Members 1001gear Posted January 15, 2015 Members Share Posted January 15, 2015 Guys post their Youtubes all the time and of course it's average amateur weighted crap and they're expecting accolades. Options include, lie, ignore, pull punches, start flaming, ... I often opt for bluntness. Go through the flight check. Timing, Intonation, Flow, style ... wuttevuh. Usually all will be some degree of fail. Then you get the "That's not constructive advice" crap. At this point you can drop it and move on or in day's yore the Cavalry would already be there with the flaming arrows. Never pretty. Anyway I care enough about music that if asked I'll try and peg the level accurately. Take it or leave it. I do leave the pros alone. Too many of 'em suck period but pointing that out is pointless and they do have gladiator skills. End subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tall Posted January 15, 2015 Members Share Posted January 15, 2015 I would just leave it alone and find excuses not to play with him anymore. It maybe that he thinks it is good playing and doen't know any better. If he starts playing with other people they will be sure to let him in on the fact and if he really wants to learn how to play he will. So basically what several other people here said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members speakerjones Posted January 15, 2015 Members Share Posted January 15, 2015 If you think you have something to offer, offer to give him a couple of lessons/pointers. Honestly there are tons of beginners out there who forego the traditional path of getting proper lessons in favor of learning from youtube vids and inaccurate tabs. Problem with not having a teacher there to guide you is you'll never know when you're doing it wrong. Sounds like that's the case here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Uncle Bastard Posted January 15, 2015 Members Share Posted January 15, 2015 I'm crap, and I know it: I can do rhythm, and that's enough for me. Your man is at the first stage of learning, of which there are four: 1 is unconscious incompetence, 2 is conscious incompetence, 3 is conscious competence and 4 is unconscious competence. The thing is, it's up to him if, how, and when he chooses to try and progress. If he's happy playing for himself as he is, so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MorganB Posted January 15, 2015 Members Share Posted January 15, 2015 You should start a band like Metallica cause you sound like Jack White and you will probably be the next Big Thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted January 15, 2015 Members Share Posted January 15, 2015 Awesome thought of the day, agree completely...... but off-topic The first line explains it. Be the guys mentor not a critic. Telling the guy he sucks does no one good including yourself. Besides you never know who will actually succeed and who wont. One of the worst players I knew back in High school used to drive me nuts wanting me to play in a band with him. On top of that he was probably the most unattractive guy in that school. Most of the other musicians never wanted to have anything to do with the guy and when he came up with stories about knowing all these famous musicians we all though he was full of crap. Well, all those stories wound up being true AND he made a pretty good mark in the industry was well. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Ponti Not many can claim they wrote songs for hit bands but knowing him, I hear those bands and I know the guys writing style. Both my old bass player and Drummer were in on his first album Surgin' – When Midnight Comes and both helped him write some of those songs. I was playing in a band with Southside Johnny's brother at that same time. We used to all play the same clubs up there in Asbury Park during the 70's and 80's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members PRSJim Posted January 15, 2015 Members Share Posted January 15, 2015 Look at the people who walk away from American Idol auditions who insist that the judges are tone deaf idiots. Their parents, friends, lovers, kids tell them how great they are, so obviously the judges are the idiots and their support group can't be lying to them. This person may live in such a fantasy. If he's not being paid thousands or even hundreds of dollars a night to play badly, let it go. He'll either give up, keep sounding like crap, or improve. It won't change your day. That would be my take. If you have to say something, be direct, don't beat around the bush. That said, I'd let it go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hellion_213 Posted January 15, 2015 Members Share Posted January 15, 2015 Be the guys mentor not a critic. That line explains it. I see now where you were going. Cool story about Jack Ponti man! Sucks you didn't jam with him in HHigh School, but cool that you knew him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grant Harding Posted January 15, 2015 Members Share Posted January 15, 2015 Let him have his fantasy if it keeps him motivated. You or someone else can have a Gordon Ramsay moment with him later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members CranachTheElder Posted January 15, 2015 Members Share Posted January 15, 2015 Break his guitar and kick his dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted January 16, 2015 Author Members Share Posted January 16, 2015 Deep you are the wrong one to judge, never having heard the song. Believe me its awful. I Couldnt sit through the original. He was playing along with the CD so I did get to hear the original. Granted it's not what I listen to but what set my teeth on edge was that his playing didn't sound anything like the CD. He, OTOH, thought it sounded exactly the same. When I have time I'm going to look at the tab and play along with a YouTube vid or something and then I'll have some hints for him. I definitely don't want to just say "You suck" without having something positive to offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members knotty Posted January 16, 2015 Members Share Posted January 16, 2015 He was playing along with the CD so I did get to hear the original. Granted it's not what I listen to but what set my teeth on edge was that his playing didn't sound anything like the CD. He, OTOH, thought it sounded exactly the same. When I have time I'm going to look at the tab and play along with a YouTube vid or something and then I'll have some hints for him. I definitely don't want to just say "You suck" without having something positive to offer. I was only joking deep. I know you have respect for his feelings and only want to help. On a constructive note I would record him. Cd on one channel him on another. Then let him hear himself alone. The penny should drop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted January 16, 2015 Members Share Posted January 16, 2015 That line explains it. I see now where you were going. Cool story about Jack Ponti man! Sucks you didn't jam with him in HHigh School, but cool that you knew him. We were in the same classes in school and took the same music theory class. We'd get together after school and I'd teach him to play a bunch of songs he wanted to learn. It was difficult because he had extremely small hands and at best could only play power chords. We even did a concert together at that year. Later I was playing with guys more at my speed and doing original music. He formed his own band doing Original Kiss type music and we became friendly competitors when we started hitting the clubs. His musician skills weren't very good at first but he had excellent coaching from people like Alice Cooper putting on highly professional well produced shows doing the Glam Rock thing that was big back then. I was more into the Blues Rock thing so our styles really didn't mix very well so we followed different musical career paths very early on. He may not have been a very good player in the beginning but he taught me several important lessons. 1. Music is a business like any other and it takes money to pull off a well produced show. 2. You can hire good talent to play your music if you pay them. 3. The man with the paycheck is the boss. 4. A record contract is no more than a bank loan. If you take the money, you have to turn a profit with it. Failing to pay the loan back involved bankruptcy and reduces the chances of ever getting another contract to make another album. 5. An album doesn't have to be a big hit in your country of origin. In his case his first album sold very well overseas and more then paid back his loan. 6. Travel or move where the action is if you want to be popular. If you live in a small town, you may become the best in that town but you want to be great you have to play where the hit bands gig. 7. You need competition to challenge yourself to become the best. This occurs within the band with other good players and from without, gigging with other bands. 8. Good and bad criticism, It doesn't matter if people think you're great or suck. They may even hate you. What matters most is you got a reaction and they do talk about you. If you stick with it long enough you may even gain their respect for caving in to their criticism. When you talk bad about someone, there's always going to be someone who listens and judge their opinions in polar opposite of what you think. I could go on and on, but principals like this can help to focus your energies instead of just using blind faith. You can even buy books on the topic that state all these same things and explains the psychology in back of these things. They didn't have those books when I was a beginner. I was pretty naïve when it came to the business looking back and missed many opportunities. Main thing is, the guy who is out there playing to an audience doesn't have to be the best player. He may suck in comparison to you but he has you beat you hands down because he is out there doing it and you aren't. People discover you when you're out there in the lime light, not sitting on your butt wishing someone will come knocking on your door. Being a wise business man surely doesn't hurt either because working deals to get jobs and getting paid for those jobs is what supports your art so you can play for a living. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bernardo gui Posted January 16, 2015 Members Share Posted January 16, 2015 Suggest that he try another instrument like: Spoons, Washboard, Kazoo or Jews Harp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1001gear Posted January 16, 2015 Members Share Posted January 16, 2015 The guy is a friend? Why not rib him. "Dude ... not even close." What actually is the problem anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members badpenguin Posted January 16, 2015 Members Share Posted January 16, 2015 So, I guess pulling out his power chord on the amp is out...? Seriously though, yes, he is a beginner, we all were at one point. but even beginners need to be "guided" into giving what they are doing a serious listen. The idea that Knotty suggested, the 2 track recording is a good one. (Never thought I would ever say a sentence that said that! ) Be constructive, but be brutal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hellion_213 Posted January 17, 2015 Members Share Posted January 17, 2015 Killer man! Never really thought about a contract being a loan, but I guess tis true. Sage advice for anyone looking to make it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Danhedonia Posted January 17, 2015 Members Share Posted January 17, 2015 " I don't, however, think he should go through life thinking he's playing well when he isn't." Why not? The important question here is: do you recognize that as your need and not his? Making someone feel bad to fulfill your need is crummy; that's why so many folks here suggest saying nothing. Because you will only accomplish a negative goal. You have two choices: be a nice guy, and smile and move on. Or if you really wish to help him develop as a player, you need to learn how to promote growth and teach. In other words, he's not the only one who needs a little learning up, here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Danhedonia Posted January 17, 2015 Members Share Posted January 17, 2015 Adding on: You could say "show me how you figured out that part." and then show something else that he's missing. And then you can offer positive encouragement: "you really got the right key." or whatever. If you wish to encourage someone, you seek for ways for them to feel good about themselves. If you wish to show someone your superiority, you are not trying to encourage them, you are serving your own ego. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Virgman Posted January 17, 2015 Members Share Posted January 17, 2015 This is how to handle it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jtr654 Posted January 17, 2015 Members Share Posted January 17, 2015 Give him time to get better he a beginner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members billybilly Posted January 17, 2015 Members Share Posted January 17, 2015 What I don't get is how people can think they're "the sshhitt" when they are not at all. In my experience, people like that won't even hear you no matter how critical you are. I've changed my mind, you should tell him he's delusional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted January 18, 2015 Author Members Share Posted January 18, 2015 " I don't, however, think he should go through life thinking he's playing well when he isn't." Why not? The important question here is: do you recognize that as your need and not his? Making someone feel bad to fulfill your need is crummy; that's why so many folks here suggest saying nothing. Because you will only accomplish a negative goal. You have two choices: be a nice guy, and smile and move on. Or if you really wish to help him develop as a player, you need to learn how to promote growth and teach. In other words, he's not the only one who needs a little learning up, here. I see. So wanting someone to be a better player with a more realistic notion of his/her skills--and being willing to help--is somehow sick, sadistic, and self-serving. Good to know. I was going to learn and practice the song and play it along with him and gently ask if he could hear differences between the two versions. I think I'll just start making excuses not to listen to him play. Thanks all for the advice but ultimately I can see that this is a no-win situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grant Harding Posted January 18, 2015 Members Share Posted January 18, 2015 Actually - one of my big motivators was when I was 15 and jammed with a guy that was an excellent musician and played in a really popular band that had a killer lead player. My buddies had obviously told him that I was "really good" when in fact I was mediocre compared to pros. When we had finished jamming he said to me "I thought you were going to be better based on what I've heard." I spent the next couple of days wanting to punch him, then the next 30 something years (and counting) working to prove him wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Danhedonia Posted January 19, 2015 Members Share Posted January 19, 2015 I did not say sick or sadistic, so lighten up. But yes, it's self-serving. He's already happy; you're not. Whose agenda are you serving? I understand that you think he'd be in a better spot improving, but the reality is that his improvement is far more likely to occur with encouragement than with negative feedback. Especially if he's feeling good about where he is. Asking him to try and hear how much better you are really is in service to yourself. I do believe that you have good intention, but try and think this through from the perspective of your friend, and I think you will see that .... .... you're correct: it's a no-win situation. I would wait until he seeks opinion or information; it's very clear from your story that he wanted affirmation, and you don't want to give it. That's not healthy, though the stakes are small. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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