Product Manager for M13 here for questions

[richrenken]

Rich -- will your proposed rack unit come with a foot controller, and will it have KNOBS???? will you have the four slots each with 4 "soft" knobs to control parameters? It would be really cool to have the "pro" rack unit that has a matching foot controller ala the bradshaw system, and also have 5 or 6 effects loops that one can use to add in analog effects pedals. it might be good enough that it would make ME go back to using a rack Seriously -- that kind of system would be REALLY powerful!

 

I am thinking 2U exactly the same UI. Instant access to everything. Same knobs and LCDs but with more I/O on the back. You would use a midi controller with it.

[Bobby D]

I am thinking 2U exactly the same UI. Instant access to everything. Same knobs and LCDs but with more I/O on the back. You would use a midi controller with it.

 

i think you are on the right track

 

especially if one can take their existing presets and scene and port them to the "pro" unit when they upgrade.

 

i could possibly see myself getting rid of my floor pedalboard.....putting the pedals in a rack drawer....and getting busy with writing some presets!

[richrenken]

 

A slightly unrelated question for you...I heard someone on another forum mention that the issues with the Line 6 Echo Park (volume boost, noise) had been fixed in the newer versions and that there's a switch inside to turn off the volume boost? Any truth to that? I did notice that the price increased on the Echo Park from $109 to $159.

 

 

That happened very early on. There is a switch in the dock.

 

We give them the choice.

 

The switch is inside the dock (not the module).

You have to take off the bottom plate

to get to the switch.

[MoreGuitars]

This unit has many pluses. My opinion is you took a big step back-wards not putting a usb in it. The POD'S which uses USB and Line6 Edit/Monkey are outstanding, a real feature. An incredible way of managing the product.

 

I think having to use third party software further adds to the confusion, really not what I would expect with such a tech savvy company

 

I love Line6 products. I own lots of them, but the lack of USB, and the inability on the tonecores to daisy chain power (requiring a dedicated wall-wart or a expensive pedal power supply) were major design blunders, IMO.

[richrenken]

Mr. Rich, STILL any updates on the MIDI CC? Oh, and I have to give you the kudos for actually having the patience to come here and talk to all of us regarding all of the features we wish we could have on the M13 (especially when a lot of these asked-for features sound a li'l astronomical for the price point; yet you seem to be taking each one of them seriously). Never experienced service like this. HIGHLY appreciated!

 

I have been out of the office nursing a sick child. Nothing life threatening, I will check it out as soon as I am near my engineers again.

 

No problem on that at all. Even if what is being asked for is expensive or out of available current technology, the spirit of what is being asked for is always valid. I, as the product manager, at the end of the day, have to make the final decisions based on what is in the best interest of the customer. That means all of you guys. So I can't do everything asked but I can listen to it all and weigh it all and think about new products based on all of that.

[richrenken]

 

This unit has many pluses. My opinion is you took a big step back-wards not putting a usb in it. The POD'S using USB and Line6 Edit/Monkey is outstanding, a real feature. I think having to use third party software further adds to the confusion. I love Line6 products. I own lots of them, but the lack of USB, and the inability on the tonecores to daisy chain power (requiring a dedicated wall-wart or a expensive pedal power supply) were major design blunders, IMO.

 

 

Won't argue with you about the ToneCores power issue. It is understandable because of how they are built.

 

But again, the M13 is not a POD. I took a really big step toward the guy who doesn't use a POD and never will. It doesn't use the monkey. There is no editor because everything is right there for you. The mother lode of guys who buy it will never back up a scene, not care about backing up a scene, and never update the software. (Even 1.02 was 95% sound) So, when deciding on Midi or USB, we went Midi for the guys incorporating it into their rigs. Midi will give the afore mentioned features to the small percentage of guys who want it. It is very easy to use and not that expensive. If it only had USB pros wouldn't be using it. And many of them are.

 

That said, I am hearing you.

[Phil O'Keefe]

With a product that is intended for live use, or combination of live / studio use, I think if you had to pick one or the other, then standard MIDI ports makes the most sense. It makes integrating it with a variety of other gear that is intended for those same purposes much easier.

 

For a studio based product though, I think MIDI over USB makes more sense.

 

Just my two cents.

[Phil O'Keefe]

PS I hope your child gets better soon Rich.

[MoreGuitars]

 

Won't argue with you about the ToneCores power issue. It is understandable because of how they are built. But again, the M13 is not a POD. I took a really big step toward the guy who doesn't use a POD and never will. It doesn't use the monkey. There is no editor because everything is right there for you. The mother lode of guys who buy it will never back up a scene, not care about backing up a scene, and never update the software. (Even 1.02 was 95% sound) So, when deciding on Midi or USB, we went Midi for the guys incorporating it into their rigs. Midi will give the afore mentioned features to the small percentage of guys who want it. It is very easy to use and not that expensive. If it only had USB pros wouldn't be using it. And many of them are. That said, I am hearing you.

I agree it is not a POD, but the ability to bulk load in scenes like I load tones in the POD is great. Using Monkey for firmware upgrades is idiot proof. If you come out with model packs, it will be good to have. My POD upgrades with firmware and additional model packs were ez. Having all my tones backed up on the computer is very reassuring. Maybe a compromise would be to have editor that runs on midi like my Vox tonelab has. Don't know if they ever attempted a firmware upgrade with their software, though. I guess I also have a problem of having to use a third party software to upgrade the unit. Who supports what?

 

I really applaud you for getting out there on all the forums and getting input. Like I said earlier, I am a huge Line6 fan. I don't think any company has married technology and art as well as you guys. I look foreword to seeing this product evolve.

[richrenken]

PS I hope your child gets better soon Rich.

 

Thank you....

[richrenken]

 

I agree it is not a POD, but the ability to bulk load in scenes like I load tones in the POD is great. Using Monkey for firmware upgrades is idiot proof. If you come out with model packs, it will be good to have. My POD upgrades with firmware and additional model packs were ez. Having all my tones backed up on the computer is very reassuring. I really applaud you for getting out there on all the forums and getting input. Like I said earlier, I am a huge Line6 fan. I don't think any company has married technolgy and art as well as you guys. I look foreward to seeing this product evolve.

 

 

Thank you. I have been there for 4 years and I love it. I tell guys that I am Tom Hanks in Big.

 

I totally hear you on the USB issue. It was just a judgment call.

[NetStar]

With a product that is intended for live use, or combination of live / studio use, I think if you had to pick one or the other, then standard MIDI ports makes the most sense. It makes integrating it with a variety of other gear that is intended for those same purposes much easier. For a studio based product though, I think MIDI over USB makes more sense. Just my two cents.

 

I agree.

 

I really wouldn't mind buying a cable for it.

I'd have to buy a USB cable anyway.

 

Plus I could use it for a manner of other things too.

[Supernova9]

I'd just like to chime in with where I'd want to use something like this product you're talking of.

 

I own an X3 Live, and love it. Vast vast improvement on the XT and every other POD before it. The amp models are great, and so are the effects you get with it. But what I'd love is the ability to stack effects. I like to use a quarter note delay into an 8th note triplet delay, which gives this awesome galloping sound, but I can't do that on the X3L very easily. So I went out and bought a DL-4, and am running that in the effects loop of the X3L, problem solved.

 

But what would really do it for me is the cut-down version of the M13, 4 effects on at once, one row of switches, to add the stacking ability to the POD - I could stack some drives by putting the effects loop of the X3L before the amp modelling, or stack some delays but putting it after. If you made that I'd go out, sell the DL4 and buy it in a heartbeat!

 

Really cool to see you connecting with your users like this. I love what you guys do with pretty much all your products, and this just shows even more positives about your organisation

 

Hope your child gets better soon!

[ambient]

Hey Rich,

I'm reading about your idea's for a 'pro' model and i'm drooling.

 

I'm the kind of guy that got really excited when he found out about the TC g-system but won't own it anytime soon because of the price.

 

For me, the things I would be looking for would be things like:

 

ability to send/receive midi cc and program change

multiple fx loops that can be patched anywhere in the chain

ability to power pedals for use in the fx loops

movable fx blocks (ie delay>OD>loop>mod should not be a problem)

2 or more relay switches for amp switching etc.

 

pretty much be as flexible as possible and allow the user to use as little/as much of the m13 features/3rd party gear (pedals etc) as they want.

 

Also parallel fx chains would be bad-ass but not essential.

 

Just my wishlist that's all. I haven't tried a m13 and don't know how much of this stuff it can/can't do.

[richrenken]

 

Hey Rich, I'm reading about your idea's for a 'pro' model and i'm drooling. I'm the kind of guy that got really excited when he found out about the TC g-system but won't own it anytime soon because of the price. For me, the things I would be looking for would be things like: ability to send/receive midi cc and program change multiple fx loops that can be patched anywhere in the chain ability to power pedals for use in the fx loops movable fx blocks (ie delay>OD>loop>mod should not be a problem) 2 or more relay switches for amp switching etc. pretty much be as flexible as possible and allow the user to use as little/as much of the m13 features/3rd party gear (pedals etc) as they want. Also parallel fx chains would be bad-ass but not essential. Just my wishlist that's all. I haven't tried a m13 and don't know how much of this stuff it can/can't do.

 

 

Very good stuff and yes, M13 does some of these things already.

[tonylmiles]

Hey Rich, very good to see such active involvement with end users, it's a practice that certain other vendors should take note of.

 

Ok, firstly, I've only just recently bought an M13 off eBay. It came velcro'ed down in a pedal case and appears to work fine. Problem is the previous owner, for some reason, removed all the screws that holds the two halves of the casing together (presumably to get at the internals quickly without having to rip it off the velcro?). So I need to replace those screws, can you tell me what size they are so I can source them from somewhere?

 

Secondly, I'm a little confused over firmware, despite having done some initial research. Bottom-line, is there any way the M13 firmware can be updated like other Line 6 products? I know USB isn't there so is there any other way?

 

I can't recall the firmware version off-hand but it's probably an early one. The concern being that any fixes issued in later versions would not be available to me without having to splash out for a new unit (and that would be just plain silly).

 

Also, are there any plans to introduce new FX models to the M13? While I agree there's enough to be getting on with, the concern once again that later versions could make mine obsolete.

 

Apart from USB connectity, one other useful feature we could do with is a master volume for the amp driving FX. I fully understand the concept of the M13 and the way it works but an extra facility like an MV would be really useful. I know I could buy an MV pedal to go with it but I'd rather save the space on the board for something else.

 

Just one note from me regarding Line 6. Truly innovative products that simply make music more fun. I own a Variax, KB37, POD XT Live and now an M13. Having played guitar for over 30 years I can honestly say that we've never had it better. Keep up the good work!

[tonylmiles]

What a dork! I've just been on the Line 6 site and found the M13 firmware update details. So that answers some of my questions.

 

But, here is one more: can I use my KB37 as a usb/midi device to perform the update?

 

Thanks, Tony.

[Surrealistic Brillo]

With a product that is intended for live use, or combination of live / studio use, I think if you had to pick one or the other, then standard MIDI ports makes the most sense. It makes integrating it with a variety of other gear that is intended for those same purposes much easier. For a studio based product though, I think MIDI over USB makes more sense. Just my two cents.

 

Why pick one over the other...many products have both these days...like my Eventide Timefactor for one. Now there's an awesome product.

[Surrealistic Brillo]

Honestly, while I can see the appeal of a smaller M-13, I don't know how you can make it smaller and have it be as awesome as it is now. I mean you could reduce the number of footswitches, but that would take away a lot of the functionality of the unit. I mean, to get redundant effects, programable presets, effects with your looper, etc. types it would take multiple DL4's, MM4's, FM4's, DM4's and Verbzillas, a MIDI loop switcher, a tuner, a {censored} load of cables and power supplies, and you still wouldn't have the ability to sync tap tempo or continuous control on all the units or have the type of preset control that you get with the M-13.

 

Maybe if you used fewer switches and relied on more scene memory, that could work, but I don't know...People get worked up over the size yet many folks have two of the 4 switch pedal modelers on their board or one and a Boss Twin Pedal or an Eventide...any pair of those isn't much smaller than one M-13.

[huutevar]

Part of the appeal of a smaller M13 would be a lower price :-). I don't use effects that much, so a smaller M13 would be a perfect way for me to carry a variety of effects that get occasional use without having to carry separate pedals for ring mod, octavia, etc. Or whammy and eq if those get implemented (yea, feature creep!).

 

As far as the midi/usb debate goes, the idea of backing up presets on a usb drive really makes sense to me. Digital machines of any sort occasionally go crazy and it would be reassuring to have a data backup handy. I would never bring a laptop and usb to midi cable to a gig just for a backup but I would bring a usb drive.

[royal crxsh johnson]

i could possibly see myself getting rid of my floor pedalboard.....putting the pedals in a rack drawer....and getting busy with writing some presets!

 

 

axefx'd?

 

EDIT: post 300!

[Bobby D]

axefx'd? EDIT: post 300!

 

 

 

 

 

where's my KNOBS?????

[richrenken]

See below.

 

 

Hey Rich, very good to see such active involvement with end users, it's a practice that certain other vendors should take note of. ======== Thanks Ok, firstly, I've only just recently bought an M13 off eBay. It came velcro'ed down in a pedal case and appears to work fine. Problem is the previous owner, for some reason, removed all the screws that holds the two halves of the casing together (presumably to get at the internals quickly without having to rip it off the velcro?). So I need to replace those screws, can you tell me what size they are so I can source them from somewhere? ======== They are just short metal screws. Some guys remove the rubber feet. But you are saying that he took the screws out all together? Secondly, I'm a little confused over firmware, despite having done some initial research. Bottom-line, is there any way the M13 firmware can be updated like other Line 6 products? I know USB isn't there so is there any other way? I can't recall the firmware version off-hand but it's probably an early one. The concern being that any fixes issued in later versions would not be available to me without having to splash out for a new unit (and that would be just plain silly). ==== Anyone can get the latest firmware for free. Also, are there any plans to introduce new FX models to the M13? While I agree there's enough to be getting on with, the concern once again that later versions could make mine obsolete. ====== It will always be updateable. Yes, we are talking model packs. Apart from USB connectity, one other useful feature we could do with is a master volume for the amp driving FX. I fully understand the concept of the M13 and the way it works but an extra facility like an MV would be really useful. I know I could buy an MV pedal to go with it but I'd rather save the space on the board for something else. ==== Lost me on this one. So a dedicated volume knob that when all the way up brings the M13 to unity gain? Just one note from me regarding Line 6. Truly innovative products that simply make music more fun. I own a Variax, KB37, POD XT Live and now an M13. Having played guitar for over 30 years I can honestly say that we've never had it better. Keep up the good work!

 

[richrenken]

 

What a dork! I've just been on the Line 6 site and found the M13 firmware update details. So that answers some of my questions. But, here is one more: can I use my KB37 as a usb/midi device to perform the update? Thanks, Tony.

 

 

No problem.

 

I am not sure.

[richrenken]

Why pick one over the other...many products have both these days...like my Eventide Timefactor for one. Now there's an awesome product.

 

Bro, that is a delay pedal with three switches for $399. The M13 is steel, 15 switches, 4 LCD screens for $499. That is a perfect example of why we left off USB.

 

And yes, it is an awesome product. It was supposed to take out the DL4, but I am afraid nothing can take down the MIGHTY DL4!!!! MMUUUAAAHHHHAAA... Just playin.