DIGITECH VOCALIST LIVE 2 - NOW WITH CONCLUSIONS AND VIDEO CLIPS!

[Anderton]

 

I'm using a Shure SM58 and the unit really gooses the signal. That in fact is another observation I haven't seen pointed out here. The Digitech gooses up both your mic and your guitar signal. I expected it on the vocal mic but I was a little surprised on the guitar signal. I run the guitar out into a Line6 POD XT Live after the Digitech and even with the volume pedal all the way off signal still gets through.

 

 

I used the VL2 with my new band, VL2, today (with Brian Hardgroove from Public Enemy on drums, and me playing Gibson's Digital Les Paul so I can pull out bass, lead, and rhythm sounds at the same time. And if anyone from DigiTech is listening, I'm using an RP250 as an octave divider on strings 4-6, and the GNX3000 on the magnetic pickup output. The sound is HUGE!).

 

Anyway, yes, the output is line level but this is typical for vocal processing units. The reason why is that these devices typically include a preamp to condition the weak mic signal, and it doesn't make sense to cut things back to mic level. I ran the VL2 out into a Bose L1 and just treated the VL2 out like a line level signal...works great.

 

BTW my wife was listening to us practice and said "Who is that singing?!?" Now, she's heard my voice plenty of times before, but the VL2 added quite a dimension to what I was doing, so much so that she wasn't sure it was really me. I used one high harmony and one unison. Using two of the high harmonies sounded too "sweet" for the very hard rock that we're playing, whereas harmony+unison was perfect.

 

As to guitar level, I'm a little confused about your post because with my setup, it was clear that the guitar thru is an exact replica of the guitar in. I didn't have to re-adjust any of my guitar effects settings when I inserted the VL2; it was exactly the same as when I plugged guitar straight in. Are you sure something else wasn't changed somewhere along the line?

[Anderton]

Maybe someone from DigiTech can answer this, but unless I was imagining things, it seems that a decently high mix of unison and harmony sounds allows getting more gain before feedback. I thought about this for a bit, and figured that maybe it's because the signal is different, therefore it's harder to set up a feedback loop...anyone else notice this?

The other thing I had noticed earlier but neglected to mention in this thread is that reaction to changes at the guitar is instantaneous, so if you start with the wrong chorc and correct it, the vocal will follow along. I found this out because there's this slight pause at the beginning of a verse where the guitar stops playing, but the key has changed. The VL2 keys in to the previous chord but as soon as I hit the next chord, the harmony locks right in. As the pause is so short, it's not really a problem.

I have to say, it's one thing to use the VL2 to "test it out" or cut a vocal track, and that's impressive enough. But it's another to use it in a band context, and hear how it fills out the sound...I'm actually even MORE impressed than when I started this thread.

[Chris Hayden]

[Criag wirtes:As to guitar level, I'm a little confused about your post because with my setup, it was clear that the guitar thru is an exact replica of the guitar in. I didn't have to re-adjust any of my guitar effects settings when I inserted the VL2; it was exactly the same as when I plugged guitar straight in. Are you sure something else wasn't changed somewhere along the line?

 

I set it up as directed, from guitar straight into the Digitech "guitar in thru" 1/4 jacks to my POD XT Live and then into my Traynor. I'm using a Parker Fly with Dimarzio pickups which run pretty hot on my wireless as well so maybe its just where the signal is originating from that is making the signal so strong as it goes throught the chain. Its not a big deal, however I have the main patch set up on my POD to act like an old tube amp by which the more volume you feed the more distortion (no so much louder as a break up of the signal like old small 50-60's tube amp, Love that sound!) so I'll have to find a middle ground.

 

One more comment on what Craig pointed out. I notice myself gravitating time an again to Unison 2 with High Harmony (3rd above) on most rock songs as well. We cover a few country tunes like Boot Scootin and Frends in Low Places and on those tunes the 3rd and 5th above sounds outstanding. I still haven't got to use mine yet in a gig situation (can't wait until next Saturday) but I bet its going to make a huge inprovment in our sound. Its so competitive for gigs in Southeast Michigan right now, that you need something that is going to set you apart from the crowd. Most of the cover bands here are pretty good players so I'm hoping to snare more gigs by the polish that this unit is gonna add to our vocals (and were already pretty good at them!)

Thanks for your further input, Craig.

Chris

[fuzzball]

Now I am reconsidering, man I am going to have to go and test this unit for myself at a local store. I want something easy to use, yet is good enough to use in a studio as well as for live applications.

[rodclement]

Hello all,

Just got mine and love it so far, very capable just like its predecessor, and much easier to use than the tc helicon unit, I returned that one.

I am not a tech guy and most of my musical history has been with bands that have sound guys to take care of technical stuff. Recently I joined an accoustic set-up and have been more involved in my on gear, I sing by the way, and don't play guitar.

My idea is to run the the rhythim guitar in my unit to get the correct harmonies, but, has anyone used this unit with vocals alone, with no instrument input? I have doing some accapela stuff and this thing sounds dam fine to me, unison and third up work great so far, and I am getting into more complex songs and taking notes on settings, but does anyone lese have any experience with what I am doing? Please share!

By the way I use either an EV 510 handheld condenser, or a Shure Beta 87a, depending on the venue, preferr the EV...run via the digitech unit and into the mixer. The pre-amp in the unit is very good, the compressor very usable, EQ is good enough for most applications, and harmonies are excellent. I love it so far.

Rod

[Chris Hayden]

I have done some acapella with the unit and also finger style and the VL2 responds real well to both situations. If you have your guitar player run through the unit and you sing through it will work just fine.

[rodclement]

I have done some acapella with the unit and also finger style and the VL2 responds real well to both situations. If you have your guitar player run through the unit and you sing through it will work just fine.

 

 

Thanks for the quick reply! I am so pumped up about this thing! Can't wait to gig with it on Wednesday! It took me days to get something decent out of the TC Helicon unit, minutes with this one! Simplicity in technology, beautiful!

 

Rod

[neuro-feed]

I picked one up today from GC and I've been playing with it for a couple of hours now. Overall I like the results, but I do feel it's a bit limited for live use and I think I'll wait it out to audition the Live 4. (I'm in a cover band and I foresee a lot of bending over to change settings). Also, I didn't notice it at first, but my Live 2 is labeled wrong! The 3 enhance buttons (resonance, clarify, and shine) all appear under the reverb knob/heading, while the Reverb buttons (studio, room, and hall) are under the Enhance knob/heading. It's no biggie and the unit works as it should, but I think I will return it for the correct layout cause it can get confusing. (or wait for the live 4).

[fuzzball]

So the unit does not have to have a guitar plugged in in order to use it? How does the pitch correction know what key to use then?

[Tom in Naples]

To start, I really want to thank everyone who has contributed to this thread, especially Craig. I read it for awhile and felt good about buying the VL2 because of you folks. I've had mine for almost a month now. I ordered it via the phone with Music123 prior to its release. I was very surprised when he immediately offered it to me for $275, took money off a dual 1/4" chord (for stereo vocals), and no shipping.

I play a weekly gig in SW Florida as a solo act with a recently purchased Variax 300 and Carvin PA equipment (8-channel, 1000w, stereo, and 3-way 12" speakers), Boss DR-5 drums, and the VL2. Last week I used the I-Key USB recorder - http://www.ikey-audio.com/ikey.htm - to record my gig so I was able to really hear how the VL2 performed.

The bartenders immediately knew something was up with the vocals and a couple people thought I bought some backing tracks. I said "no, this is live - watch this" and played the E-B-A... to "Nowhere Man" and they were floored. The A-Am section was great. I did "I Shall Be Released" and it was like singing with my old band except the VL2 matched me perfectly.

I'm really loving tapping on and off to get vocals on certain phrases. Heck, if you're really good with it, you could conceivably do "Twist & Shout" doing John singing lead and Paul & George with harmonies. When I did "Wildfire" by Michael Murphy, I sang "She ran and called him" and then tapped for "Wildfire" and it was also perfect for the G-G/F#-Em-A7-Dmaj7 progression.

Also, I pretty much stick to the first high harmony a 3rd above although the low harmony can work if your lead vocal isn't in the basement.

For me, as a solo act, this is about the best piece of gear I've ever purchased.

Thanks again!
Tom

ps - Craig, excuse my ignorance in here but are you the same guy who's Recording book I bought many years ago?

[neuro-feed]

Still fiddling with mine and discovered a "happy" accident. I was running my vocals and guitar through the VL2 into a TC Helicon VSM300 personal monitor and my amp. I had stopped singing and was noodling single notes on the guitar when I started hearing a barely audible guitar harmony. I couldn't figure out why until I realized that my mic (Beta87) was picking up the amp's bleed through. (I could see this being a potentially big problem if you play on a loud stage/loud volumes, so be careful or use a unidirectional mic?). But on a "practical(?)" level, you could use your mic to mic up your amp and get an instant guitar harmonizer or add voicings to your guitar chords! I played with it and it worked perfectly. Much easier to use than my Boss HR-2 too. With a mic splitter box you could conceivably run two mics to harmonize your voice as well as your guitar.

[Anderton]

So the unit does not have to have a guitar plugged in in order to use it? How does the pitch correction know what key to use then?

 

 

You have to feed it SOME kind of reference. As I've noted, it doesn't always have to be guitar, other instruments will work but obviously, it works best with guitar. But that doesn't mean you have to have the audience hear the guitar, of course. If you're doing an a capella part in C#, just play a C# at the beginning and don't worry about it.

 

One thing I found very interesting is I'm working on an arrangement with the band where I'm singing, but the dynamics come waaay down and I'm just playing a muted E note shifting to a G note (both on the sixth string) and back again to the E again, over and over. Yet the VL2 somehow managed to generate an accurate harmony with only this information. Granted, I was using only the high harmony, not trying to do two-part harmonies, but still...

 

I'm starting to wonder if perhaps the unit has a sort of "memory" so that if you've been hitting it with E major after E major and then just hit an E, the unit assumes you want a harmony based on an E major.

[Anderton]

Craig, excuse my ignorance in here but are you the same guy who's Recording book I bought many years ago?

It's extremely likely

[youzzie]

Hello from Finland... very interesting product indeed, and a very useful thread here... I was just wondering, how would this system work with an acoustic nylon-stringed guitar that´s miked with an external mic? How to connect, I guess I shouldn´t just plug the "normal" mic to the guitar-in jack? And what about a condenser mic that requires phantom power?

[Tom in Naples]

I said "many years ago" and I just looked and it was "Home Recording for Musicians" it was way back in '78. Pretty sure I ordered it from an ad in Guitar Player. I still have that Teac 4-track reel-to-reel in my garage. All that bouncing back and forth and hiss but man, it produced a great sounding recording!

Sorry for the digression but your book was a great help and now this - thanks for sharing your knowledge!

[John Bartus]

I used the VL2 live in a solo gig context last night for the first time without ever plugging it in before. It is probably the easiest-to-use incredibly complex piece of technology I've ever used at a gig. It sounded great, and it really is as easy to use as everyone here says it is.

The onboard reverbs are useful and sound pretty good considering that they aren't the main focus of the unit (although the spokesman in the NAMM video said they were Lexicon algorithms, which might explain the quality of the sound). So far, I've shied away from the onboard compressor. It's also nice to have a reverb-kill footswitch right there, too.

I also noticed that it seemed to boost both my guitar and vocal level -- I expected the vocal to remain at a line level, but the guitar level surprised me. (I use a Fishman-equipped Breedlove through a Fishman Aura preamp into the board.) No big deal -- I just adjust the level and off I go.

I have a band gig tonight, and I'm debating on whether to use the VL2. My bandmates also sing, but I'm the only real singer among the three of us. And vocal harmonies are our weakest link. Do I risk offending the other guys by bringing in their vocal replacements? (And we all know how sensitive singing drummers are...)

Hmmm...

[fuzzball]

I say yes to replacing them....I plan on doing that also.

[Anderton]

I have a band gig tonight, and I'm debating on whether to use the VL2. My bandmates also sing, but I'm the only real singer among the three of us. And vocal harmonies are our weakest link. Do I risk offending the other guys by bringing in their vocal replacements? (And we all know how sensitive singing drummers are...) Hmmm...

 

Use the VL2, turn down their mics, and tell them how great their harmonies sound BTW John -- great to see you online here again!

[John Bartus]

Craig,

Although I've semi-occasionally lurked, I'm back to being a full-time musician again. I'm out of politics now for the first time in nearly seven years, and I can't wait to get the studio up and running again. Four nights of gigs each week can't hurt either. Anyway, I'll be a little more regular around here.

Hmmm... neither you nor Bruce ever got down here for that stone crab lunch I promised years ago. Lobster season starts in a couple of weeks, and crab season won't be far behind. Drawn butter is available year-round.

Anyhow, good to be back!

[GlennGalen]

I thought they were shipping some in mid to late July, and I'd love to hear what people who got one are thinking.

[HKSblade1]

I'm getting one. our problem is not vocalists since they can sing. its timing and being near the damn mic/stage for their parts. wireless players and never near the mic when it needs to happen. I've asked and asked. now the vocals are going to be "punched in"

[gc24]

Earliest I heard was in early August by AMS, I think. GlenGalen: Very Nice Work!

[GlennGalen]

GlenGalen: Very Nice Work!

 

Thanks for letting me know you enjoyed my music.

 

[FUBTAG]

I was going to say mid-august is the shipping date.. so we'll see. I am looking forward to gettin the Live-4. I am so looking forward to just being able to sing... I teach my other 'singer' to sing lead, and then I sing the harmony...

[gc24]

Amen to that.