To build or Not To build a Leslie (rig re-design dilemma)

[petejt]

I'm stuck.

 

 

REALLY STUCK.

 

 

I've had this thread here for the last few days and it has received NO attention!

 

I really need some help here, so PLEASE decently help me out, I ask you all.

 

 

 

Currently I have a Wet/Dry rig, which I am about to embark on turning into a Wet/Dry/Wet rig, well, when I can get hold of a nice ol' Marshall JMP or JCM800.

 

Okay, so when that Marshall comes (which I can wait for), that'll be slap bang up in the middle, for the Dry bit. Apart from a clean boost, it will be dry of any effects.

 

On each side of that Marshall, will be my other two valve amps. The MarkIV on one side, going through my Stiletto 4x12 cab. The other side, my Engl Fireball.

 

 

Now, in front of this lot is going to be my chorus pedal, a Visual Sound H2O Liquid Chorus & Echo, for when I get that sudden slow swirly chorus urge .

 

This will split the signal, one dry to the Marshall, one wet (chorused). That wet signal will go to either a gigFX Chopper or ProChop (still deciding which), which has stereo outputs (only one input).

After that is my stereo delay pedal, and then into the amps (ElectroHarmonix POG will be just before the Fireball).

 

Now, a big reason of getting the gigFX is its ability to do slow Leslie rotating speaker sounds. It'll be even better with a chorus pedal in front of it. And a delay pedal in front of it that can do more panning & modulated delay.

 

That and also that my MarkIV will have a dedicated rackmounted tri-stereo chorus unit in its effects loop, and the Fireball will have a G-major in its fx loop, set for micropitchshifting when I want it. Plus there is a POG in front of the Fireball.

 

Since this is going through two speaker cabs, in effect it's going to be a gigantic swirly thing going on anyway.

 

 

 

Now, the cab for my Fireball is in pieces. I disassembled it to build my own slow-rotating Leslie speaker cabinet. Well, so far all of the speakers are pulled out.

 

 

I am thinking.....

would it be worth building a dedicated swirly rotating Leslie cabinet?

Would its effect be noticeable amongst all of the other chorusing methods going on?

Would it significantly contribute to the overall slight phasey slow swirly chorusing?

 

 

 

Or am I better off just putting some Greenbacks into that empty cab and use it with the Marshall, and buy another 'normal' 4x12 cab for the Fireball?

 

 

 

 

All this stuff is makin' me 'ead spin.........

[RoboPimp]

don't gig much eh?

[petejt]

don't gig much eh?

I can't at the moment, as everything is in storage.


But I managed to snag a pretty cool place right near the beach! Big damn place too! I'll move in after I come back from work (I leave tomorrow).

So I'll be back to jammin' again soon

[petejt]

someone please help me

[kishjor]

HHMMM.... Theres people who build leslie cabnits now, just buy one of those and you'll end up with possibly a better product for cheaper if you're not that up to the daunting task of building your own.

[petejt]

HHMMM.... Theres people who build leslie cabnits now, just buy one of those and you'll end up with possibly a better product for cheaper if you're not that up to the daunting task of building your own.

 

 

But that doesn't solve the fact I need a speaker cab for my Fireball. Or the whole w/d/w thing.

 

 

Unless, put some speakers into the empty cab, use that with the Marshall, get another cab for the Fireball, and run the Fireball with two outputs with one going to a proper Leslie cab?

 

 

 

Honestly I don't really mind building my own version of a Leslie. It's just using a Marshall guitar cab and only will have treble rotors, no bass rotor.

[petejt]

bumpity bump

[petejt]

PLEASE, help me

[petejt]

Why can't someone please help me?

[petejt]

why? oh why won't anyone help me out!?

[Zachman]

All this stuff is makin' me 'ead spin.........

 

In my opinion I think the leslie will sound like the best chorus EVER, but the Hughes and Ketner Rotosphere does a FANTASTIC job at leslie simulation for guitar, and I would do that instead, and put green backs or H30's in the cab

 

WHERE did you get a tri-stereo chorus and how much??? Fulltone's been talking about re-releasing them, but haven't yet, and have been talking about if for a long long time already. (Getting doubtful that they will, and if they do, am skeptical as to it's authenticity, but I digress)

 

Is there a reason why you wouldn't want to have all of your effects available with which ever head you choose, instead of basically running 3 separate rigs? (Not trying to bust your chops, just curious).

 

FYI devices like stereo choruses have the wet signal passing 100% wet through one side's output and a dry (unaffected signal) passing through the other.

 

I used to run a system very similar to what you are thinking, though it was stereo as opposed to W/D, or W/D/W, and used only Mesa MKIII amps, no amp switching in that setup.

 

Ooh, you got the bug, I recognize the symptoms... Sorry about that . When you are in the final phases I am sure I'll be getting a call from you, telling me how much better your rig sounds than the way you used to run it, and us laughing at the conversations that were had regarding the multi-amp switching rig that I built, and all the naysayers that had no clue as to the depth of their ignorance.

[Urinate Forever]

There's a huge leslie cabinet at the local guitar store. I have no idea what the {censored} it is. It says Leslie on it and it looks like this kind of:

 

Want me to find out how much it is?

[The Riffer]

A "leslie" with out a rotating speaker, just a rotating horn will not sound authentic. Why bother.

 

 

Running a spinning horn with two other rigs will definitely have a diminished return. Why bother.

 

 

Get a rotosphere or boss rotary simulator. Upgrade you rigs speakers.Problem solved, no?

[petejt]

There's a huge leslie cabinet at the local guitar store. I have no idea what the {censored} it is. It says Leslie on it and it looks like this kind of: Want me to find out how much it is?

Sure.


Although that thing looks rather big. The reason why I wanted to make me own Leslie was so I could use my Marshall cab, with dedicated chorale.

[petejt]

Get a rotosphere or boss rotary simulator. Upgrade you rigs speakers.Problem solved, no?

I'll look into that, thanks for your advice .

[english_bob]

I'd go for a leslie simulator. You can get pretty convincing leslie sounds from compact pedals these days, while the real thing is enormous, heavy and just one more thing to lug around if you gig.

Dave Gilmour runs rotary speakers during all his songs with Pink Floyd, blended with his regular amps, so potentially it's worth it from a sonic perspective, but then of course he is also a multi-millionaire with plenty of roadies to fetch and carry for him.

BTW, I really can't see a standard 4x12" being suitable for use as a rotating speaker.

[Vince]

If I were you, and you were intent on having a big swirly sound and not worried about the size of kit, I'd probably get a leslie cab and dedicated amp.
Then you can have your marshall doing the dry sound, your MKIV for the effected stuff, and the leslie to be switched in and out as and when you want.
Actually, just use the Engl for the dry sound, and the marshall to run the leslie. That would be the tits!

You're going to want a beast of a switcher though!

[petejt]

Ooh, you got the bug, I recognize the symptoms... Sorry about that .

hehehe yup




I'll tell ya, I've gone through a hell of a lot of deciding what sort of amps & rigs I wanted to get. From running POD xt Live into Mesa/Boogie poweramps, getting a Matamp, a Marshall DSL combo, a Stiletto & Laney GH50L then thought of the TT50H, a Vox AC-30 and some pedals, a full-on rackmounted rig, building my own Mesa/Boogie MarkIIC+ , slaving a IIC+ into a JCM800, a Marshall JMP 1974x, a Hughes & Kettner Switchblade, even a Rect-O-Verb, geez the list goes on and on! And that's just the amps!

[petejt]

If I were you, and you were intent on having a big swirly sound and not worried about the size of kit, I'd probably get a leslie cab and dedicated amp. Then you can have your marshall doing the dry sound, your MKIV for the effected stuff, and the leslie to be switched in and out as and when you want. Actually, just use the Engl for the dry sound, and the marshall to run the leslie. That would be the tits! You're going to want a beast of a switcher though!

 

 

 

Actually, I've been able to figure out how to switch it all with just a DMC Ground Control Pro & GCX Switcher. That'll run the entire w/d/w rig as dreamed. Of course I will need a separate controller to change the speed of the Leslie.

[petejt]

I'd go for a leslie simulator. You can get pretty convincing leslie sounds from compact pedals these days, while the real thing is enormous, heavy and just one more thing to lug around if you gig. Dave Gilmour runs rotary speakers during all his songs with Pink Floyd, blended with his regular amps, so potentially it's worth it from a sonic perspective, but then of course he is also a multi-millionaire with plenty of roadies to fetch and carry for him. BTW, I really can't see a standard 4x12" being suitable for use as a rotating speaker.

I get your point, and appreciate you giving it to me .

I guess that yeah a modded 4x12 cab won't sound the same as a full-on Leslie. In fact it won't for starters, as I won't be building the bass rotor.

But I read about the Motion Sound rotating speakers- that they usually just have a static bass driver, with a rotating treble horn, as it is said that most of the pitch-shifting Doppler effect comes from the treble horn.
I thought of adapting that idea for a 4x12 cab.


Yep, I certainly don't have lotsa roadies fetching and carrying for me. I doubt that I'll ever be a multi-millionare. The closest I've come to that, is working for a billionare.

[Zachman]

So, would Greenbacks or H30s work well with the Engl Fireball? So far all I know is V30s work brilliantly with the Fireball. I'll look into the Rotosphere as per your and SPACECHARGE's advice. Thanks. Nope, haven't got it yet. Just extremely eager to . I hope they hurry up releasing them though... Apart from the JC-120, the only chorus I have is the Visual Sound H2O Liquid Chorus & Echo. Now, that thing sounds lovely. But I want MORE, more! In fact, just last night I was considering on getting the TC Electronic Stereo Chorus Flanger pedal, to use in the effects loop of the JC-120 for extra pitch-shifty modulation . You're right, it is basically three separate rigs. Really, it is a Wet/Dry rig, as the MarkIV will 70% of the time be run dry, and the Fireball will be drenched in effects. The Fireball's tone can be adapted and warped to almost whatever I want, so it is okay to run effects with it most of the time, whereas I want to preserve the core tone of the MarkIV, because it sounds so damn good. The thing is though, I've always loved the Marshall crunchy tone, and the second valve amp I ever played (the first was a Vox AC-30). Also I tried out JCM800 clean-boosted, and it 99.999999999999999999% NAILED a tone that I have desperately been looking for. It has that roar that I just can't get out of the Fireball, even though the Fireball can get almost every single other tone I want. In fact, I could just get a Marshall and sell the Fireball, but yet that amp is dear to me too. So I thought, why not all three of them (plus the JC-120 for cleans) co-exist in harmony? That is why I've decided on building a W/D/W rig, so I get that awesome Marshall roar up the middle, dry of effects except for a clean-boost, and two amps on each side, one heavily effects-laden (probably a multi-effects unit, plus the POG), and the other mostly dry except when I want that tri-stereo chorus. I'd like to have a dedicated rackmounted chorus in the fx loop of the MarkIV. It can be switched in and out whenever I like. And, I reckon it'd be quite nice having a rackmounted dedicated chorus unit, especially if it can do tri-stereo. Oh ok... I guess though that having chorus coming through two speakers at once, would cancel each other out? At the moment, my rig is a stereo setup. The chorus pedal splits the signal, where the dry side goes to the MarkIV, and the wet side goes to the Fireball. Of course, it isn't functional like that right now, as I disassembled the Marshall cab. I'd like to have some pedals out front, such as that chorus pedal, the POG, and the delay pedal, so I've got immediate access to them. I'm happy with how they sound the way they are setup, and they split the signal fine for me. I realise it makes sense to use a proper buffer or looper, but, I dunno it's wierd- I want all these extra bits and different methods, yet at the same time want some limiting factors on my rig. Wierd hey? It's odd, but I like it. About the gigFX- I remembered that Adam Jones from Tool used one, and I'm a big fan of Tool. I looked the Chopper up on the Internet, then wrote a thread about it here. I got some good feedback about it and the ProChop, and was advised to check out some example sound clips, which impressed me quite a bit. I really like that the rate can be changed by the pedal, as well as being capable of other cool effects as well. Another thing too- I like doing things a bit differently, although WON'T resort to riding on a bus with a dog leash around me neck being a slack dole bludger living off Centrelink (now that is just {censored}en DUMB.. ), and I reckon it is a pretty cool idea to build my own Leslie system. Also, as you said, it is the real deal, the best chorus ever, as it mechanically produces a Doppler effect rather than electronically. That is what attracted me to the idea. It's just that, I am pondering if my ingenuity & efforts would be wasted if it is made redundant by everything else in the rig, in the way it is set up via W/D/W? hehehe yup I'll tell ya, I've gone through a hell of a lot of deciding what sort of amps & rigs I wanted to get. From running POD xt Live into Mesa/Boogie poweramps, getting a Matamp, a Marshall DSL combo, a Stiletto & Laney GH50L then thought of the TT50H, a Vox AC-30 and some pedals, a full-on rackmounted rig, building my own Mesa/Boogie MarkIIC+ , slaving a IIC+ into a JCM800, a Marshall JMP 1974x, a Hughes & Kettner Switchblade, even a Rect-O-Verb, geez the list goes on and on! And that's just the amps!

 

I can relate to running things in a non-conventional way, if that even makes sense when discussing W/D/W multi-amp switching rigs. Like that is conventional in the least.

 

With my rig, I switch between 4 heads (one at a time) for the middle dry tone and the pedals in the rack are in series, in front of the amp switcher via the rack switcher, and the rack processors are routed in parallel through the rack switcher and line mixer, fed from the amp switcher's line out which is a parallel (line level signal of the selected amps' load signal) then to the stereo power amp for the wet L/R cabs.

 

So the amps inputs get plugged into the amp switcher, then the amp's speaker outs all plug into the amp switcher, then the middle dry cab plugs into the amp switcher.

 

This way I can use all the effects with which ever amp I select, and have all of the effects, amps and amp channels be stored and recalled via MIDI presets, + be able to have direct access switches for everything in the rack via the foot controller. I believe that at this point, I have achieved the highest level of insanity possible. HIGHLY recommended for tone and flexibility but discouraged for fear of your bank account and the life of your accountant, as he'll likely want to kill himself.

[petejt]

^^So you only use one amplifier at any one time? You don't run amps simultaneously for a mixture of tones?


Man I had to laugh at the last part, that was classic!

[Zachman]

^^So you only use one amplifier at any one time? You don't run amps simultaneously for a mixture of tones? Man I had to laugh at the last part, that was classic!

 

I only use one amp at a time. Usually Fender Super Reverb head for clean, Mojave Peacemaker for that EVH Brown sound etc..., Mesa MKIII Coliseum for High Gain stuff, Fuchs ODS for a fusion Robben Ford type of tone, or a Marshall 6100 for a twist on what the Peacemaker does so well. Depending, I use a few other amps for their core tones Vox AC30, Budda Super Drive, etc... I want to get an Egnater Mod100 head w/ the Vox module, Bassman module, Twin Module, SL2 module and the EG5 module.

 

heheehe the accountant thing is true, as is the bank account thing

[petejt]

I'm stuck again now.


Right now, I am considering on getting a TC Electronic SCF Stereo Chorus/Flanger pedal. My idea is to first plug my guitar into my H2O pedal, lead the wet (chorused & echoed) signal to my Jazz Chorus amp (and later A/B'ed with the Marshall), and lead the dry signal to the SCF.

The SCF is stereo, with both outputs a mix of the dry signal and reverse signal (one has its phase reversed). The left side would go to the MarkIV, and the right side to the Fireball.


Now, if a Leslie-type cabinet (modded 4x12) connected to the Fireball, be made redundant by the SCF?

Would both chorused signals from the SCF cancel each other out, resulting in an essentially 'dry' effect?

[petejt]

I think no matter what, I should still just build the Leslie.