMX-850 is identical) over the years in the cinema industry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stunningbabe Posted May 1, 2012 Author Members Share Posted May 1, 2012 We compared both amps with 1 speaker. The issue here is not the speaker...but with the volume maxed out, 1 amp gave a stonger bass response when playing the same song. It was not a lot of difference like night and day...but you can sure hear it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted May 1, 2012 Members Share Posted May 1, 2012 The issue here is not the speaker...but with the volume maxed out, That's the problem. The "gain" of each amp is different so you are not making a fair comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stunningbabe Posted May 1, 2012 Author Members Share Posted May 1, 2012 That's the problem. The "gain" of each amp is different so you are not making a fair comparison. How then to make a fair comparison? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stunningbabe Posted May 1, 2012 Author Members Share Posted May 1, 2012 Both amps' volume sounded the same when maxed out. One is not louder than the other. is this not fair enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sibyrnes Posted May 1, 2012 Members Share Posted May 1, 2012 Both amps' volume sounded the same when maxed out. One is not louder than the other. is this not fair enough? Please re-read my post. If one amp is producing more low frequencie, it is probably louder at all frequencies. As you listen to program material at a louder volume, the lows seem to be louder in relation to other frequencies giving the illusion that a louder amp produces more low end. Were you using some sort of measuring device or were you relying on your ears? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stunningbabe Posted May 1, 2012 Author Members Share Posted May 1, 2012 Please re-read my post. If one amp is producing more low frequencie, it is probably louder at all frequencies. As you listen to program material at a louder volume, the lows seem to be louder in relation to other frequencies giving the illusion that a louder amp produces more low end. Were you using some sort of measuring device or were you relying on your ears? I am serious when I said that both amps' Volume sounded the same when maxed out. Neither is louder than the other. I know it is not accurate to compare a louder amp than the other....but since both amps sound the same volume...I think it's pretty fair to compare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soul-x Posted May 1, 2012 Members Share Posted May 1, 2012 Take a look at Agedhorse's post. You're talking about a ~20 year old amp with the USA model. It is entirely likely that some component shift (especially capacitors) has occurred by this point. Has it ever been serviced? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted May 1, 2012 CMS Author Share Posted May 1, 2012 Both amps' volume sounded the same when maxed out. One is not louder than the other. is this not fair enough? What you describe as your testing conditions leaves so many uncontrolled variables that it's very difficult to say what could be responsible for your perceptions, vs measurable findings. It's objective results vs subjective opinion. There's no arguing either of them, but there's no comparing them fairly either. All things considered, I'd go with Andy's comments regarding component failure starting to occur in the USA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stunningbabe Posted May 1, 2012 Author Members Share Posted May 1, 2012 Take a look at Agedhorse's post. You're talking about a 20 year old amp with the USA model. It is entirely likely that some component shift (especially capacitors) has occurred at this point. ON the Contrary...the Crown amp was used a lot more on a fixed venue in a lounge for more than 10 years. The USA amp was kept at home and hardly used....and it is in mint condition. I got to compare both cos the owner of both amps wanted to sell both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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