So!...I hear Wattson have a new Fuzz?

[ollenorin]

fuzz is gay

[neoflox]

Well, let the customer decide whether he wants to spend more on an accurate replique or if he wants a more practical and inexpensive rebuild.

[echodeluxe]

fuzz is gay

 

 

you are looking for fuzz in your spam...

 

which leads me to believe you are actually trying to solicit gay sex. based on your own remark, of course...

[RoboPimp]

I especially like the sexy PCBs he makes. I don't have the patience (or the volume of orders of standard unmodified pedals) he does to do it, but you can't deny it has a beautiful aesthetic as well as making a clean, reliable build. My stuff looks decidedly amateur in comparison.

{censored} that is tidy work!

[Snufkino]

Well, let the customer decide whether he wants to spend more on an accurate replique or if he wants a more practical and inexpensive rebuild.

Just what I was going to say. As far as the price goes, yes it's expensive, but America is richer country with more resources at hand. And if people who love the old FY-2 and want to gig with a shin-ei clone that's authentic and comes with a few modern conveniences such as better quality parts and a more rugged enclosure then so be it.

I think Echo's lol comment was taken out of context. Maybe laughing at the 'unpleasant companion' name or something, rather than laughing at Tim's pedal like it's something cheap and inferior?

Anyway, I've got an original, which I love, side-jacks and all. If I was gigging and didn't want it being knocked about or risk being stolen, then something like Tim's unpleasant companion would definitely go in it's place. If I was a successful gigging musician then I might fork out for the Wattson. Maybe. But probably only if another clone didn't quite sound like or something.

FWIW if you're in the UK and really want an original FY-2, they usually go on ebay for between

[ShortScaleMike]

 

LED? who needs it? It's just a shocking waste of my battery's power that could be used to fuel more fuzz!

 

 

Time to go back to school. And batteries? BLERUGH.

[Snufkino]

Time to go back to school. And batteries? BLERUGH.

 

 

I've never been. And batteries are a necessary evil for old fuzz pedals. My Shin ei and scrambler clone won't work without them. Other than that, PSU's all the way.

[amp_surgeon]

Time to go back to school. And batteries? BLERUGH.

 

 

It's a reasonable point. Because it uses overdriven transistors for clipping, the FY-2 circuit gets very sputtery with a weak battery. The circuit itself draws less than 1mA, so it will still last for hours on a dying battery. The LED ups the current draw substantially.

 

In our pedal, the total draw with the LED on is 8.2mA. The LED is pulling 7.3mA by itself. That's not really a lot for an LED - enough for a soft glow - but still quite a bit more than the fuzz circuit alone. I could see someone cutting the LED wire at the switch in order to make a dying battery last a lot longer.

 

Yeah, I know - some pedal power supplies have a "sag" control to simulate a dying battery. It's a reasonable approximation of the dying battery effect, but it's not exactly the same. Most power supplies just use a pot in series with the power to drop some voltage. The resistance of the pot remains constant, so the voltage drop increases linearly with increases in current (e.g., louder playing). A battery's effective series resistance increases exponentially with increases in current, so the response isn't linear.

 

Some people also like to use batteries on gain pedals in order to completely isolate them from switching and digital noise coupled into the power supply line by other pedals. An alternative, of course, is a power supply with separate isolated outputs.

[RoboPimp]

Have you ever had a SINGLE MOMENT'S THOUGHT about my responsibilities? Have you ever thought, for a single solitary moment about my responsibilities to my employers? Has it ever occurred to you that I have agreed to look after the watson spam until May the FIRST. Does it MATTER TO YOU AT ALL that the OWNERS have placed their COMPLETE CONFIDENCE and TRUST in me, and that I have signed a letter of agreement, a CONTRACT, in which I have accepted that RESPONSIBILITY? Do you have the SLIGHTEST IDEA, what a MORAL AND ETHICAL PRINCIPLE IS, DO YOU? Has it ever occurred to you what would happen to my future, if I were to fail to live up to my responsibilities? Has it ever occurred to you? HAS IT?

[ShortScaleMike]

It's a reasonable point. Because it uses overdriven transistors for clipping, the FY-2 circuit gets very sputtery with a weak battery. The circuit itself draws less than 1mA, so it will still last for hours on a dying battery. The LED ups the current draw substantially. In our pedal, the total draw with the LED on is 8.2mA. The LED is pulling 7.3mA by itself. That's not really a lot for an LED - enough for a soft glow - but still quite a bit more than the fuzz circuit alone. I could see someone cutting the LED wire at the switch in order to make a dying battery last a lot longer. Yeah, I know - some pedal power supplies have a "sag" control to simulate a dying battery. It's a reasonable approximation of the dying battery effect, but it's not exactly the same. Most power supplies just use a pot in series with the power to drop some voltage. The resistance of the pot remains constant, so the voltage drop increases linearly with increases in current (e.g., louder playing). A battery's effective series resistance increases exponentially with increases in current, so the response isn't linear. Some people also like to use batteries on gain pedals in order to completely isolate them from switching and digital noise coupled into the power supply line by other pedals. An alternative, of course, is a power supply with separate isolated outputs.

 

 

Loads of fuzzes sound exactly no different on batteries or power supplies, I find it quite upsetting that lots of people still use something as bad for the environment as batteries on fuzzes that sound just as good (and are a lot more reliably good sounding) as on power supplies. I completely understand that people have to supply battery clips or customers get upset (although I don't as a rule, only supplying them with positive ground pedals, and even then I wire the power jack connection so it can be used with a negative ground boss supply if it's individual or isolated), because personally I really don't like the impact battery production and disposal has on the planet.

 

I'm sorry, I really can't see someone snipping at the inside of your $199 pedal to cut the consumption - you must have a very different perspective of your prospective customers than I do.

 

Good luck with the pedal. It's not my thing in it's aesthetic and price point but I'm sure a lot of people will really like it.

[amp_surgeon]

Loads of fuzzes sound exactly no different on batteries or power supplies, I find it quite upsetting that lots of people still use something as bad for the environment as batteries on fuzzes that sound just as good (and are a lot more reliably good sounding) as on power supplies. I completely understand that people have to supply battery clips or customers get upset (although I don't as a rule, only supplying them with positive ground pedals, and even then I wire the power jack connection so it can be used with a negative ground boss supply if it's individual or isolated), because personally I really don't like the impact battery production and disposal has on the planet. I'm sorry, I really can't see someone snipping at the inside of your $199 pedal to cut the consumption - you must have a very different perspective of your prospective customers than I do. Good luck with the pedal. It's not my thing in it's aesthetic and price point but I'm sure a lot of people will really like it.

 

 

The FY-6 circuit doesn't begin to sound substantially different until the battery is very nearly dead, and then you get about an hour of crackling and sizzling before the battery is completely gone. This is mostly because the stabilized bias preamp stage tends to compensate for the low battery. The FY-2 circuit is different. It's very sensitive to both signal and voltage level, and the tone changes noticeably when either of these begin to drop off.

 

Dunno how it works in the UK, but in California we're required to recycle batteries so they don't end up in a land fill. We don't have laws comparable to RoHS (yet), but we're also required to recycle electronics. The objective is the same - to keep heavy metals and toxic chemicals out of the land fills and ground water. It's possible to use batteries and still be environmentally conscious.

 

Most of our testing is done with a bench power supply, but the final test (after the enclosure is bolted shut) is done with a battery. We don't ship the pedal with a battery installed (it's actually illegal in the US, but many pedal makers do it), so we use the same battery repeatedly. The final test doesn't last more than a few minutes, so that battery might last a month or more. Still, we have a battery recycling bin where we put the used batteries. When the bin is full we put the batteries in a zip lock bag, and they go out with the rest of the recycle stuff to be hauled away and recycled.

 

Our customers mod our pedals frequently. They're rugged and aesthetically appealing, but they're not rare or vintage. I guess it would be different if we were doing limited editions with a fixed number of pedals in each series, but that's not what we're doing. We plan to continue making each pedal as long as people keep buying them. I haven't actually heard of anyone snipping the LED lead in order to get longer use from a dying battery, but I wouldn't be the least surprised if they did.

 

We see this strictly from a business perspective, and not as a craft or an art. Any mediocre engineer can produce a circuit that has the same tone as a classic pedal. By the same token, we see the aesthetics as being critically important. A lot of people have an emotional connection with the visual appearance of a pedal that purports to be a reproduction of a classic. Putting that classic circuit in an aluminum brick is comparable to bolting a fiberglass body on a 57 Bel Air chassis. That's our niche. We realize it's not important to everyone, but judging from the comments on the PGS website for the FY-2, a lot of people apparently agree with us.

[TheHarakiriEnd]

I like to use batteries so that I don't have to mess with plugs or adapters and all that. I understand that with things like delay a lot of the time there won't be one but if at all possible I like the option. It's silly to me to bring adapters, surge protectors or whatever to a gig/practice if I am using 2 or 3 pedals. There are proper ways to dispose of them.

I will definitely be picking up both of your pedals this year Amp/Echo. They look and sound great .

Mike you do seem to be coming on a little strong in this thread...

[RoboPimp]

Putting that classic circuit in an aluminum brick is comparable to bolting a fiberglass body on a 57 Bel Air chassis. That's our niche.

[motzman13]

why don't you guys just {censored} and get it over with....

[echodeluxe]

i would LOVE to {censored}.

[RoboPimp]

i would LOVE to {censored}.

 

 

I hear echo d likes his input and his output on the same side.

[motzman13]

I hear echo d likes his input and his output on the same side.

[spentron]

In our pedal, the total draw with the LED on is 8.2mA. The LED is pulling 7.3mA by itself. That's not really a lot for an LED - enough for a soft glow - but still quite a bit more than the fuzz circuit alone. I could see someone cutting the LED wire at the switch in order to make a dying battery last a lot longer.

 

 

I'm using some blue LEDs now that I'm running at about 0.5 mA -- and it's still too bright (that's a 15K series resistor). Some of the superbright red ones also can run down to about 1.5 mA.

[echodeluxe]

I hear echo d likes his input and his output on the same side.

 

 

absolutely.

[H.R. Shove and Stuff]

oh you guys

[amp_surgeon]

I'm using some blue LEDs now that I'm running at about 0.5 mA -- and it's still too bright (that's a 15K series resistor). Some of the superbright red ones also can run down to about 1.5 mA.

 

 

Blue LED's tend to have a much higher luminous output for the same current level than red. Personally, I don't like blue LED's. I find the color wavelength to be painful to look at for more than a second or two, and I find it difficult to clearly see anything near them - sort of like trying to make out the details of a car's grill when the headlights are shining in your face. I find red and green to be a lot easier on my eyes. Dunno. That's just my opinion.

 

The ones we use come mounted in a chrome bezel, and are standard brightness red T1-3/4 (5mm) size. They have a luminous output of 40mcd at 30mA, so we're running them at about 25% full output. They're made by Lumex.

 

I looked at some low current red LED's a couple of years ago, when we were first getting started. Even at the max current of 2mA they were difficult to see under stage lights, and rated at only a few mcd. On the other hand, the standard brightness LED's we're using now aren't even visibly lit at 2mA. They aren't bright at 7.3mA under stage lights, but you can tell that they're on.

[echodeluxe]

PENIS PENIS PENIS

[EL KABONG]

I'd rather have my pedals in a small mxr sized aluminum box. Thats how most booteek effects come and thats what i am used to. Flashing back to the 70's or 60's isn't often a good thing for me. So a neat little zvex artsy box is more appealing to me i also like the looks of Dr Scientist boxes. But I prolly wouldnt be buying your boxes anyway cause the clips havent done anything for me yet.

[amp_surgeon]

I'd rather have my pedals in a small mxr sized aluminum box. Thats how most booteek effects come and thats what i am used to. Flashing back to the 70's or 60's isn't often a good thing for me. So a neat little zvex artsy box is more appealing to me i also like the looks of Dr Scientist boxes. But I prolly wouldnt be buying your boxes anyway cause the clips havent done anything for me yet.

That's cool. There are many people who won't buy our FY-6 pedal for the same reasons - they either don't have any use for the FY-6 sound, or they don't like the vintage style box. We're cool with that.

The boutique pedal industry is crowded. There are a lot of people making reproductions of both of these pedals. As I said before, any decent engineer can design a circuit that will recreate the tone of the original pedals, or even just copy the original circuit verbatim using NOS parts. Our niche is the vintage style enclosures. It's what sets us apart. There are a lot of older players who have fond memories of owning one of those pedals when they were younger, and want to recapture that with a quality modern product. A lot of them aren't even performing musicians. They're professionals in other fields who like to get together with their friends and jam on the weekends, and they've got buckets of money to spend on their hobby. We get emails from these guys all the time. There are also younger players who just dig the look of the vintage style box. Those are the people we're catering to. We're not trying to monopolize the market on Shin-ei reproductions. Seriously, nobody could hope to do that.

There are enough pedal makers who are building FY-2 reproductions, as well as a few DIY options, that everyone who wants an FY-2 should be able to find one that has an enclosure size and configuration that suits their taste.

[echodeluxe]

tl;dr