Members agedhorse Posted November 30, 2012 Members Share Posted November 30, 2012 It depends on how smart your interface is (and how familiar you are with it) Still, it's easier to see and confirm everything at a glance when there's controls and indicators per channel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChiroVette Posted November 30, 2012 Members Share Posted November 30, 2012 Aged, if I have no aspirations to doing sound on any kind of a regular basis for anyone else and only for my own band from stage, would it be correct to assume that the difficulties you alluded to with the Presonus and other digital mixers shouldn't be an issue for me? I mean, I always arrive at all my gigs very early, leaving me plenty of time to set up, and I am not mixing band after band. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarguy19 Posted November 30, 2012 Author Members Share Posted November 30, 2012 Aged, if I have no aspirations to doing sound on any kind of a regular basis for anyone else and only for my own band from stage, would it be correct to assume that the difficulties you alluded to with the Presonus and other digital mixers shouldn't be an issue for me? I mean, I always arrive at all my gigs very early, leaving me plenty of time to set up, and I am not mixing band after band. And if not running sound from the stage? We have a full time member that will run ours from FOH. One thing that we're into is the ability to save settings and stuff. I would think that would be quite useful when moving from room to room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted December 1, 2012 Members Share Posted December 1, 2012 If it's just for you, then it really doesn't matter and convenience of not having to deal with outboard gear or other people's expectations (some are certainly unreasonable but it is what it is) then go for what makes you happy. If I was looking for a mixer for "my band", and assuming I was willing to spend the time to fully understand how it works and sort out the workflow, then I would probably choose either a MixWiz or an SL as the 2 best bang for the buck rigs. I used a Crest XR-20 for this exact purpose, the entire rack was pre-wired and rolled in, the rig set up completely in 15 minutes and worked 100% flawlessly every time. Of course it was all pro level gear because there were some pro level expectations, but it was still for convenience sake in addition to performance. Aged, if I have no aspirations to doing sound on any kind of a regular basis for anyone else and only for my own band from stage, would it be correct to assume that the difficulties you alluded to with the Presonus and other digital mixers shouldn't be an issue for me? I mean, I always arrive at all my gigs very early, leaving me plenty of time to set up, and I am not mixing band after band. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted December 1, 2012 Members Share Posted December 1, 2012 And if not running sound from the stage? We have a full time member that will run ours from FOH. One thing that we're into is the ability to save settings and stuff. I would think that would be quite useful when moving from room to room. Saving settings is fine as long as you set up exactly the same every time, use the same mics in the same positions, same monitors, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarguy19 Posted December 1, 2012 Author Members Share Posted December 1, 2012 If I was looking for a mixer for "my band", and assuming I was willing to spend the time to fully understand how it works and sort out the workflow, then I would probably choose either a MixWiz or an SL as the 2 best bang for the buck rigs. Good to know that we're looking at the right 2 rigs at this point. In yours and others on here that have used these desks before...is the learning curve that bad really? Again I won't be the one using it. I consider our sound man to be pretty sharp/tech savvy and he's shown no real trouble in figuring out different PA systems when we play at various venues where they're provided. However none of them have been digital. He definitely is interested in this board and I believe him when he indicates he has an interest in learning how to use it, but from a management standpoint, I want to make sure he doesn't bite off more than he can chew. So from those that have used it...coming from someone that can figure out any analog board he's come across so far without trouble...is the learning curve that steep? Is it intuitive to learn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lonotes Posted December 1, 2012 Members Share Posted December 1, 2012 Good to know that we're looking at the right 2 rigs at this point.In yours and others on here that have used these desks before...is the learning curve that bad really? Again I won't be the one using it. I consider our sound man to be pretty sharp/tech savvy and he's shown no real trouble in figuring out different PA systems when we play at various venues where they're provided. However none of them have been digital. He definitely is interested in this board and I believe him when he indicates he has an interest in learning how to use it, but from a management standpoint, I want to make sure he doesn't bite off more than he can chew.So from those that have used it...coming from someone that can figure out any analog board he's come across so far without trouble...is the learning curve that steep? Is it intuitive to learn? As someone with a MixWiz, but wanting to move toward a SL, I've viewed a lot of YouTube videos and read a lot of forum posts about the SL. It seems to me that the learning curve for the mixer section on the SL would not be significantly different from the MixWiz. Where it begins to get deeper is when you start looking at the routing, EQ, and dynamics options on the SL. On the MixWiz you can only route to the auxes and the LR buss. There are no subgroups to deal with. You have a simple (but very nice) 4 band semi parametric on each channel, and nothing on the auxes or the LR buss. There are no dynamics at all, unless you add them outboard. With the SL, you have choices everywhere. 4 subgroups. 4 band available on every channel strip as well as every aux, every subgroup and the LR buss. Or you can choose to use a 31 band in (I think) 4 or 8 locations, depending on which model you're using. Comp, gate, and limiter available on every channel strip, every aux, and the LR buss. In my case, since I already have 16 channels of dynamics available through outboard gear that has to be manually patched in at every setup, and I'm already quite familiar with a Mackie d8b digital recording console in the studio, I feel that my transition will be fairly seamless as I can already understand the mechanics behind the menus and buttons. To someone just starting out, start 'em with the simple stuff like setting input gain and levels. Add in the other stuff a bit at a time. And at least with the SL, there won't be any concern about setting proper gain structure between the console and the outboard dynamics and effects gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twostone Posted December 1, 2012 Members Share Posted December 1, 2012 is the learning curve that bad really? Again I won't be the one using it. So from those that have used it...coming from someone that can figure out any analog board he's come across so far without trouble...is the learning curve that steep? Is it intuitive to learn? If your referring to the Presonus Studio Live mixer the learning curve was easy for me since I switch over from Peavey RQ analog mixer to a Presonus SL 1642 mixer 2 years ago, and never used a digital mixer in my life in the past. So after watching all the tutorial videos and researching which PC laptop was compatible I was mixing and recording a gig 2 days after I bought my SL mixer. However just keep in mind the catch 22 with the SL mixer is the additional cost for a compatible PC/Mac computer for the recording feature and the other bundled software features. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members StratGuy22 Posted December 1, 2012 Members Share Posted December 1, 2012 I had a Yorkville PowerMax16. I sold it and bought the SL24.4.2 brought it home on friday and then mixed 6 bands on Friday and 6 bands on sunday as well. Sink or swim. I had a couple gain issues that weekend but got everything straightened out and it's been fine ever since. I was basically mixing with my gains to begin with, all my faders at unity. After switching to setting the signal at -15db fr everything and actually mixing with my faders, things have been good ever since. The computer is a nice addition but you don't need it right of the bat. I mix for all kinds of bands and also mix our band from the stage. The nice thing about the different scenes etc is that our bands sound checks go really quick. We did a new room in a different town, a legion so a nice sized stage and a pretty decent size room. I chose a similar room and loaded up the scene. Set the gains, went out front and had them play a song to set the mix. They played Some Kind of Wonderful. Our bassists wife was blown away that I had the mix dialed in an was playing with the band by the time the solo rolled around, which I played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted December 1, 2012 Members Share Posted December 1, 2012 The learning curve is pretty short untill you get into trouble and then it's easier to loose sight of where you might have gone wrong, especially in routing and fx. You should be more disciplined as the device offers more options, otherwise it's easier to get lost and forget what you did to get where you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tomm Williams Posted December 2, 2012 Members Share Posted December 2, 2012 The learning curve is pretty short untill you get into trouble and then it's easier to loose sight of where you might have gone wrong, especially in routing and fx. You should be more disciplined as the device offers more options, otherwise it's easier to get lost and forget what you did to get where you are. This is what keeps me away from digital boards. I realize they have many more options and once mastered, can be great pieces of equipment BUT----------------when I use my A&H GL2800, I can see everything without scrolling through menus. I admire folks like JRBLE who can fly on a digital console, I don't see one in my future. Looking long and hard at the MixWiz monitor board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members StratGuy22 Posted December 2, 2012 Members Share Posted December 2, 2012 True. Just because there's 42 built in compressors and gates, that doesn't mean you should compress and gate every channel etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted December 2, 2012 Members Share Posted December 2, 2012 True. Just because there's 42 built in compressors and gates, that doesn't mean you should compress and gate every channel etc. Tell that to the kids... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sibyrnes Posted December 2, 2012 Members Share Posted December 2, 2012 This is what keeps me away from digital boards. I realize they have many more options and once mastered, can be great pieces of equipment BUT----------------when I use my A&H GL2800, I can see everything without scrolling through menus. I admire folks like JRBLE who can fly on a digital console, I don't see one in my future. Looking long and hard at the MixWiz monitor board. You really need to try a SL! You'll be surprised. It is closer to analog than it is to other digital boards. Seriously! I mixed a few times on an LS9 and hated it, even though it offers many more features than the SL. The interface of the Studio Live really is as quick and efficient as an analog board and that is what sold me. There are a lot of happy SL users out there that have discovered that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted December 2, 2012 Members Share Posted December 2, 2012 See, I kind of like the M7 and LS9 interface but not as much as a PM style. It depends what I am doing as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Axisplayer Posted December 2, 2012 Members Share Posted December 2, 2012 Originally Posted by sibyrnes It is closer to analog than it is to other digital boards. I have often seen it referred to as digilog. It IS significantly simpler than other digital boards, because it is less powerful than most digital boards. SL is a relative simple to operate digitial console with SOME digital capabilities behind an interface meant to entice entry level digital users. It is what it is. Nothing more.If you want a little bit of the power of digital, a SL will fit the bill. It is what it is. Nothing more. It won't come close to the power of a Yamaha/Soundcraft/etc. For some it might be perfect, but is far from a product that should be held up as as a wonderful example of digital consoles. It is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sibyrnes Posted December 2, 2012 Members Share Posted December 2, 2012 If you want a little bit of the power of digital, a SL will fit the bill. It is what it is. Nothing more. It won't come close to the power of a Yamaha/Soundcraft/etc. For some it might be perfect, but is far from a product that should be held up as as a wonderful example of digital consoles. It is not. Of course that is your just your opinion and you really are selling the SL short! Have you used one? Believe it or not, there are many of us with the knowledge and experience to also have an informed opinion. Mine is that the interface is what makes the SL a "wonderful example of a digital console." As I have stated before, I'm just glad we have enough choices to make us all happy.Sorry if I am coming of as confrontational - that's not my intention. It's just that one could get the impression from some of the posts here that the only people using the SL are people that don't know any better and that is not always the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tomm Williams Posted December 2, 2012 Members Share Posted December 2, 2012 Originally Posted by sibyrnes You really need to try a SL! You'll be surprised. It is closer to analog than it is to other digital boards. Seriously! I mixed a few times on an LS9 and hated it, even though it offers many more features than the SL. The interface of the Studio Live really is as quick and efficient as an analog board and that is what sold me. There are a lot of happy SL users out there that have discovered that. Part of the situation is that it's not just me. I have a buddy who works for me on bigger events and I can't throw in a piece of equipment he doesn't understand either. I get the advantages of digital but when you get comfortable with something and everything flows------------hard to find a reason to change. Not saying "Never" but I can say "Not Now". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarguy19 Posted December 2, 2012 Author Members Share Posted December 2, 2012 Originally Posted by Axisplayer I have often seen it referred to as digilog. It IS significantly simpler than other digital boards, because it is less powerful than most digital boards. SL is a relative simple to operate digitial console with SOME digital capabilities behind an interface meant to entice entry level digital users. It is what it is. Nothing more.If you want a little bit of the power of digital, a SL will fit the bill. It is what it is. Nothing more. It won't come close to the power of a Yamaha/Soundcraft/etc. For some it might be perfect, but is far from a product that should be held up as as a wonderful example of digital consoles. It is not. The advantages we are really liking about the SL (and I suppose digital desks in general) is the ability to eliminate the rack of extra processing, and the ability to record some live performances at our own free will. Granted I'm sure there are more features available on more complicated consoles, but the ease of use is also a strong upside for us. What features are missing that are really necessary for a group in our situation? It has gates/compressors/eq and everything built in, plenty of channels, and recording capability. What are we missing, really? Perhaps the ease of use should be stressed as an upside and not...meh...it's just for entry level bozos. Just sayin'...I appreciate your input Axis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sibyrnes Posted December 2, 2012 Members Share Posted December 2, 2012 Originally Posted by Tomm Williams Part of the situation is that it's not just me. I have a buddy who works for me on bigger events and I can't throw in a piece of equipment he doesn't understand either. I get the advantages of digital but when you get comfortable with something and everything flows------------hard to find a reason to change. Not saying "Never" but I can say "Not Now". I can't argue with that. Most of us are in this business because we enjoy it-use what you like! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members StratGuy22 Posted December 2, 2012 Members Share Posted December 2, 2012 Originally Posted by guitarguy19 The advantages we are really liking about the SL (and I suppose digital desks in general) is the ability to eliminate the rack of extra processing, and the ability to record some live performances at our own free will. Granted I'm sure there are more features available on more complicated consoles, but the ease of use is also a strong upside for us. What features are missing that are really necessary for a group in our situation? It has gates/compressors/eq and everything built in, plenty of channels, and recording capability. What are we missing, really? Perhaps the ease of use should be stressed as an upside and not...meh...it's just for entry level bozos. Just sayin'...I appreciate your input Axis. Again, it's perfect for my needs. Would I like to roll in an M7 for every gig? Sure! Would an LS9-32 be better? Possibly. The SL for my needs is a good fit. Lotsa bang fir the buck. Doesn't break the bank, it's paid for itself a few times over this year already. I love being able to remote mix, that alone saves a lot of legwork. Before I would set the kick level, on stage, then go out front and listen. Back to the stage adjust. Get a snare level, go out front and listen. Back to the stage to adjust. Back out front to hear it vs the kick. Then the toms. Levels for all the toms. Go back out front. Listen and make notes. Back to the stage to adjust. Then back out front to hear the full kit being played. Then back to the stage to tweak the drums. Then the bassThen the guitarsThen the keysThen the vocalsBack and forth back and forth back and forth, countless times. Now, like I said, last gig was at a new venue, and the sound was dialed in with me included, be the time we hit the solo of the song we were using for sound check, thanks to remote mixing with the iPad. Multitrack recording is nice as well. Here's a couple songs I mixed down thru some headphones. Ah the mix is a bit vocal heavy, and maybe a touch too much of the effects, but I literally mixed them down in one pass. Am I going to win a Grammy with them? Probably not. Are they good enough for possible clients to hear what we do?You bet. http://m.soundcloud.com/the-band-wolf/wildhttp://m.soundcloud.com/the-band-wolf/authorityhttp://m.soundcloud.com/the-band-wolf/beerI don't have to worry about fulfilling riders etc, if my company ever does get that big then of course I would buy a rider friendly console. I'm just not expecting Foo Fighters to show up at the venues I provide sound for any time soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted December 2, 2012 Members Share Posted December 2, 2012 As soon as you are juggling multiple monitor mixes and routing/dca's, matricies, the advantages of recallable faders becomes obvious. The real problem is when your needs fall between the two platforms. That's where I am, my large frame analog has everything I need and the workflow is plenty comfortable. A digital board that would be a step up would set me back $20-30k without any increase in income. Terrible r.o.a. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twostone Posted December 2, 2012 Members Share Posted December 2, 2012 Originally Posted by StratGuy22 I love being able to remote mix, that alone saves a lot of legwork. Before I would set the kick level, on stage, then go out front and listen. Back to the stage adjust. Get a snare level, go out front and listen. Back to the stage to adjust. Back out front to hear it vs the kick. Then the toms. Levels for all the toms. Go back out front. Listen and make notes. Back to the stage to adjust. Then back out front to hear the full kit being played. Then back to the stage to tweak the drums. I do the same when mixing my own band on stage but use virtual live band mixing to get a base mix with the remote ipad mixing for referencing how my mics and our backline gear sounds out in the FOH zone and pretty much dialed in a drum mix before the drummer has finished setting up his drums and just do some minor adjustments when we're all set up and ready to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lonotes Posted December 2, 2012 Members Share Posted December 2, 2012 Originally Posted by agedhorse As soon as you are juggling multiple monitor mixes and routing/dca's, matricies, the advantages of recallable faders. Evokes obvious. The real problem is when your needs fall between the two platforms. That's where I am, my large frame analog has everything I need and the workflow is plenty comfortable. A digital board that would be a step up would set me back $20-30k without any increase in income. Terrible r.o.a. So what you're saying is that this product is clearly not aimed at your segment of the market, and would be a bad choice for someone working in your capacity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Axisplayer Posted December 2, 2012 Members Share Posted December 2, 2012 Originally Posted by sibyrnes Have you used one? I have used the 16 and the 24 for a number of shows, plenty to know the boards. I stand by my comments. If it meets your requirements, wonderful. That is your opinion. My experiences with it were far less than acceptable. That is my opinion. I am certain some professionals use them as I know of a few. They are used when appropriate. If I could only afford one console to do my shows, it would not be on any of my lists. As I said, nothing less or more. They are what they are (and I personally dislike a fat channel concept, and find the UI fights my workflow.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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