american idol

[wades_keys]

^

Holy crap.

 

Yeah, Hudson can SING - I always knew that.

 

But holy CRAP.

[kmart]

John Lennon? Okay, it really is subjective.

 

 

If you're saying Jennifer Hudson IS a great singer and at the same time John Lennon isn't, yeah, it really is.

[kmart]

 

 

Apparently you linked to a YouTube video which I can't view now, but I'm guessing you think you're showing me an example of a Kelly Clarkson performance that's GREAT.

 

I've seen enough to have a good idea that it's not as great as maybe you think it is. Then again, I sense that people who activelty follow AI in general have a completely different idea of what 'great' is than I.

 

She's got an ok voice, period, and the proof that her voice is not so amazing is in how it is presented in her recordings.

[dparr]

If you're saying Jennifer Hudson IS a great singer and at the same time John Lennon isn't , yeah, it really is.

 

 

Yes, John Lennon was one of the greatest rock singers EVER.

 

What I liked about him is that he didn't "oversing". I can't say that about Jennifer Hudson.

 

Just sing the damn song well and leave the ego at home.

[Dancebass]

^ Holy crap. Yeah, Hudson can SING - I always knew that. But holy CRAP.

 

 

What?? You think that's impressive??? You should see my little league trophies dude!

[troyguitar]

^ Holy crap. Yeah, Hudson can SING - I always knew that. But holy CRAP.

 

Most of those are for acting

[JoeDirt]

If you're saying Jennifer Hudson IS a great singer and at the same time John Lennon isn't , yeah, it really is.

[pickinatit]

Not really. He was given a paycheck from the Government and spent his days studying and performing. This took place on a salary that was provided by the Government and paid for by the citizens. When I was in high school and college, the military was actively recruiting musicians. Heck the Air Force jazz band played at my school 3 years in a row. The only reason they were there was to recruit new members and they spoke of the rank and pay that the musicians are awarded once they "make the band". That sounds like government supported to me.

 

 

Technically I suppose you are correct, but looking at it from the standpoint that the Navy is somehow recruiting musicians out of some altruistic desire to support the arts is absurd on it's face. Their motive has very little to nothing to do with that. It's a selfish desire on their part to have good groups to perform at their functions or they wouldn't give a %$#@ about a musician. It's like saying that your local bar or tavern hires your band because they have a calling to perpetuate (insert genre here) music.

[pickinatit]

 

 

His voice is a terrific instrument...just great. But I wouldn't pay to listen to him sing based on what I heard last night. I know he needed to show off for the judges last night, but he vastly overdid the vocal gymnastics to the point of absurdity. Sort of the same way I feel about Maria Carey. As far as I'm concerned he butchered a great song. It was barely recognizable. I might be singing (ha ha) a different tune in a couple of weeks but I'm going to have to hear him come way, way down to earth on a couple of songs to consider him for the winner.

[ChordGirl]

What?? You think that's impressive??? You should see my little league trophies dude!

Like!

[PrinceOfTheLoud]

i agree with everything u said kmart.

furthermore, in another 5 years, no one is going to know who the hell jennie hudson is, except for the devout dreamgirl fanbois.

American Idol is not about the music, it's about the entertainment.

there's a distinct line between musicianship and entertainment, which most members here don't differentiate, even though they should.

[pickinatit]

Well, there's the difference of opinions, then. Kelly Clarkson isn't that good of a singer, IMO. She's good, and has the pop machine behind her to make her a big deal, but no great shakes of a voice to me. Without American Idol supporting her, she'd likely have no music career. Carrie Underwood, somewhat better singer, same story though; if both weren't better than average PERFORMERS (different than singer), you'd never have heard of them. I'll give that Jennifer Hudson can sing, and has a good voice on its own, but still, I don't think of her as a truly great singer. Check back with me in 5-10 years and we can look at what she's done. As for the comment that the AI champs/finalists are better than 90% of the cover band singers out there...well if that's the bar by which one measures greatness, no wonder AI is so popular...and why culture in America is doomed. Here's a list of 10 GREAT singers off the top of my head, IMO: Marvin Gaye Otis Redding Mavis Staples Al Greene Billie Holiday Sam Cooke Ray Charles Smokey Robinson John Lennon Roy Orbison Take away what they brought to the table as PERFORMERS, and you still have GREAT voices. Hell, for more contemporary stuff, Neko Case has a great/better singing voice than just about anybody on AI as far as I'm concerned, and her freaking backing singers do too (Kelly Hogan & Nora O'Connor, not that many of you would have heard of them). Nothing on AI is in the same universe as these singers. Next someone is going to try and convince me that the Jonas Brothers are a 'great' band...

You would list John Lennon and Roy Orbison (please!!!) Roy Orbison wouldn't make it to Hollywood on AI.
Listen close...he's pretty pitchy on quite a few of his recordings. And not a mention of the likes of Leanne Rimes, Maria Carey, Celine Dion, Barbara Streisand (although her time has passed). We have VERY different ideas of what a great singer is.

[kmart]

You would list John Lennon and Roy Orbison (please!!!) Roy Orbison wouldn't make it to Hollywood on AI. Listen close...he's pretty pitchy on quite a few of his recordings. And not a mention of the likes of Leanne Rimes, Maria Carey, Celine Dion, Barbara Streisand (although her time has passed). We have VERY different ideas of what a great singer is.

 

 

Yes, we clearly do...especially if you think that it's some sort of (1) statement about how great a singer one is or (2) major accomplishment/BFD to 'make it Hollywood' on an overblown popularity (not the same as talent) contest like AI.

 

To me, that's an incredibly LOW bar (and fits right in with all of what AI is about) to judge by in the first place. The bar I hold a GREAT singer to is: have they sung something that resonated, that impacted me/people in general and spoke to us 'beyond just the music', so to speak...can they use the medium of song/voice to communicate wider, deeper, broader than just words words being sung?

 

You can talk pitchy all you want, but nobody on AI has, nor will they likely ever, come close to what John Lennon or Roy Orbison on their worst performance, were capable of getting across emotionally.

 

I'd rather listen to either sing Old MacDonald than anybody who's been on American Idol.

[SeniorBlues]

This is all so subjective. . . . No one's mentioned Ella Fitzgerald!?!?!?

My wife and I saw Dianne Reeves at the Strathmore on Valentine's Day. Absolutely delightful . . . All sorts of Grammys, but some of you have never heard of her.

The rendition of God Bless the Child is based on a certain style. Embellishment is expected. Listen to Stevie Wonder.

I also like Dr. John . . . OK, now I'm just being provocative, although his musicality comes out in his vocal lines and phrasing.


How about Tony Bennett, or (you'll love this one) Andy Williams.

[ChordGirl]

i agree with everything u said kmart. furthermore, in another 5 years, no one is going to know who the hell jennie hudson is, except for the devout dreamgirl fanbois. American Idol is not about the music, it's about the entertainment. there's a distinct line between musicianship and entertainment, which most members here don't differentiate, even though they should.

 

 

With all due respect, very little in the music industry is about musicianship anymore.

 

 

Ask this guy:

 

[video=hulu;l5B4kvGQ94jw-iLOJ3p4mw]

[kmart]

 

 

Exactly.

 

And exactly why the word GREAT applied to AI singers is so...questionable, IMO.

 

Does the show produce great PERFORMERS? Well, at least a 2-3 so far...but it's also discovered a number of straight-up DUDS too...

 

Great SINGERS though?

No. And that's not what they're trying to do, either.

[Rob_Rocks]

Well, there's the difference of opinions, then. Kelly Clarkson isn't that good of a singer, IMO. She's good, and has the pop machine behind her to make her a big deal, but no great shakes of a voice to me. Without American Idol supporting her, she'd likely have no music career. Carrie Underwood, somewhat better singer, same story though; if both weren't better than average PERFORMERS (different than singer), you'd never have heard of them. I'll give that Jennifer Hudson can sing, and has a good voice on its own, but still, I don't think of her as a truly great singer. Check back with me in 5-10 years and we can look at what she's done. As for the comment that the AI champs/finalists are better than 90% of the cover band singers out there...well if that's the bar by which one measures greatness, no wonder AI is so popular...and why culture in America is doomed. Here's a list of 10 GREAT singers off the top of my head, IMO: Marvin Gaye Otis Redding Mavis Staples Al Greene Billie Holiday Sam Cooke Ray Charles Smokey Robinson John Lennon Roy Orbison Take away what they brought to the table as PERFORMERS, and you still have GREAT voices. Hell, for more contemporary stuff, Neko Case has a great/better singing voice than just about anybody on AI as far as I'm concerned, and her freaking backing singers do too (Kelly Hogan & Nora O'Connor, not that many of you would have heard of them). Nothing on AI is in the same universe as these singers. Next someone is going to try and convince me that the Jonas Brothers are a 'great' band...

I think 99% of the singers on AI are pretty piss-poor as well, but what constitutes a "great singer" is highly subjective. IMHO Clarkson, Underwood, Hudson, Daughtry and Lambert are all "great" singers. It would be hard to beat A. Lambert in pure technical ability. But what resonates with one person may not with another. Although I admire each of the singers on your list, I would not personally place any of them on my list of "10 best singers". In fact, you wouldn’t find any of them on my top 100. But that's because my tastes in music (and singers) is obviously different than yours. Not better, just different.


By the way - I don't think AI's goal is to find the "greatest singer". They are looking for the "American Idol". Not really the same thing.

[badhabit]

Well, there's the difference of opinions, then. Kelly Clarkson isn't that good of a singer, IMO. She's good, and has the pop machine behind her to make her a big deal, but no great shakes of a voice to me. Without American Idol supporting her, she'd likely have no music career. Carrie Underwood, somewhat better singer, same story though; if both weren't better than average PERFORMERS (different than singer), you'd never have heard of them. I'll give that Jennifer Hudson can sing, and has a good voice on its own, but still, I don't think of her as a truly great singer. Check back with me in 5-10 years and we can look at what she's done. As for the comment that the AI champs/finalists are better than 90% of the cover band singers out there...well if that's the bar by which one measures greatness, no wonder AI is so popular...and why culture in America is doomed. Here's a list of 10 GREAT singers off the top of my head, IMO: Marvin Gaye Otis Redding Mavis Staples Al Greene Billie Holiday Sam Cooke Ray Charles Smokey Robinson John Lennon Roy Orbison Take away what they brought to the table as PERFORMERS, and you still have GREAT voices. Hell, for more contemporary stuff, Neko Case has a great/better singing voice than just about anybody on AI as far as I'm concerned, and her freaking backing singers do too (Kelly Hogan & Nora O'Connor, not that many of you would have heard of them). Nothing on AI is in the same universe as these singers. Next someone is going to try and convince me that the Jonas Brothers are a 'great' band...

With the exception of Orbison and Lennon, your list is all soul and R&B singers. What about classical, pop, jazz, country, folk and the other categories.

Even Stevie Wonder should be on your list. But mine would also include:

Frank Sinatra
Nat Cole
Ella Fitzgerald
Natalie Cole
Barbara Streisand
Julie Andrews
Luciano Pavarotti
Maria Callas
Tony Bennett
Alison Krauss
Joan Baez
Judy Collins
George Jones

There are lots of others as well. Only time will tell if AI produces any singers of the same caliber as these. I agree there have been some very good vocalists on AI, not sure if any will ever be of the caliber of the ones on my list.

[kmart]

 

By the way - I don't think AI's goal is to find the "greatest singer". They are looking for the "American Idol". Not really the same thing.

 

 

Never said it was the same, nor that it was their goal to discover them.

[kmart]

 

With the exception of Orbison and Lennon, your list is all soul and R&B singers. What about classical, pop, jazz, country, folk and the other categories.

 

 

Re-read my post: I did not say they were what I consider the 10 greatest of all time, nor that they were the only 10 I consider great. I said they were 10 great singers off the top of my head.

 

Point being they are all great and if one chooses to compare what's come through the AI meat-grinder to any of the 10 I listed, we'll have to end the discussion there, because I'll be too busy laughing.

[BlueStrat]

Re-read my post: I did not say they were what I consider the 10 greatest of all time, nor that they were the only 10 I consider great. I said they were 10 great singers off the top of my head. Point being they are all great and if one chooses to compare what's come through the AI meat-grinder to any of the 10 I listed, we'll have to end the discussion there, because I'll be too busy laughing.

It ended for me when you said John Lennon was a great singer.

[wades_keys]

This is all so subjective. . . . No one's mentioned Ella Fitzgerald!?!?!?

 

Oh man, absolutely. I've got a stellar version of her doing "how high the moon"

[Vito Corleone]

It seems like every season there is a thread bagging on the show, but I love it. I love when some great singer, emerges from nowhere even though they didn't even realize they were great, or finally gets a break after years of paying dues. Last night the upright bass playing dude blew me away. I loved when he asked Randy if he wanted to play his bass, and Randy said no. I know Randy is a great bass player, but I'm not sure he wanted to follow that cat on the upright. Plenty of talent in this year's cast.

 

 

I love American Idol too. Always inspiring to hear good singing and the bad stuff is always entertaining too. Half the fun on shows like this is everybody getting all upset when some supposedly better singer gets voted off. At the end of the day, it's just a TV show and it's a pretty entertaining one. And one of the few things on TV that entire families can watch together.

[Vito Corleone]

I beg to differ. Great, of course, is subjective, but I think anyone would be hard pressed to find a singer better than Jennifer Hudson.

 

 

Agreed. I thought she was the best of this group at the Grammys the other night as well.

 

She doesn't even look like she's working to sing that song:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4guGIzxhgBA

 

I also like that she had the good taste to not partake in the big riff-fest at the end of the song that the other 4 indulged in.

 

And she's looking damn good these days as well.

[Vito Corleone]

 

 

The biggest thing I get from that is "the more things change the more they stay the same".

 

The technology is different, but the idea of the impresario/producer finding the right "voice" to sell his creations is timeless. Berry Gordy perfected that routine during the Motown era.