Avid Eleven Rack Guitar Processor/Computer Interface - Now with Conclusions

[roland]

Very cool guys, thanks.

[Jon Chappell]

Originally Posted by Jon Chappell

I discovered this in 1.0.1 almost immediately when simply auditioning presets. If you're quickly searching through sounds for yourself or a client, you'll want to hear the Rigs all at the same loudness (more or less) so that you're not distracted by varying volume levels while trying to make judgments on tone quality alone. Making those volume-normalizing adjustments (by having to go into edit mode) breaks up the flow.

Originally Posted by crazyForce

Another great add was the ability to use the front panel volume knob to control the Rig output volume through all of the outputs including XLR main outputs and the front and back "Output to Amp" outs. Incredibly helpful for live use.

These two related comments are covered in the update list below (emphasis mine):

* Fixed LCD display freezing when receiving multiple MIDI program and

controller messages simultaneously

* Enabled Digital Input when Eleven Rack is using internal clock

* Fixed unwanted converter noise artifacts

* Fixed unwanted EQ quantization noise

* Added new display mode: Rig Volume Controls

* Added new User Option: Persistent Volume Pedal Control

* Added new User Option: Volume Knob can know control Main Volume,

Output to Amp Levels or combination of both. Also provided Main &

Headphone Mute controls.

* Added new User Option: Cab Resonance when Cab is bypassed

* Added new User Option: MIDI CC Reference Chart

Important! If you're doing your due diligence by searching other credible reviews on the Eleven Rack (though none quite so credible as the one you'll find here ), you may come across the Guitar Player magazine review where the writer devotes a whole paragraph to criticizing the lack of a global volume control. That, of course, has been rectified with the 1.0.2 update. This shows that Avid is listening and Avid is responding.

[Anderton]

Let's look at the True-Z input, which is a big deal with Eleven as it captures an element that's very important with emulation.

Plugging a guitar into an amp or effect through a guitar cord creates a complex electrical circuit that involves resistance, capacitance, and inductance. I'm not going to drill you with Electrical Engineering 101 here, but for a layman's description of what this is all about, there are some useful articles on the site: The Truth About Guitar Cords, All About Wire, and for extra credit , Debunking Preamp Myths. Short form: What you plug into affects the tone and even the feel of the guitar.

For example, older solid state effects typically had a fairly low input impedance, which loads down your pickups and reduces highs. Tubes have a high impedance, but this decreases at higher frequencies due to capacitance within the tube (called "the Miller Effect," which FYI has nothing to do with beer). FET inputs have uniformly higher impedances that don't load down pickups if designed not to do so, and these inputs give a crispy, bright sound because they allow all the highs from the pickup to make it to the amp. Some effects have a 100k input impedance, which produces a slight dulling effect, whereas newer effects typically have a 1Megohm input impedance to minimize loading.

So, you may associate a particular sound with a particular amp, but putting a fuzz into the circuit changes the tone in a way of which you might not be aware. It is this sort of behavior that True-Z emulates.

Referring to the first attached image, the default setting - Auto : 1M - is selected. The 1M input impedance gives minimum loading, but "Auto" means that if you insert an effect with different characteristics so that's the first thing your guitar "sees," True-Z will emulate how that effect affects your guitar. If you're thinking "hey, that's cool!" - well, you're right.

However, you're not forced to let Eleven Rack make the decision for you. For example, I'm the kind of guy who didn't like effects loading down my guitar, so I built a buffer board to isolate the guitar by following it with a high impedance input. So, even if my guitar fed a funky 60s stomp box with a low impedance, it didn't load down the guitar...and for me, there's the setting in the second attached image. This presents a 1Megohm input impedance regardless of which effect is first in the chain.

Or maybe you like the slight dulling that a 100k input impedance gives, especially if you're using a single-coil pickup. No problem: check out the third attached image. With this setting, your guitar sees a 90k input impedance (close enough to 100k).

Then again, you might be the guitarist who uses an effect with a low impedance specifically to take out a bunch of highs, thus giving a "creamier" sound with distortion. Then you'll want the setting in the fourth attached image, which loads down your guitar with a 22k input impedance, and emulates the capacitance added by a tube input (which is what "+ cap" means). Note that several choices have the "+ cap" option; in fact, your True-Z choices are:

• 22k ohm + cap
• 22k ohm
• 32k ohm + cap
• 32k ohm
• 70k ohm + cap
• 70k ohm
• 90k ohm + cap
• 90k ohm
• 230k ohm + cap
• 230k ohm
• 1M ohm + cap
• 1M ohm
• Auto: 1M ohm

This is not a gimmick, but a recognition that a very important part of your guitar sounds happens between the pickup output and effect or amp input.

So why no audio examples? Easy: There are already some excellent ones online that accompany a nerd-friendly article on the Avid web site about pickups and impedance. It's well worth checking out if you want to pursue this subject further.

Bottom line: The True-Z concept is a vital part of amp modeling, and kudos to Avid for recognizing this.

[avidgtrpm]

Originally Posted by Anderton

This is not a gimmick, but a recognition that a very important part of your guitar sounds happens between the pickup output and effect or amp input.

So why no audio examples? Easy: There are already some excellent ones online that accompany a nerd-friendly article on the Avid web site about pickups and impedance. It's well worth checking out if you want to pursue this subject further.

Bottom line: The True-Z concept is a vital part of amp modeling, and kudos to Avid for recognizing this.

Thanks for the excellent summary. True-Z has been a very difficult concept to communicate to a lot of guitarists, it sort of has to be played with to understand what it does to your guitar tone.

For those who are less technically inclined or are less interested in the 'how', I often explain it this way: True-Z is an entirely an analog feature. It is a big part of why Eleven Rack sounds and feels very much like the amps and FX we emulate.

Instead of 'modeling' this phenomenon, we are actually electronically recreating the relationship between your guitar and the input of the amp or FX it 'virtually' is plugged into. Ultimately, this relationship is something that you can't 'model' because each guitar is somewhat unique with its electronics. So instead of assuming that a certain type of pickup is going to connect to the input of Eleven Rack, we had to make the input of Eleven Rack actually 'function' like the input of a specific amp or an FX unit. Our thinking was, why fake something when you can give people the real deal?

So, not only does True-Z make the amps and FX in Eleven Rack sound authentic but it allows "my guitars sound and feel like my guitars" (as one of our customer's so aptly put it). Best of all you really don't need to futz with anything to benefit from using this feature. Most of the factory Rigs have True-Z set to 'Auto' in which case it automatically does its thing in the most authentic fashion.

[Anderton]

Originally Posted by avidgtrpm

Best of all you really don't need to futz with anything to benefit from using this feature. Most of the factory Rigs have True-Z set to 'Auto' in which case it automatically does its thing in the most authentic fashion.

Let me add it also accommodates me, who has been using a consistent 1M buffered input for about the past 35 years. As a result, my sound depends on NOT interacting with what's happening downstream. I also know guitarists who always go through something like a particular sustainer first, and it might have a 100k impedance - they can simply set 90k as the default.

However, I'd also add that this provides a good opportunity to experiment. Just as some mic pres have a variable input impedance so you can pick the "best" impedance for your mic, True-Z lets you find out what your guitar would sound like with various loading options.

[PBGas]

Great intro and review, Craig! Well done!

I've actually been enjoying mine for the last couple of months and I have to say, I've been super impressed with the tones I have gotten, the ease of use and intuitive nature of the whole unit and how it basically solved several issues for me with regards to recording guitar. It really is an awesome unit. When you get deeper into the editing, you can really tweak things to the point where you can't tell the difference between the real thing and this. The models are superb. I'm hoping that Avid includes more amp models and cabs in their future firmware updates and that they keep the support rolling for this gear tool.

The only negative piece that I have found at this point is the onboard tuner...it works fine but it's a bit jumpy. I also had to globally re-set mine because for some strange reason, I lost my headphone output. However, interfacing with Pro Tools, I was able to back up all of my pre-sets and settings and re-import them back to the machine with ease. Love the interface as well. Again, very intuitive and it really feels like you are playing an amp!

I've had no issues with running this as my main interface for my home studio. When hooked up, everything plays through it perfectly from my Mac. Also, by using this unit, I've taken the CPU load from the machine to allow me to have more plug-ins available. It works great!

I'm doing some work over the next month for Pixar and I'm bringing this unit along with my Diezel Herbert into the studio up here and it should be great to compare the full recorded tone of the Herbert with what I can get from the 11R. (Hint....please Avid....model the Diezel so then I only need to take one piece of gear with me!) ;-)

This is a great unit and I am so happy with my purchase!

[Anderton]

I agree completely about the intuitive nature of Eleven Rack. I think I've alluded to this several times, but it bears repeating because to me, an important "feature" of any piece of gear is not having to strain your brain to use it.

[Anderton]

One of the occupational hazards of doing a pro review is that when a trade show happens, the review comes to a halt for a while. The main reason is that I can't take my studio with me when I travel! The second is that I do a lot of videos at shows - over a hundred for Winter NAMM, so there's a period of time after the show where I'm working my butt off on editing videos rather than doing pro reviews.

But as luck would have it, the timing here is actually pretty good. I'm just about ready to get into using Eleven Rack with Pro Tools, so before NAMM I'll finish up the "I'm using the rack live" element of the review, take a trade show/video editing break, then when I return, we'll get into the whole Pro Tools/interface/editing aspects, which are pretty exciting.

Meanwhile, let's finish up the front panel editing aspects. One important editing function is being able to change the position of effects in the signal chain - for example, you might like EQ before the compressor, or after the compressor (or as shown in the screen shots, changing Delay from after FX1 to before the Mod).

It's easy enough to do: You turn the Scroll wheel to select the effect, then hit the Move button (see the first attached image). Now when you turn the scroll wheel, it moves the effect along the signal chain to the left or right. Once you have the effect where you want it, hit Move again to toggle it off (see the second attached image), and there you have it - the effect is where you want it to be.

Note that you can also put the hardware FX loop any where you want in the signal chain. The only modules that don't move are the Amp and Cabinet, which also stick together as a pair. Therefore, all effects are referenced as either pre- or post-amp/cab.

We mentioned the little boxes that let you know what page you're on when you're scrolling through pages that have different sections of the series effects chain, however, it's also worth noting individual modules can have the same boxes. For example, in the third attached image, note the boxes circled in white - the filled-in box indicates you're on the module's first page. In the fourth attached image, the box for the second page of controls is checked.

[avidgtrpm]

 

Originally Posted by PBGas

The only negative piece that I have found at this point is the onboard tuner...it works fine but it's a bit jumpy.

 

Thanks for the feedback on this. Along with several other possible improvements, we are looking into improving the accuracy and ballistics of the tuner. This can be somewhat of a subjective issue but we think we can make it better for everybody. If this is something we can get out to customers in the near term, I will let you know.

[avidgtrpm]

Originally Posted by Anderton

Note that you can also put the hardware FX loop any where you want in the signal chain.

Just another clarification in regards to where you can position the FX Loop. While you can position it before and after the amp+cabinet emulation, it is limited to 4 locations:

1. at the head of the signal chain ('Rig Input')
2. immediately before the amp & cab ('Amp input')
3. immediately after the amp & cab ('Amp Output')
4. at the very end of the signal chain ('Rig Output')

Why this limitation? This is one of these tradeoffs we had the assess based on the DSP architecture of the product. If we allowed the FX Loop to be positioned anywhere in the signal chain, there would be some additional throughput latency with locations other than the four mentioned above. We really wanted to make sure Eleven Rack felt right in the hands of discriminating guitarists so we decided that the limitation of placement was an acceptable tradeoff for the fastest possible throughput.

[Anderton]

Originally Posted by avidgtrpm

Just another clarification in regards to where you can position the FX Loop. While you can position it before and after the amp+cabinet emulation, it is limited to 4 locations:

1. at the head of the signal chain ('Rig Input')
2. immediately before the amp & cab ('Amp input')
3. immediately after the amp & cab ('Amp Output')
4. at the very end of the signal chain ('Rig Output')

Thanks for the clarification, but you might find this interesting: To see where the FX loop could go, those were the only four positions I tried because to me, they were the most crucial ones - given the effects included in Eleven Rack, I figured any external piece would either condition the guitar at the beginning, add overall processing at the end, do something right before the amp, or do something right after the amp. So, I guess I agree with your decision concerning this tradeoff - especially as it keeps latency at bay.

[Anderton]

 

Originally Posted by avidgtrpm

Thanks for the feedback on this. Along with several other possible improvements, we are looking into improving the accuracy and ballistics of the tuner. This can be somewhat of a subjective issue but we think we can make it better for everybody. If this is something we can get out to customers in the near term, I will let you know.

 

With any tuner, not just the one in Eleven Rack, I use the neck (bass) pickup and turn down the tone control. That always seems to make a bug difference in terms of stability. However, I also must admit I've become addicted to the Robot Tuning technology, so I don't really use tuners all that much these days...

[fuzzball]

Nice review. I tried to get them to send me a unit to review (or get me one at a discount) and use for project presentations at our college but they never answered my request. I get a small budget from the college each year for this but I am currently out and I have to pay out of pocket.

It was a shame because I was going to use it in my "best bang for the buck" portion of my audio seminar which would have been seen by many.

PRS treated me great recently and I know my seminar at least helped them sell 20+ guitars in the last month.

[Mats Nermark]

Originally Posted by avidgtrpm

Eleven Rack will also work with Pro Tools HD or M-Powered systems but not as an audio interface.

Hi Hiro,

Why did Avid decide to handicap the unit this way?

Cheers,

Mats N

[Mats Nermark]

Hi Hiro and Craig,

Great to see a Pro Reviw of this unit. I have tried it and wonder the following:
1. Why are the so few models of clean amps? I do need a model for high headroom clean duties like funk and country. A Twin would be nice. Did I miss that?

2. Why is there no real stereo chorus?

3. Why is there no stereo delay?

4. Will there be updates to the 11R? Not just bug fixes but new FX and amp models? If no, why not? If yes, how will they be distributed and what approximate cost? I understand both business models. I buy Boss products for what they are not expecting more but I buy software with a definite expectation of updates and this product can belong in either camp.

5. Why did you decide to make it possible to run the editor in PT only and not as a general VST plugin or, even better, a stand-alone app?

Looking very much forward to this test.

Cheers,

Mats N

PS. I absolutely loved the feel of the 11R and the models of the Flexi and AC30 left me wanting one.

[marsbere]

Thanks for the excellent review. I've had one of these since November. It is by far the best guitar recording device I have ever used. Mars

[Parker Fly]

Great review Craig. I have been using this device live since January without any real issues...I forget at times that I am not playing through a traditional amp...the Plexi is an amazing amp model (I hesitate to call it a model) and my son believes that my AC30 sounds better than his actual AC15....great job AVID....a bass model and a vocal channel strip would complete the picture.

[ContraStudio]

Hi guys first time poster here, just got off from a long day of work and what a treat to have read this blog.
Im really at the point were I just might go out on buy a 11R but it's a bit of a tie with the new Line 6 rack that came out. I own a Podxt Pro for my recording studio as well as almost every gtr plugin out there. The one huge issue I find with almost all of these gtr emulators is it doesn't feel close to the real deal were i want to go out and drop 900$ for 11R. Where I can go and save up for a API lunch box with 512c/560 or a SSL w/e and learn how to record great sounding gtr tracks. What I'm trying to say is I really want to be sold to the 11R vs some other studio gear but I'm just not seeing it yet.

Ps Im a metal junky and I record tons of metal bands so 11R has to really come close to the sound of metal, not some weak dull treb crunch over mid tone that claims to be some 5150/engl knock off. It just has to feel and sound nice. Check book is out dry to go

[aliensporebomb]

I'd think the real proof in the puddling is playing it yourself to see how it reacts and responds. I've tried just about every emulator out there and you KNOW when you're playing a tube amp because of the way it feels. I haven't had the time to mess with an 11 in person yet but if it does the "responds like a tube amp thing" with the same touch sensitivity and feel then it sounds like a winner.

[Parker Fly]

ContraStudio--I would recommend that you go to the AVID site and check out the Eleven Rack User Group (All Things Guitar) and check out the thread "Tunes and Tones". Though I am not a metal guy I do know that many of the users are and there should be some good examples posted by users. There are also some good links to YouTube as well...I will tell you that I was a Flextone III user and that none of the Line 6 modeling can touch the feel of this device. The Pro Tools LE is a major factior as well...

[Longshoes22]

I have a Digi003 Factory....is there too much duplication adding the Eleven Rack to my studio? I am not completely happy with my POD XT Live and want something usable live and in the studio. Also...the Eleven Rack doesn't appear to have Firewire...is that an issue using it with a 003?

[Anderton]

Originally Posted by Longshoes22

I have a Digi003 Factory....is there too much duplication adding the Eleven Rack to my studio?

Actually the combination makes sense. The Eleven Rack has specialized I/O while the 003 is more general-purpose. If you wanted to, for example, record a band, you'd use the 003 for drums, vocals, etc., then feed the Eleven Rack S/PDIF into the 003 for a digital transfer of the guitar sounds into Pro Tools.

Also...the Eleven Rack doesn't appear to have Firewire...is that an issue using it with a 003?

No. Eleven Rack talks to the computer, not the 003 (except as an audio source, as described above).

[Anderton]

Originally Posted by ContraStudio

The one huge issue I find with almost all of these gtr emulators is it doesn't feel close to the real deal were i want to go out and drop 900$ for 11R. Where I can go and save up for a API lunch box with 512c/560 or a SSL w/e and learn how to record great sounding gtr tracks. What I'm trying to say is I really want to be sold to the 11R vs some other studio gear but I'm just not seeing it yet.

Well, there's no harm in wanting to go the lunch box route and using other effects - different strokes for different folks, and all that. As to feel, that's a common complaint with amp sims. Personally, I think the sound part is pretty well nailed down with modern sims - on playback, few people can tell if a properly programmed amp sim sound is a real amp or not. What you don't get is speakers moving air, which is part of the feel, but there's no reason you can't drive a cab to get that "vibe" while feeding the sim signal into Pro Tools.

However, another factor is the True-Z input. This doesn't cover all the feel aspects of using a guitar amp, but it's a very important one - the interaction between pickups and inputs is not to be underestimated. Unfortunately, this is something you have to try for yourself in person; there's no way that uploading an MP3 example here is going to let your fingers know what's going on

Another aspect of feel with a real amp is that a physical amp is a signal processor, with natural EQ, distortion, and compression. One "secret sauce" way I've found to get more of an amp feel with amp sims is to use EQ to boost the mids and upper mids a bit prior to going into compression and then distortion. These are the frequencies that respond to leads, and by boosting the EQ prior to the processing, these frequencies go into compression and distortion sooner than lower notes. Guitar amps tend to work this way, so the overall effect is a more responsive feel to particular notes. Try it with standard effects, even if you don't have an Eleven Rack, and you'll see what I mean.

[Anderton]

First of all, welcome to all you Avid users who found this thread thanks to a mention in the Avid newsletter (and thanks to the Avidians for the link). The interactive nature of Pro Reviews is what make them fun, so your opinions, feedback, and questions are an important part of the process. And as we have the attention of ER's product manager, you'll definitely get answers to your questions if I don't know the answers! Hiro is going a great job in providing more details and background about the unit.

As to scheduling, the end is in sight for my editing of NAMM videos for Harmony Central, and when they're done, I'll be able to continue this review in a more in-depth way. Meanwhile, if you want to check out the NAMM videos - there's some pretty cool stuff in there! - you can find the playlist here.

[ContraStudio]

Hey Thanks Anderton for the reply. I understand I wont be sold until I really get to sit and play with 11R. Just as upcoming Gtr tech/recording dude I want to really be sharp on my skills when it comes to recording Gtr Tracks. I'm scared that in this day in age with drums not really having to be recorded cause some mad scientist that knows how to work BFD/EZ drum/Drumagog. Never really needing to record drum tracks cause its cheaper and easier to work those VSTs. I would hate to see Gtr go that path. Don't get me wrong I like things simple, but if recording gtr gets to the point where all it takes is to push the easy button then we lose in the art recording. But on the flip side I found some cheap prices on 11R for 700$ now is a great time to buy one..