Members agedhorse Posted December 2, 2012 Members Share Posted December 2, 2012 Originally Posted by lonotes So what you're saying is that this product is clearly not aimed at your segment of the market, and would be a bad choice for someone working in your capacity? It depends, there are some shows where it would be an advantage and some shows where it would be a pain in the ass. I need a console that works well most of the time, and when it's not ideal, it shouldn't turn the gig into a fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sibyrnes Posted December 3, 2012 Members Share Posted December 3, 2012 There is no product made that ideally meets everyone's requirements all of the time(except the SM 58). It's just interesting how the Studio Live seems to get such excessive criticism for not doing so! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted December 3, 2012 Members Share Posted December 3, 2012 Originally Posted by sibyrnes There is no product made that ideally meets everyone's requirements all of the time(except the SM 58). It's just interesting how the Studio Live seems to get such excessive criticism for not doing so! Agreed. I think it's because it falls into neither "purist" camp. It's a complex analog board or a watered down digital mixer. The thing is, for many people, basic processing with a fairly analog layout and full meter bridge, is the right tool for the job. As a company that had never produced a mixer, it was a gamble, but Presonus created a new category, for the most part nailed it on the first try as far as form/function. They also seem to be laughing all the way to the bank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChiroVette Posted December 3, 2012 Members Share Posted December 3, 2012 I don't know, and maybe I am misreading this and other threads regarding the Presonus mixers, but I often get this very strange feeling I only get when I am around cultists when I read these threads. First off, let me say that I am absolutely salivating over the 24 channel SL and that is the mixer I want, hands down. But there seems to be this almost cultist, fanboy allegiance to the board that causes people to act sort of like religious apologists whenever anyone questions the efficacy of the board. I have seen guys like agedhorse, for example, post well thought out criticisms of this class of mixer for various reasons and people either outright accuse him and any other detractors of being overly negative or they just seem a little defensive about it. Seems to me that the SL mixers are fantastic for people who want the most bang for their buck and who are relatively new, particularly to digital boards. They have a lot of amazing features everyone here has elucidated nicely. But sometimes when guys like agedhorse express their opinions, people act as if they have just insulted a close family member lol. This thread isn't bad, but one thread about the SL I remember that there were at least 3 people jumping all over the guy for posting viable opinions and things that for him personally are deal breakers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lonotes Posted December 3, 2012 Members Share Posted December 3, 2012 Originally Posted by ChiroVette I don't know, and maybe I am misreading this and other threads regarding the Presonus mixers, but I often get this very strange feeling I only get when I am around cultists when I read these threads. First off, let me say that I am absolutely salivating over the 24 channel SL and that is the mixer I want, hands down. But there seems to be this almost cultist, fanboy allegiance to the board that causes people to act sort of like religious apologists whenever anyone questions the efficacy of the board. I have seen guys like agedhorse, for example, post well thought out criticisms of this class of mixer for various reasons and people either outright accuse him and any other detractors of being overly negative or they just seem a little defensive about it.Seems to me that the SL mixers are fantastic for people who want the most bang for their buck and who are relatively new, particularly to digital boards. They have a lot of amazing features everyone here has elucidated nicely. But sometimes when guys like agedhorse express their opinions, people act as if they have just insulted a close family member lol. This thread isn't bad, but one thread about the SL I remember that there were at least 3 people jumping all over the guy for posting viable opinions and things that for him personally are deal breakers. I may be mistaken, but I believe that most of the forum members here that support the SL are primarily bar bands that mix themselves, or sound guys that mix bar bands. Agedhorse is a theater guy that works everything from A and B level touring bands to Broadway shows. His needs vary widely from night to night, whereas once the bar guys find a solution that fits, it fits for a long time. It's not surprising to me at all that the SL is not a good fit for him. It's not built with him in mind. It's aimed at guys like you and me, that mix for one or two bands and want all of the effects and processing, but don't want to carry all of the weight or take up all of the space in the truck. Is it a perfect solution? Probably not. Is it a better solution than what I'm using now? I think it will be. If I can wait long enough to buy mine, before I sell off the old stuff, I can always go back if I don't like it. Or if the idea of lifting 200 lbs of EQ's and comps/gates becomes appealing again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members StratGuy22 Posted December 3, 2012 Members Share Posted December 3, 2012 Originally Posted by ChiroVette I don't know, and maybe I am misreading this and other threads regarding the Presonus mixers, but I often get this very strange feeling I only get when I am around cultists when I read these threads. First off, let me say that I am absolutely salivating over the 24 channel SL and that is the mixer I want, hands down. But there seems to be this almost cultist, fanboy allegiance to the board that causes people to act sort of like religious apologists whenever anyone questions the efficacy of the board. I have seen guys like agedhorse, for example, post well thought out criticisms of this class of mixer for various reasons and people either outright accuse him and any other detractors of being overly negative or they just seem a little defensive about it.Seems to me that the SL mixers are fantastic for people who want the most bang for their buck and who are relatively new, particularly to digital boards. They have a lot of amazing features everyone here has elucidated nicely. But sometimes when guys like agedhorse express their opinions, people act as if they have just insulted a close family member lol. This thread isn't bad, but one thread about the SL I remember that there were at least 3 people jumping all over the guy for posting viable opinions and things that for him personally are deal breakers. Right tool for the job maybe. My hammer is really good at pounding nails. I can cut a sheet of plywood in half with the claw end, it will take some time and not be very pretty but I can do it. A saw will work a lot nicer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Axisplayer Posted December 3, 2012 Members Share Posted December 3, 2012 I think the last few comments capture it perfectly. There is nothing wrong with a SL and I know lots of people than own them and are very happy. I never meant to convey it is not a a viable console. It is. It just needs to fit the gig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChiroVette Posted December 3, 2012 Members Share Posted December 3, 2012 Hehehehe Guys, I wasn't pointing a finger at anyone. I just have noticed that when agedhorse gives opinions about things, some people jump down his throat for it. Now as I said, I am definitely leaning heavily toward the SL 24.4.2 because, as you guys said, in a case like mine, it is clearly the right tool for the job. Now aged never once said it was a bad mixer, a poor design, bad quality, or anything that a plain text reading would yield a rant or negative slant against the SL series. I have always found that he clearly states that certain things are not good for a guy at his level but may be good for others. I never once took a single post he wrote about the SL (not in this thread or many others) to mean that this mixer would be a bad choice for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted December 3, 2012 Members Share Posted December 3, 2012 In fact, I have indicated many times that it may be an ideal board for some users, but I have also seen some guys who thought they were doing a fantastic job mixing on one, slapping each other high fives and swaggering about but if they had really known what they were doing and listening to, they would have realized the mega-fail that they were so proud of. Sometimes, complicated tools hinder rather than help the process. Digital boards of this type in general just make this more accessible! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lonotes Posted December 3, 2012 Members Share Posted December 3, 2012 Originally Posted by agedhorse ...but I have also seen some guys who thought they were doing a fantastic job mixing on one, slapping each other high fives and swaggering about but if they had really known what they were doing and listening to, they would have realized the mega-fail that they were so proud of... This phenomenon is not unique to users of the SL, or even to the audio production industry. Idiots are everywhere. The worst part of being surrounded by idiots is realizing that in spite of all of your skills, knowledge, and situational awareness, the idiots were still able to surround you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted December 3, 2012 Members Share Posted December 3, 2012 Originally Posted by lonotes This phenomenon is not unique to users of the SL, or even to the audio production industry. Idiots are everywhere. The worst part of being surrounded by idiots is realizing that in spite of all of your skills, knowledge, and situational awareness, the idiots were still able to surround you. Agreed. The newer digital tools have made the cost of entry lower enabling more of these idiot access. Note that I have seen the same thing with analog consoled as well, so it's more of a general statement of lower cost technology lowering the barrier of ownership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted December 3, 2012 Members Share Posted December 3, 2012 Yep, it doesn't really cost much these days to fill a 16U rack with bottom feeder processing, hook it up wrong, screw up the gain staging then run it all through a speaker processor using wild ass guessed settings or some wizard the user doesn't understand.Digital boards just allow you to do this without the hassle of crouching down to adjust stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lonotes Posted December 3, 2012 Members Share Posted December 3, 2012 Originally Posted by abzurd Yep, it doesn't really cost much these days to fill a 16U rack with bottom feeder processing, hook it up wrong, screw up the gain staging then run it all through a speaker processor using wild ass guessed settings or some wizard the user doesn't understand.Digital boards just allow you to do this with all the hassle of crouching down to adjust stuff Damn it! Don't just stand there, looking over my shoulder and shaking your head. Help me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members srp72ee Posted December 3, 2012 Members Share Posted December 3, 2012 Originally Posted by abzurd Yep, it doesn't really cost much these days to fill a 16U rack with bottom feeder processing, hook it up wrong, screw up the gain staging then run it all through a speaker processor using wild ass guessed settings or some wizard the user doesn't understand.Digital boards just allow you to do this without the hassle of crouching down to adjust stuff Winner...Winner...Winner... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted December 3, 2012 Members Share Posted December 3, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarguy19 Posted December 3, 2012 Author Members Share Posted December 3, 2012 Originally Posted by abzurd Yep, it doesn't really cost much these days to fill a 16U rack with bottom feeder processing, hook it up wrong, screw up the gain staging then run it all through a speaker processor using wild ass guessed settings or some wizard the user doesn't understand.Digital boards just allow you to do this without the hassle of crouching down to adjust stuff The one question I have: is the processing on the SL "bottom feeder" quality? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members srp72ee Posted December 3, 2012 Members Share Posted December 3, 2012 Originally Posted by guitarguy19 The one question I have: is the processing on the SL "bottom feeder" quality? The HP filters in the channels are not as steep as I would like, but that is supposed to be fixed soon with a firmware update. The FAT channel should be treated more like a channel insert.Compared to a $20K board, it could sound like "bottom feeder" quality. But I'll bet you put the $20K board in the hands of a "bottom feeder" and you can't tell the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted December 3, 2012 Members Share Posted December 3, 2012 Originally Posted by guitarguy19 The one question I have: is the processing on the SL "bottom feeder" quality? No, not at all. While I'm sure it's not the best DSP processing money can buy, I've owned my SL for 4 years now and, with the exception of some bugs in the remote mixing and recording, the mixer itself has been flawless as far as mixing goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted December 3, 2012 Members Share Posted December 3, 2012 Originally Posted by srp72ee The HP filters in the channels are not as steep as I would like, but that is supposed to be fixed soon with a firmware update. The FAT channel should be treated more like a channel insert.Compared to a $20K board, it could sound like "bottom feeder" quality. But I'll bet you put the $20K board in the hands of a "bottom feeder" and you can't tell the difference. I'd heard the slope was to be made more steep too, but if it is it was done it was without a user toggle to change from the old -6 dB per octave to the reported new -12 dB per octave. It also wasn't listed in the release notes. I upgraded this weekend and didn't notice the HPF change as far as any settings. I didn't listen to audio through it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted December 3, 2012 Members Share Posted December 3, 2012 Originally Posted by guitarguy19 The one question I have: is the processing on the SL "bottom feeder" quality? Sound quality-wise, I think it's pretty darn good... at least as good as anything in it's price class. Sound quality was not at all an issue for me in my testing. In fact, I could find no sound quality faults, everything I tested it with sounded more than adequate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted December 3, 2012 Members Share Posted December 3, 2012 I think the answer is the same as it ever was ... It's not the tool, it's what can you build with the tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarguy19 Posted December 3, 2012 Author Members Share Posted December 3, 2012 That's good to hear. I consider our full time sound tech to be pretty sharp...we get compliments everywhere we play no matter what system he's operating. I think we may have found ourselves a winner. Think we'll see an uptick in quality from what we're (and I can't believe I'm posting this...) using now??Our current setup...which is used in conjunction with bottom feeder gate/comps (mostly just use the gates for drum mics and that's about it). Damn I can't wait to get rid of this thing. I talk down to it but it's been reliable over the past couple of years. But now that we've added extra vocal channels and a keyboard and stuff to our setup...it's just not appropriate for what we need anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members StratGuy22 Posted December 3, 2012 Members Share Posted December 3, 2012 Growing pains. I really liked my PowerMax16, it sounded great. But I found 12XLR inputs to be more and more limiting. Looked around at a few different passive mixers. Found some info on the StudioLives. I liked the 16, but it was only 4 more channels. I didn't want 16 to be the new limit, so I went for the SL24. 16 months later, if I had to do it all over I'd do the exact same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sibyrnes Posted December 5, 2012 Members Share Posted December 5, 2012 Originally Posted by abzurd I'd heard the slope was to be made more steep too, but if it is it was done it was without a user toggle to change from the old -6 dB per octave to the reported new -12 dB per octave. It also wasn't listed in the release notes. I upgraded this weekend and didn't notice the HPF change as far as any settings. I didn't listen to audio through it though. The new HPF didn't make it into the current upgrade, but they are promising it will be in the next one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted December 5, 2012 Members Share Posted December 5, 2012 Originally Posted by sibyrnes The new HPF didn't make it into the current upgrade, but they are promising it will be in the next one. I wonder why I didn't get my check Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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