Rehearsal Studio mic selection hyper-cardioid, super-cardioid, plain cardioid?

[summit111]

My Brothers,

Time to standardize the 4 vocal mics in our 24' x 20' rehearsal studio. We've got a jambalaya of different mics, and it's an ongoing chore to eq them.

 

Any suggestions as far as polar patterns for feedback rejection. Volume is under control but I want to standardize the mics. Some are hotter than others, with varying frequency response.

 

Budget=$150 each or less.

 

Thanks,

[Chaff67]

My vote goes for the EV ND767/A.

[Marko]

Have you been experiencing feedback problems?

[Jorge7]

Starting from your past experience, do any of the "jambalaya" mics sound good to you? What are the problems with each of them? Sound? Gain before feedback? Handling noise? Any constraints as to where the vocal monitors are in relation to the mics, ie in or out of null zone for cardioid, supercardioid, etc? If you play out, what mics do you use for live performances? What is wrong with those mics for rehearsals? Give us some more hints here and we can be more helpful.

[dboomer]

Polar patterns for feedback rejection depend on where you place and aim your monitors in relation to your mics. Super-cardioid mics as a class are no better than cardioid mics as a class in rejecting feedback. "Hyper" and "Super" are more marketing terms than anything else. They are generally superior in avoiding stage wash (if you have a pretty loud stage) but that comes at the cost of even response of the vocalist. If the singer moves just a little off axis the tone goes to hell. Cardioids otoh are much more forgiving here. It's a trade off.

 

Another major factor in play here is the ceiling height and your distance to the back and side walls from your mic position. If your monitors are moderately loud but your stage is pretty small you'll probably end up bouncing the monitor off the walls/ceiling and back into the on axis pickup of the mic.

[Shaster]

As usual I'd like to back the train up. OP, are you saying that you don't own any mics for live performance? If that's the case, purchase mics that would best suit your live performance and then work within those parameters. Buying a mic specifically for rehearsal purposes seems odd to me.

 

IMO almost any decent mic should be fine for rehearsal. The exception might be if you are setting up the band as if they were in a live performance. But again you would then likely use the mics for rehearsal that you would use live. Again, IMO if you're worried about feedback for rehearsal then you're either too loud or you've messed up the EQ somewhere.

[summit111]

My Brothers,

The main problem is feed back. The ceiling is low and slopes from 7' to 8 '. In that room, a Shure PG 58 sounds the best for whatever reason. Only thing thru the PA is vocals and keyboard. I'm thinking about adding some 2' x 4' acoustic panels to the walls. My gain structure looks fine. It's only occasional feedback. We have 2 JBL Mrx 15" in diagonal corners with 5 musicians. Drums are in control. The one SM 58 is weak and we're forced to bring his gain up. The other AKG's don't seem to be the problem.

[summit111]

One more thing, when we play live, we use all SM 58's with no problem, but it's usually in a larger more open space. I might set up the rehearsal space with the SM 58's and see what happens. Right now we have an SM 58, PG 58, and two cheap AKG's.

[Tomm Williams]

 

My Brothers, The main problem is feed back. The ceiling is low and slopes from 7' to 8 '. In that room, a Shure PG 58 sounds the best for whatever reason. Only thing thru the PA is vocals and keyboard. I'm thinking about adding some 2' x 4' acoustic panels to the walls. My gain structure looks fine. It's only occasional feedback. We have 2 JBL Mrx 15" in diagonal corners with 5 musicians. Drums are in control. The one SM 58 is weak and we're forced to bring his gain up. The other AKG's don't seem to be the problem.

 

 

Have you worked at all with changing the speaker location? ,could do wonders for you. As far as a mic recommendation-----------Oh boy, take your pick, there's a plethora of great mics out there to be had. SM58's are the standard with lots of alternatives.

[Tomm Williams]

 

One more thing, when we play live, we use all SM 58's with no problem, but it's usually in a larger more open space. I might set up the rehearsal space with the SM 58's and see what happens. Right now we have an SM 58, PG 58, and two cheap AKG's.

 

 

Why the mic switch?

[summit111]

We keep the SM58's packed up with the traveling gear, and rehearsal mics are just whatever people brought over. Kinda like a collection. Thought that might be the problem. Will experiment with speaker placement next. Easy to do...

[Jorge7]

OK, the additional information is helpful.

1) Yes, try unpacking those 58s and try using all 4 of them for a rehearsal. SM58s are caridoid so aim the axes of all mics 180 degrees away from the closest monitor that has that mic in it. Speakers in diagonal corners just about guarantees that each mic will have one or both speakers out of its null zone, so:

2) With EQs flat, experiment with moving the speakers around to see if you can find particularly good or bad locations for them with regard to both the best sound and the least feedback. Low sloping ceiling, try to reduce bounce off the ceiling by having the vocals monitors on stands pointing right at your ears and turn the speaker volume down to compensate.

3) Experiment with monitor mixes so you can minimize unnecessary content in each monitor. 5 musicians, 2 monitors, 2 auxes should not be too difficult but it is worth tweaking.

4) Once you have a rough location for your speakers, do a soundcheck and identify the main feedback frequencies and cut them with a parametric EQ or a 31 band EQ by the minimum amount needed to stop the feedback. You may try moving speakers again slightly or moving mic stands a bit to optimize by trial and error. Practice good mic technique - close to mic, on axis, leave mic in stand if possible.

5) I agree to choose your mics for performances and if possible use the same ones or same models for rehearsals. Either pack them separately so you can use them for both performances and rehearsals or buy a few more of the same mics for rehearsals/backups.

[summit111]

Jorge7'

My Brother, thanks for the thoughtful and detailed response. Will definitely try your suggestions!

[Miko Man]

To the extent that your rehearsal mics are duplicates of your performance mics, I would think that having a full set of back-ups would be comforting. (In the event of damage, failure, or heaven forbid, theft. Maybe I'm just paranoid....) Mark C.

 

p.s. I dig the salutation you use in your threads. Way cool.

[summit111]

Miko Man, the salutation is a southern thing down here, showing respect to others in the same boat. Rich, Poor, Black, White,

Asian, Latin, Creole, Cajun. We have a common thread and I'm acknowledging it.

 

Like the famous New Orleans greeting, "Where 'ya at" The roots for that comes from when two musicians see each other and ask where have you been playing lately. Making sure the other guy is OK.

[agedhorse]

Are you sure your rehearsal SM-58 is not s fake or counterfit?

 

Try your 4 gig mics and see how that works out first.

[summit111]

My Brother Aged,

Now that you mention it, that rehearsal 58 has always been weak, meaning that I have to push the gain higher on it than the others. We used it on stage once and had a hell of a time getting the singers volume up compared to the other 58's.

 

That 58 came from MusiciansFriend.com. What should I look for?

[SteinbergerHack]

What monitors are you using, and what do have driving them? How are they arranged, and where do they point? Any EQ? If so, how did you arrive at your EQ curve?

 

There are lots of things that cause feedback and insufficient gain - mic selection is only one variable. It may be as simple as moving some things around......that's far less expensive than $500+ worth of new mics.

[agedhorse]

You probably won't be able to tell unless you are really familiar with what a genuine one looks like internally, AND have a known genuine one there to compare with. BUT... you may be more easily able to tell with a side by side comparison of handling noise, sound and gain before feedback.

 

 

My Brother Aged, Now that you mention it, that rehearsal 58 has always been weak, meaning that I have to push the gain higher on it than the others. We used it on stage once and had a hell of a time getting the singers volume up compared to the other 58's. That 58 came from MusiciansFriend.com. What should I look for?