After a lifetime of hating chorus, I finally get it

[iodine74]

After seeing this a few years ago, it changed my perception of modulation and found that chorus/flange before distortion can be cool. Personally can't stand Kirk's use of it on Nevermind. Always been fine with it for stuff like The Cure and The Church.

 

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[-Andrew-]

loved using a very subtle analog chorus on the m13 for my cleans...very sweet

[Phil O'Keefe]

Very interesting. I've used a bit of time-shift (basically just duping a track, and nudging it by 10-20ms) and hard panning them for a space, or sending reverb/delay sends to different points in the stereo signal. I've never used pre-delay with pitch-shifting before. I'll give it a shot. Thanks! :phil:

You can use the clone the track / time shift trick; just add some pitch shift to the time shifted track(s) and see what you think.

Another way to do essentially the same thing is to use an aux send to route the signal through a delay (set 100% wet, no regeneration and with a 10-30ms delay time) and then feed that into a pitch shift plugin, set for a few cents sharp... and use a second aux to send it to a second delay, with the same basic setup but a slightly different delay time and with its pitch shifter set for a few cents flat... use the aux return levels to adjust the ratio of the source sound and the detuned clone(s).

Either way, you're doing basically the same thing - creating a "duplicate" of the source sound that is delayed by several milliseconds, and then subtly detuned...

[KnewMono]

If you want a chorus with a delay time knob, buy a flanger

[TravvyBear]

Chorus is awesome.

[majafa]

I love chorus. I use a red witch empress chorus and turn down the mix knob. When it's on you can barely tell but when it's off it feels like something is missing.

 

I also never understood why it seems everyone likes modulation on their delays but hates chorus...

[Coach]

 

One of my favorite pedals ever. A delay knob is essential to a good chorus pedal.

[Jules-RM]

Yesss.... come to the dark side.... don't forget your eyeliner...

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[christianatl]

The Malekko Omicron chorus sounds pretty sweet in the demo for the Omicron fuzz.

[sparkfriction]

If you want a chorus with a delay time knob, buy a flanger

or one of the cool chorus pedals MAXON-CS550, Red Witch Empress Chorus, Visual Sound (also great)... and and and

[Bobby D]

why do old people like chorus? :lol:

[sparkfriction]

why do old people like chorus? :lol:

haha Bobby - nice one

[PermaNoobie]

Either way, you're doing basically the same thing - creating a "duplicate" of the source sound that is delayed by several milliseconds, and then subtly detuned...

We used to call that ADT (automatic Double Tracking) at least when it got wide enough time spread where it wasn't just phasing artifacts, etc but you could just start to perceive it as two images -- has that term fallen out of favor?

[Phil O'Keefe]

We used to call that ADT (automatic Double Tracking) at least when it got wide enough time spread where it wasn't just phasing artifacts, etc but you could just start to perceive it as two images -- has that term fallen out of favor?

To quote myself...

Modulate the degree of pitch shifting AND the delay times, and it's essentially similar to ADT (automatic double tracking).

Yes, it's not unusual for people to refer to any artificial doubling technique as "ADT", although to me, that term refers to a specific method, and isn't a generic term. Today, more often than not, people tend to just say "double" or "doubling" to refer to both manual doubling (where the part is played or sung twice) and artificial doubling methods.

Cloning a track and offsetting it by 30-40ms alone isn't enough to qualify as "ADT" IMO. The original Abbey Road ADT required a very specific two tape deck setup with just the right head spacing and tape speeds (one machine running twice as fast as the other), as well as the ability to modulate them via a LFO that controlled the relative tape speeds - and thus, the relative pitch and delay times. With ADT, it was possible to have the "double" precede the original. You also get the variations in the duplicate that are intrinsic to a second generation analog recording such as wow and flutter, distortion, hiss, bandpass filtering, etc. Those subtle variations between double and source are not really "there" in the same way when you use a digital delay or clone things in a DAW. It's also one of the reasons that my nicely equipped Pro Tools HD based studio still has a half track analog deck with varispeed and post-recording tape monitoring capability in service.

IMHO, there's nothing quite like doing it the "reel" way (pardon the pun), and even what I do here isn't quite the same (I'm only using one analog deck, as opposed to two), so I almost hesitate to call it "ADT"... but it's certainly closer than most of the other techniques we've been discussing.

The book "Recording The Beatles" has the best writeup on the technique that I have ever seen. Wiki kind of gets it right, but isn't as accurate, as easily understood, plainly stated or well illustrated as the book is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_double_tracking

If you have access to Recording The Beatles, read their writeup on the technique instead.

[PermaNoobie]

To quote myself...

oops, didn't see that other post

. The original Abbey Road ADT required a very specific two tape IMHO, there's nothing quite like doing it the "reel" way (pardon the pun)

I hear ya, very little is going to be "quite like" something else - just like double tracking is isn't quite the same thing as two different performances and none of it is quite like live doubling (when string players are dynamically intoning against one another, etc)

Personally, I'm kind of the other way - the Abbey Road technique being a specific (albeit original) implementation of ADT - with a lot of manual process in that "automatic"


but pluggign into a delay line is sure a lot more expedient and can have its own character

With ADT, it was possible to have the "double" precede the original

yeah,it's basically a variant of through-zero so it's that two-delay line off-set trick again if you want to do it delay line-style.... fire up the 606!

(come to think of it..ADT is another thing Anderton covered in the Digi delay Handbook)

[gorebuc]

One of my favorite pedals ever. A delay knob is essential to a good chorus pedal.

I was going to say I've learned to love my DOD FX60...no delay knob, but great subtle, REM "Fables of the Reconstruction"-style chorus.

[Phil O'Keefe]

if you want to do it delay line-style.... fire up the 606!

 

606?

 

(come to think of it..ADT is another thing Anderton covered in the Digi delay Handbook)

 

I've read several of Craig's books, and my respect for him knows no bounds... but I must confess that I never read that particular book.

[PermaNoobie]

if you want to do it delay line-style.... fire up the 606! 606?

the symetrix 606 - great dual delay line system great for stuff like that
really flexible and quite the sleeper

I've read several of Craig's books, and my respect for him knows no bounds... but I must confess that I never read that particular book.

yeah, we were talking about it in the through zero flanging thread a little

it was a nice work - doubt on of your experience and in this day and age would get any startling revelations from it (not a slight on the book in the least - just a matter of context)
but still might be worth a read for folks interested in this sort of stuff


but alas - regardless of the name...doubling me, by whatever means, just gives the listener twice the unpleasantness

[musikerochan]

{censored}. i still couldnt get to like chorus. still sounds cheesy to me

 

chorus, i still hate you.

[seifukusha]

 

 

wtaching now, but recently ive come to that as well

[simmerman11]

[Mind_Riot89]

I like chorus. It's actually not too hard to use it without it sounding 80s.

[seifukusha]

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my partner's

[Operator]

You can use the clone the track / time shift trick; just add some pitch shift to the time shifted track(s) and see what you think. Another way to do essentially the same thing is to use an aux send to route the signal through a delay (set 100% wet, no regeneration and with a 10-30ms delay time) and then feed that into a pitch shift plugin, set for a few cents sharp... and use a second aux to send it to a second delay, with the same basic setup but a slightly different delay time and with its pitch shifter set for a few cents flat... use the aux return levels to adjust the ratio of the source sound and the detuned clone(s). Either way, you're doing basically the same thing - creating a "duplicate" of the source sound that is delayed by several milliseconds, and then subtly detuned...

Very awesome, thank you! I tracked a guitar idea I've been working on and have been experimenting with this technique, and it's pretty sweet. I'm also trying your delay aux send, but instead of adding a pitch shift, I'm using the delay's modulation (set extremely light). Sounds wonky!

[Jesse G]

 

But if I turn the depth knob on a stereo chorus almost all the way down. At, say, 8:00 to where it's barely noticeable, it gives stuff a really cool stereo image effect.

 

 

 

Yup, I love the widening effect of chorus but I hate if I can actually hear the swirling.