Members wankdeplank Posted February 26, 2015 Members Share Posted February 26, 2015 Fair enough. Context is everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bucksstudent Posted February 26, 2015 Members Share Posted February 26, 2015 I've been playing for a decade and there are still people on the internet who say I suck. You can find plenty of people foaming at the mouth on forums about how Jimmy Page sucks or they don't get Robert Fripp so he sucks. It's all subjective crap and doesn't matter. Everyone sucked at first, everyone has moments when they suck, and everyone keeps making mistakes. There are days when I want to throw my guitar across the room because I'm having a bad day and I'm not relaxed enough to play anything. I've yet to meet a perfect guitar player or any musician. And if you don't suck sometimes, who do you learn how to get better? Unless you suffer from Dunning-Kruger, you'll know when you make mistakes. Everyone is their own worst critic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members knotty Posted February 26, 2015 Members Share Posted February 26, 2015 Woah! Deep breaths Bucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Minning Around Posted February 27, 2015 Members Share Posted February 27, 2015 Tell him, "okay for a beginner". Everyone was a beginner at one point...except Mozart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1001gear Posted February 27, 2015 Members Share Posted February 27, 2015 Also you can make faces at their websites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Steve2112 Posted February 27, 2015 Members Share Posted February 27, 2015 I've been playing for a decade and there are still people on the internet who say I suck. You can find plenty of people foaming at the mouth on forums about how Jimmy Page sucks or they don't get Robert Fripp so he sucks. It's all subjective crap and doesn't matter. Everyone sucked at first, everyone has moments when they suck, and everyone keeps making mistakes. There are days when I want to throw my guitar across the room because I'm having a bad day and I'm not relaxed enough to play anything. I've yet to meet a perfect guitar player or any musician. And if you don't suck sometimes, who do you learn how to get better? Unless you suffer from Dunning-Kruger, you'll know when you make mistakes. Everyone is their own worst critic. Not entirely true. We have an example here CLEARLY the subject matter is no worst critic of himself. And if subject matter thinks he's so good already...how indeed does he get better? Somebody gots to tell him. I have a lot of people tell me don;t be so hard on myself. I personally subscribe to your theory- it only makes me strive hard to be better (not that I'm all that good- just "better" than I was before (I HOPE)). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bucksstudent Posted February 27, 2015 Members Share Posted February 27, 2015 Steve, hence my reference to Dunning-Kruger: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect It's a funny thing, because the "Outsider" genre is entirely based on this idea. I'd say some of my music is so bad it doesn't even qualify for Outsider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1001gear Posted February 28, 2015 Members Share Posted February 28, 2015 Steve, hence my reference to Dunning-Kruger: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect It's a funny thing, because the "Outsider" genre is entirely based on this idea. I'd say some of my music is so bad it doesn't even qualify for Outsider. I think that's just ignorance - or maybe that's obvious. I kinda give beginners the slack and hold veterans to stiffer criteria. Of course pros have that "it's my living" excuse but barring that, if the music ain't happening, TS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Steve2112 Posted February 28, 2015 Members Share Posted February 28, 2015 Steve, hence my reference to Dunning-Kruger: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect It's a funny thing, because the "Outsider" genre is entirely based on this idea. I'd say some of my music is so bad it doesn't even qualify for Outsider. I was talking about your assertion that "everyone is their own worse critic". It would seem that you contradicted yourself I guess. "Everyone" and "unless you suffer from DKE" = NOT everyone. As fas a DKE; ", highly skilled individuals tend to underestimate their relative competence, erroneously assuming that tasks which are easy for them are also easy for others." Are you suggesting that everyone who is highly skilled and underestimates their relative competence "erroneously" assume tasks easy for them are also easy for others? Not true. I wouldn't call myself highly skilled but as I said I tend to think I am not as talented as others say I am. Whatever level I am at was NOT easy at all for me. I also realize that it comes both easier and harder for others. I am not sure I know ANYONE of talent that thinks it comes as easy to others. MOST of the talented people I know have worked EXTREMELY hard. The statement I quoted does not compute in my experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bucksstudent Posted February 28, 2015 Members Share Posted February 28, 2015 Are you being serious right now? "Everyone is their own worst critic" is a figure of speech. And I didn't write the Wikipedia article on the Dunning-Kruger effect. All I know is that it's a lack of self-awareness and one believes they're highly skilled when they're not, often to the point where they fail to see the talent of others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Steve2112 Posted February 28, 2015 Members Share Posted February 28, 2015 Are you being serious right now? "Everyone is their own worst critic" is a figure of speech. And I didn't write the Wikipedia article on the Dunning-Kruger effect. All I know is that it's a lack of self-awareness and one believes they're highly skilled when they're not, often to the point where they fail to see the talent of others. Of course I am serious...I thought you were too. Okay- fine you didn't mean "everyone" literally, although not sure how I was to tell. I know you didn't write the wiki, but you seem to subscribe to it. I quoted a passage there where it says something other than what you just said. Now I will paraphrase; "people of talent think it comes just as easily to other people" It's in the first paragraph of your source. That statement is a problem for me, because far more often people of talent had to work VERY hard at it, and (imo) rarely do they think it should come as easy to othgers in fact quite the opposite. Now as I said I don;t feel myself remarkably talented in guitar or music- but i *DO* think that most people COULD enjoy playing guitar with minimal effort. Don't have to be a Malmsteen or Segovia to enjoy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bucksstudent Posted February 28, 2015 Members Share Posted February 28, 2015 The Dunning Kruger effect is sort of a form of mental illness. It doesn't apply to everyone. I'm pretty sure the article doesn't stipulate that it does. I never insinuated otherwise. It's simply a secondary source, and this isn't an academic forum (otherwise I wouldn't use Wiki in the first place), and I simply linked to the article. You're free to disagree with the article, but I never said the part your paraphrased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Steve2112 Posted March 2, 2015 Members Share Posted March 2, 2015 Well then don't take it so personal My original reply to you on the matter was twofold. The ""EVERYONE" is his own worst critic". Which you clarified that it was just a saying. I probably woouldn't say anything like that since by your own admission it's not true- but okay- just a saying fine. The second part was to start a discussion about the subject YOU brought into the discussion. The source you linked has some flaws that you don't want to talk about. I even QUOTED a direct passage from it...not out of context. I paraphrase "talented people think it comes as easy to others". Not even REMOTELY true. The quote makes ZERO sense...but now we have to qualify it with "mental illness" It's not even a ":mental illness" to think you are so great and the center of the universe- that is basic human nature. LOL Whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1001gear Posted March 2, 2015 Members Share Posted March 2, 2015 Fat folking hed is a mental illness? Let's talk about Reverb Nation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Temple of Light Posted March 11, 2015 Members Share Posted March 11, 2015 Something else occured to me, in that the definition of suck has become applicable & relevant for millions of players, seeing as how many millions of examples of pure genius, perfection and performance has been set by so many players, and what it is that we as musicians all aspire to, and are accustomed to...Just think how many bands that have managed to make radio airplay, then times that by a thousand or so {per guitarist}, times the last fifty years or so of Rock and Roll, and the standard of sonic acceptability is exceedingly, excessively and prohibitively high; everyone is not only jaded, completely saturated by and enveloped by sound, there is really little left to say with the relatively limited language of guitar, as applied to the entire sonic spectrum. Especially as harnessed by the 21st tech we now take for granted...Unless... of course, you know what the masters know, that the muse is the only vehicle left to harness, extract and capture the unknown, unheard and unplayed...copying, mimicry and imitation can only get you so far, somewhere, sometime, somehow,you need to develop and distinguish your own voice amongst and above the maelstrom of that which is already known and heard.Knowing theory, modalities, key signatures and fretboard techniques will only amplify and accelerate that stream of creativity...which in perspective, is the only thing moving any of us forward...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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