One good argument FOR tabs

[corporealJigsor]

Is that because of their failings (lack of rhythmn, inaccuracy) they force you to actually LISTEN to the music when learning it. In some ways this might actually be a better start:thu:

[captain average]

touche' sir. touche'

[gennation]

I don't know how many times I saw JUST tab, without knowing the song, and then becoming inspired by where I heard it going.

 

I've wrote many songs that have the same notes as something else but have a COMPLETELY different feel and song within them.

 

Although, these days it's REALLY hard to find any tab that doesn't have standard notation. Too bad some of the popular mags don't do a "learn how to read notation" lesson series as opposed to a "learn how to read tab" blur.

 

Personally, I use tab for writing out ideas, not so much for learning songs. What I do is write out the tab in measures and then add the rhythm notation below the tab, not the note notation, JUST the rhythms...

 

this shows me where I played and how I played...IOW, this method shows me EXACTLY what I played.

[Big Muff]

Is that because of their failings (lack of rhythmn, inaccuracy) they force you to actually LISTEN to the music when learning it. In some ways this might actually be a better start:thu:

I take it you've never heard of power tab? In power tab the rhythm is automatically written above the tab. Most of them are pretty accurate as well.

[Virgman]

Tab is just another helpful way to learn music.

[corporealJigsor]

I take it you've never heard of power tab? In power tab the rhythm is automatically written above the tab. Most of them are pretty accurate as well.

i was just talking about conventional tab. Most metal i can find more accurately off pt/gp for some reason?

[corporealJigsor]

Tab is just another helpful way to learn music.

 

 

I know, some people just seem to discount it completely.

[Li10]

what tab is great for is for writing down your own music. If you remember what it sounds like but can't remember how to play it then you're screwed a little bit... unless you wrote it down!!

[Terje]

Is that because of their failings (lack of rhythmn, inaccuracy) they force you to actually LISTEN to the music when learning it. In some ways this might actually be a better start:thu:

This is a very weak argument indeed. Basically you're saying that it's good because it's so bad you can't really use it

Tab is good for showing you how although that can be very bad since, like with learning music by listening, it is often better to figure out the how on your own.

Standard notation shows you what to play and how it works in its musical context. With that info I can figure out the how on my own.

But sure, sometimes someone is doing something in a specail way and it's interesting to find out how. That's when I like tab. Also, if you use {censored}loads of different tunings it can be very helpful.

It can also be a way into reading music becasue it's so easy people who are afraid of reading music at all might get over their fears via tab.

[corporealJigsor]

This is a very weak argument indeed. Basically you're saying that it's good because it's so bad you can't really use it Tab is good for showing you how although that can be very bad since, like with learning music by listening, it is often better to figure out the how on your own. Standard notation shows you what to play and how it works in its musical context. With that info I can figure out the how on my own. But sure, sometimes someone is doing something in a specail way and it's interesting to find out how. That's when I like tab. Also, if you use {censored}loads of different tunings it can be very helpful. It can also be a way into reading music becasue it's so easy people who are afraid of reading music at all might get over their fears via tab.

You're arguing basically the same thing:wave:

That by its limitations (no fingering) S.N forces you to do it yourself.

When first learning music theres no point in trying to learn it without listening first.

[jonfinn]

One of the reasons I don't engage in these arguments is because I'm coming from the extreme opposite end. I learned to read standard notation long before I learned to read tab. In fact, I still find tab harder to read!

Every argument I've heard for tab could also be made for reading standard notation.

I really don't believe there is a "best" way to do anything. Although I do think tab really only useful for guitarists.

Other musicians who read music use standard notation. So if you want to communicate only with other guitarists, use tab. If you want to communicate with other musicians, use standard notation.

[Auggie Doggie]

Every argument I've heard for tab could also be made for reading standard notation.

(I'm only posting this because I like being a pain in the ass , and because my degree is in math, I spent way too many hours doing proofs and searching for counterexamples that I just can't help myself any more)

Argument for tab that does not apply to standard notation: "Tablature shows you exactly where and how to play a piece of music on the guitar that is in X-tuning (where X is any tuning imaginable)."

The above statement does NOT apply to standard notation.





Disclaimer: I am certainly a proponent of learning how to read standard notation; I am NOT trying to give anyone an excuse not to do so.

[Mark Wein]

One of the reasons I don't engage in these arguments is because I'm coming from the extreme opposite end. I learned to read standard notation long before I learned to read tab. In fact, I still find tab harder to read!

 

Want to hear some thing somewhat irrelevant and totally messed up? About a year ago a guitar student of mine asked for help on the piano...she wanted to learn a Journey song (Don't Stop Believing) and only had a guitar tab version off the internet for me to read...so I had to read the guitar tab and play it on the piano (not my best instrument in the first place)....

 

At least it was a song I had already heard 11 billion times.

 

A horrible and mind bending half hour....

[jonfinn]

(I'm only posting this because I like being a pain in the ass , and because my degree is in math, I spent way too many hours doing proofs and searching for counterexamples that I just can't help myself any more) Argument for tab that does not apply to standard notation: "Tablature shows you exactly where and how to play a piece of music on the guitar that is in X-tuning (where X is any tuning imaginable)." The above statement does NOT apply to standard notation. Disclaimer: I am certainly a proponent of learning how to read standard notation; I am NOT trying to give anyone an excuse not to do so.

Well, tab makes that process much easier. In standard notation, there are ways to indicate the tuning as well, but it's obviously not as clear.

You're right in what you're saying. I'm raising the point not to argue, but rather to offer another point of view. Since standard notation gives the pitches, rhythms, articulations, tempos dynamics etc., and lots of detail about the musical content, it encourages the player to think carefully about how to play it. If you explore many ways to do something, then arrive at the "best for you" way of doing it, you REALLY know that piece. You'll play it like you own it (but of course, that process takes much longer...).

For me, it's really not so important HOW you get the information. At the end of the day, the only thing that really matters is what it sounds like.

[corporealJigsor]

Well, tab makes that process much easier. In standard notation, there are ways to indicate the tuning as well, but it's obviously not as clear. You're right in what you're saying. I'm raising the point not to argue, but rather to offer another point of view. Since standard notation gives the pitches, rhythms, articulations, tempos dynamics etc., and lots of detail about the musical content, it encourages the player to think carefully about how to play it. If you explore many ways to do something, then arrive at the "best for you" way of doing it, you REALLY know that piece. You'll play it like you own it (but of course, that process takes much longer...). For me, it's really not so important HOW you get the information. At the end of the day, the only thing that really matters is what it sounds like.

 

 

See, thats sort of my point. Standard notation gives you all that, whereas tab makes you listen for it.

I think learning it from actual music is better in the long run, you learn how rhythmn and dynamics go together in a given style far better.

 

It depends on what styles you want to play a lot too; if i wanted to play mainly jazz standard notation would be great, for metal theres little point.

[Li Shenron]

What if I just learn songs by ears? Do both tab-lovers and tab-haters hate me?

[6mmSid]

No, we envy and respect you .

 

What if I just learn songs by ears? Do both tab-lovers and tab-haters hate me?

[corporealJigsor]

No, we envy and respect you .

Exactly:thu:
Thats what im trying to learn now.

Would never have got anywhere with guitar if id started out (entirely) like that though.

[rhat]

Tab is a good way for a guitar student who gets shown a new lick to , go back and remember the thing so they can commit it to memory and perfect it and get it in their bag of tricks. rat

[Jawbreakerr]

tab is fine.. in the long run.. if you wanna be a more complete musician.. reading music is where you want to go.

[corporealJigsor]

tab is fine.. in the long run.. if you wanna be a more complete musician.. reading music is where you want to go.

 

 

Depends what you want to do.

[Jasco]

tab is fine.. in the long run.. if you wanna be a more complete musician.. reading music is where you want to go.

 

 

Why would you say that?

 

Many paths lead to the same goal.

 

Personally I prefer the listening method over various visual access methods, since music is an aural art form. But each of the visual access methods (tabs, standard notation, chord charts, fretboard diagrams) has it's strengths and weaknesses.

[jonfinn]

Why would you say that? Many paths lead to the same goal. Personally I prefer the listening method over various visual access methods, since music is an aural art form. But each of the visual access methods (tabs, standard notation, chord charts, fretboard diagrams) has it's strengths and weaknesses.

 

 

Well, yeah. I think the idea of reading standard notation vs. tab vs. ears is a largely misunderstood one. I never discount the abilities of any musician who can't read. Tho, if their ears are weak that's another story.

 

Many guitarists come up learning by ear (me included). I came up through my beginner stage long before tab was commonplace. So tabs don't mean as much to me as other players.

 

I will say though that tabs are useless for conveying music to non-guitarists.

Of course, there are many ways to teach tunes to others. But from what I've seen, the fastest, most efficient way is to use standard notation (provided the players you work with are fluent readers). If they are, you'd never guess they're reading! If they aren't it'll come across as stiff.

 

I've done hundreds (maybe thousands) of gigs where I've been hired to show up on the gig and read. Not once have i ever seen tab.

 

To read well means using all of your musical facilities simultaneously. To read well, you look at the page, make judgements, interpret, listen, follow, assert..... many things at once. It's really not just "follow the dots" like many people seem to think.

 

If everything else is equal, and one player can read while the other can't, guess which one will work more?

[jeremy_green]

I hope this doesnt read as offensive to anyone. Not meaning to rip anybody here and typing can sound harsh accidentally. It is hard to convey this thought without stepping on toes so here goes : )

 

From my own personal experience most guitarists I have met who prefer tab are defensive about the fact that they never took the time it takes to learn to read. Most will vehemently defend Tabs based on this insecurity, and think opinions like this are the ramblings of a non "feel player" or some reading snob. For many years I was a non-reader and avoided "eating my vegetables" so to speak - I was one of these guys. So I plugged away with my Tabs and ears learning riffs and bits and it got me pretty far.

 

When I finally took the time to learn to read in all positions it gave me a far deeper understanding of the neck and embedded the locations of all the notes in my mind in a practical usable form. For all my studying pre-reading days the note locations always eluded me on the fly. To me I became a better player all around from my experience of learning to read notation. Instead of memorizing shapes to get new scales and chords I could just alter already learned shapes accordingly. SO maybe it was the process of the learning that makes it so valuable as much as the tool itself.

 

From this experience, In my opinion if you want to be a better MUSICIAN learn to read. If you just want to play guitar (mostly by yourself or with some buds) Tabs are awesome.

 

Again not trying to be a goof just these are my experiences correct or otherwise.

[Jasco]

Well, yeah. I think the idea of reading standard notation vs. tab vs. ears is a largely misunderstood one.

 

 

Could you expand on your ideas about this a little more? Thanks.

 

 

 

 

If everything else is equal, and one player can read while the other can't, guess which one will work more?

 

 

Depends on the type of gig. Often times it is the guitar who knows how to promote better that works more, playing skills be damned, as sad as that may be.

 

And I'm not disagreeing with you here, by the way. Just making a semi-true joke.