A Serious Question About Creativity....

[mlabbee]

 

I kinda see the point he is trying to make, but I think doing many things helps open your mind to new ideas. Like sculpting something might make you more aware of size and shape, which might improve your painting skills. And projecting feelings through song might help you grasp the feeling you want someone to share when viewing your watercolor.

 

 

Whenever I see questions like this arise, the first thing that pops into my mind is "The Artist's Way" - I call it a 12-Step program for artists, but it's a book that leads you through a 12 week exercise to learn how to harness and manage creativity. One of the major components of the exercise is doing a bunch of writing every day (regardless of the form or art you pursue) and it's remarkably effective. I did this when I was trying to do photography professionally and my work improved in leaps and bounds while I was doing this (sadly, what I really needed was an equivalent program for the business side :-) ).

 

The lesson that I learned is that creativity and being competent (and hopefully, good) at your art is all about being disciplined about your work. All of your effort does not need to be devoted to a singular form of art, but all of your effort does need to be focused on the creative process. If you are really trying to pursue artistic development, I would highly recommend giving this book a try - I've seen groups of people who meet once a week kind of as a support group (that's how I did it) - that can make it really fun to do when you have people trying the same things and lending moral support.

[Ryan.]

 

I'm sure that there are a great many examples of people, I can name quite few, John Cage, Nam Jun Paik etc., but how do we determine if our own pursuits are not suffering from distraction?

 

 

Thats tough.

 

I'd like to know what Adam Jones or John Cage may be like if they'd had a professor tell them, just put down *insert art here* and focus on your *insert art here*.

 

As far as knowing... thats tough. If you paint all your life and never try another medium, how do you know you're not just a mediocre painter who could be an awesome guitarist if someone had only put one in your hands!?

 

Another thing to think about is the constant distraction of EVERYTHING. I'm gonna go back to golf as an example. When I go to the driving range with a buddy, we sit and hit balls. I think about the people around me hitting balls. I think about whether my beer is getting warm. I think about what club I'm going to use after the one I'm using now. I think about work, the gf, the rent payment, if I should go back to school.

 

If I wanted to get really good at golf. I would pick up my sand wedge, and I'd hit 100 balls at the same target over and over and think only about what I'm doing right and wrong.

 

How much do you give up to limit your distractions in order to get good at 1 thing?

[companyman]

Bull{censored} (IMHO) statements such as this, are exactly the reason that i left art school. Some of the best(meaning creative, inventive, productive) musicians i know, are also some of the best(meaning the same) visual artists. As others here have touched on, creative endeavors, do not tend to respond well to the application of any strict rule. There are artists who work that way(i.e. applying strict rules to their own work) and that is a very different thing, but i am highly suspect of(to put it... nicely) any creative person who would try to enforce their own strict rules on any other creative person. To me that indicates someone who doesn't understand creativity very well.

 

...but he does understand it, very well. He has been cultivating his work since the early sixties. His has been a slow, exponentially growing success.

[companyman]

 

Thats tough. I'd like to know what Adam Jones or John Cage may be like if they'd had a professor tell them, just put down *insert art here* and focus on your *insert art here*. As far as knowing... thats tough. If you paint all your life and never try another medium, how do you know you're not just a mediocre painter who could be an awesome guitarist if someone had only put one in your hands!? Another thing to think about is the constant distraction of EVERYTHING. I'm gonna go back to golf as an example. When I go to the driving range with a buddy, we sit and hit balls. I think about the people around me hitting balls. I think about whether my beer is getting warm. I think about what club I'm going to use after the one I'm using now. I think about work, the gf, the rent payment, if I should go back to school. If I wanted to get really good at golf. I would pick up my sand wedge, and I'd hit 100 balls at the same target over and over and think only about what I'm doing right and wrong. How much do you give up to limit your distractions in order to get good at 1 thing?

 

 

that last statement is what separates the wheat from the chaff I think...

we all set our own standards of course, it depends on what we want from the pursuit, and what determines success to us.

[mlabbee]

 

How much do you give up to limit your distractions in order to get good at 1 thing?

 

 

I really do suggest doing "The Artist's Way" (no, I don't make any money off of it). It deals with the whole "distraction" issue really well - even if you don't do the program, give it a read. It gives you a very different perspective on being an artist than the usual stereotypes about "inspiration" and "muses."

[V]

BS. Almost every good writer I personally know is also a musician.

 

Look at a lot of filmmakers who do their own script writing, soundtracks, and acting and are very good at all of them.

 

You can create something very powerful with a unified vision guiding various artforms into one project.

[Ryan.]

 

I really do suggest doing "The Artist's Way" (no, I don't make any money off of it). It deals with the whole "distraction" issue really well - even if you don't do the program, give it a read. It gives you a very different perspective on being an artist than the usual stereotypes about "inspiration" and "muses."

 

 

How bad are the religious overtones in this?

[chris_d]

 

...but he does understand it, very well. He has been cultivating his work since the early sixties. His has been a slow, exponentially growing success.

 

 

No, it sounds like he understands his own creative processes. This does not, at all, mean that he understands yours, or anyone else's.

 

IMO.

 

And quite honestly, you do not have to understand creativity at all, to be a successful artist. You just have to go with what works for you.

 

But, again, my main point is: don't get mixed up and start to think that there is a universal rule about what works for anyone else for making art. Learn what works for you. It will rarely be exactly the same as what works for any other artist.

[devi]

Look at a lot of filmmakers who do their own script writing, soundtracks, and acting and are very good at all of them.

 

Word. Check out the special features on Once Upon a Time in Mexico. Robert Rodriguez's home studio is sick... surprised to find out not only does he write, direct, and special effect, but also creates the musical score.

 

oooh... here it is online :

 

@3:20 is where the relevant music portion is at

@6:55 busts out the guitar

 

[YOUTUBE]cJn4r09I0s0[/YOUTUBE]

 

[YOUTUBE]t4LDcjWycNo[/YOUTUBE]

[mlabbee]

 

How bad are the religious overtones in this?

 

 

None at all - it's a little touchy-feeley, as you might imagine, but I'm really allergic to overly "spiritual" kinds of things and it didn't bother me at all.

 

Basically, the way it works is that you start every day by writing a couple of pages (doesn't matter what you write - the point is to get into a habit of working every day) and then slowly add different exercises (like taking personal time to take in new things - an hour at a museum, etc.) You write letters to yourself and other people in your life (you don't send them) - that kind of thing. I can tell you that everyone in my little group wound up having a very similar experience as me - an dramatic increase in work output and several of us had pretty dramatic epiphanies about our work. It really was pretty cool and I never felt like it cut into my other interests - it just got me very focused on my photography and my work was much more intense and disciplined.

[companyman]

 

None at all - it's a little touchy-feeley, as you might imagine, but I'm really allergic to overly "spiritual" kinds of things and it didn't bother me at all. Basically, the way it works is that you start every day by writing a couple of pages (doesn't matter what you write - the point is to get into a habit of working every day) and then slowly add different exercises (like taking personal time to take in new things - an hour at a museum, etc.) You write letters to yourself and other people in your life (you don't send them) - that kind of thing. I can tell you that everyone in my little group wound up having a very similar experience as me - an dramatic increase in work output and several of us had pretty dramatic epiphanies about our work. It really was pretty cool and I never felt like it cut into my other interests - it just got me very focused on my photography and my work was much more intense and disciplined.

 

 

that" Artist's Way" thing can be helpful for people, I've heard. I just did all of those kinds of things instinctively....

[Ryan.]

None at all - it's a little touchy-feeley, as you might imagine, but I'm really allergic to overly "spiritual" kinds of things and it didn't bother me at all. Basically, the way it works is that you start every day by writing a couple of pages (doesn't matter what you write - the point is to get into a habit of working every day) and then slowly add different exercises (like taking personal time to take in new things - an hour at a museum, etc.) You write letters to yourself and other people in your life (you don't send them) - that kind of thing. I can tell you that everyone in my little group wound up having a very similar experience as me - an dramatic increase in work output and several of us had pretty dramatic epiphanies about our work. It really was pretty cool and I never felt like it cut into my other interests - it just got me very focused on my photography and my work was much more intense and disciplined.

 

Very cool, thanks for the tip!

[V]

 

 

 

Good call. I was actually thinking of Clint Eastwood, Woody Allen, and John Carpenter.

[mlabbee]

 

Learn what works for you. It will rarely be exactly the same as what works for any other artist.

 

 

This is true, with one caveat. While every artists' process may be unique, the one common thread among successful artists (by "success" I mean financial but also creative success - i.e., recognized as good/new/unique) - they work really hard at what they do. I first got this when I saw Picasso's pencil drawings of bulls. It was an incredible progression from really busy, intricate drawings to very simple line drawings that were remarkably expressive. Seeing the progression, you could see the idea of what he wanted to do from the very first drawing evolve as he sorted out how to do it. There's no doubt in my mind that the final drawing was what he first imagined, but there's also no doubt in my mind that he had to do the 20 or 30 drawings that preceded it to figure out how to get to his vision. That is a lot of work and you need to do it if you want to be able to achieve that kind of expression.

[Phil O'Keefe]

 

But, again, my main point is: don't get mixed up and start to think that there is a universal rule about what works for anyone else for making art. Learn what works for you. It will rarely be exactly the same as what works for any other artist.

 

 

:phil:

 

I have people asking me, on a regular basis, about how to become a recording producer / engineer. Do they need to play an instrument? Should they go to school, and if so, what type of school, etc. etc. And my reply always includes caveats about the importance of individuality and how most successful producers / engineers have a uniquely individual story; they all took their own unique path to get where they are today. You can't follow someone else's path - you have to forge your own.

 

I think you can learn from others, and being exposed to various things as part of your education - whether it is a formal school, private / mentored or autodidactic learning process - is quite important. But especially with artistic endeavours, I feel it is extremely important to leave room for the individual path, the individual's expression.

[E.money]

More of Cyriak's work here : http://www.cyriak.co.uk/ (he does both the music and art / animation btw) Anyhow... my thoughts (and experience) on this subject is that there is plenty of room to excel at both in one's life. The trick is, if you want to be equally masterful in both regards, you'll most likely be sacrificing a lot of social and down time most of the populace is used to having in their lives. ... but if you love what you do, regardless of how many things you love to do, why would you let what anyone thinks about the quality of such things stop you from doing them.

 

i agree, its about having enough energy and focus to do both and not be destracted by "social and down time". in my opinion as and artist, music is just another medium. knowing how to compose and minipulate sound doesnt put a cap on my artistic capibilites, it expands them.

[mlabbee]

Very cool, thanks for the tip!

 

Sure thing - good luck!

 

I've actually been in a bit of an artistic funk lately and this whole conversation has made me realize that I need to do the book again - I'm digging out my copy tonight.

[companyman]

 

This is true, with one caveat. While every artists' process may be unique, the one common thread among successful artists (by "success" I mean financial but also creative success - i.e., recognized as good/new/unique) - they work really hard at what they do. I first got this when I saw Picasso's pencil drawings of bulls. It was an incredible progression from really busy, intricate drawings to very simple line drawings that were remarkably expressive. Seeing the progression, you could see the idea of what he wanted to do from the very first drawing evolve as he sorted out how to do it. There's no doubt in my mind that the final drawing was what he first imagined, but there's also no doubt in my mind that he had to do the 20 or 30 drawings that preceded it to figure out how to get to his vision. That is a lot of work and you need to do it if you want to be able to achieve that kind of expression.

 

 

a key element is great sacrifice in Artistic pursuit....finding a balance is a whole different battle.

[PermaNoobie]

 

but how do we determine if our own pursuits are not suffering from distraction?

 

 

with regard to the title "A Serious Question About Creativity.... "

 

It sounds to me like your question might be about accomplishment than creativity itself.

[companyman]

the notion of selling all of my gear and becoming more singular in my focus has been niggling in my brain for a couple of months now.....

[Parah Salin]

If anything I'd think music would help inspire your art side and vice versa. Sometimes I get burnt out when focusing all of my energy on one thing. I'd imagine it'd vary from person to person though.

[PermaNoobie]

 

the notion of selling all of my gear and becoming more singular in my focus has been niggling in my brain for a couple of months now.....

 

 

have you considered maybe putting your music gear away for, say, 90 days and seeing how you feel about it then.

 

I'm not sure what your musical pursuits are like currently, but it can always be something you just do as a relaxation from your area of primary focus the same way some may play board games or watch television or go on walks

[companyman]

 

with regard to the title "A Serious Question About Creativity.... " It sounds to me like your question might be about accomplishment than creativity itself.

 

 

you have a point, it is, but perhaps not like you might be conceiving of accomplishment. I am not really talking about $, as much as pushing my Sisyphean boulder up the mountain....I am given fleeting glimpses of where my creativity is leading, accomplishment would be capturing enough of my impulse to make me recognize it, and to ascertain the next step in pursuit.

[PermaNoobie]

you have a point, it is, but perhaps not like you might be conceiving of accomplishment. I am not really talking about $

 

I'm not talking about $ either

accomplishment doesn't have to be $

and if it was...the arts generally ain't the place to be for that

[companyman]

 

If anything I'd think music would help inspire your art side and vice versa. Sometimes I get burnt out when focusing all of my energy on one thing. I'd imagine it'd vary from person to person though.

 

 

music is always on when I am in deep studio mode, it is a huge part of my life, but Painting is my "Work"....somewhere along the way I allowed more distraction in. I have monastic tendencies....I would go weeks without speaking to anyone but my lady probably, if I wasn't forced to deal with the public to scrape out a semi-living.