Members OverDriven Posted January 19, 2005 Members Share Posted January 19, 2005 Originally posted by DiezelDude not true, I know several guys who've gotten local authorities to go right to someone's doorstep...... Local authorities cannot do jack! What do you think they will say? "Uhhh...this guy called us and told us to make you give him his money back!" No. Carl can slam the door in thier face and they can't do a damn thing. A judge has to review all the information in the case, and then decide if Carl commited a crime. So it has to be brought to small claims court, and the way to do this is through a lawyer. -Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DiezelDude Posted January 19, 2005 Members Share Posted January 19, 2005 Talk to PRSAholic on the Gear Page. He's a former cop, he knows what to do. OK, Overdriven, then I guess the guy that handed the local police the money for an ADA MP1 that he never shipped was just a dream. I'm not saying the local cops will solve every situation, but they often are persuasive enough to scare an otherwise 'reluctant shipper' into making it happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarded_1 Posted January 19, 2005 Members Share Posted January 19, 2005 Originally posted by DiezelDude Talk to PRSAholic on the Gear Page. He's a former cop, he knows what to do.OK, Overdriven, then I guess the guy that handed the local police the money for an ADA MP1 that he never shipped was just a dream.I'm not saying the local cops will solve every situation, but they often are persuasive enough to scare an otherwise 'reluctant shipper' into making it happen. I'm pretty sure that Mark Greco is facing time due to the intervention of local police (and perhaps federal as well). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DiezelDude Posted January 19, 2005 Members Share Posted January 19, 2005 Another Net acquaintance managed to get a guy thrown in jail for 18 months, using local authorities and other methods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pluto Posted January 19, 2005 Members Share Posted January 19, 2005 Originally posted by OverDriven Local authorities cannot do jack! What do you think they will say? "Uhhh...this guy called us and told us to make you give him his money back!" No. Carl can slam the door in thier face and they can't do a damn thing. A judge has to review all the information in the case, and then decide if Carl commited a crime. So it has to be brought to small claims court, and the way to do this is through a lawyer.-Joe This information is absolutely incorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grubgoat Posted January 19, 2005 Author Members Share Posted January 19, 2005 I guess a lawyer it is (I, too, imagine the FBI is a little busy, but it was worth a shot. Plus, I'm done calling him, so if Carl doesn't think I'm serious, he can see that I'm gonna follow through with this by reading this thread...) I just got a PM from someone claiming to have been waiting 1 1/2 years for an amp from Carl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Richard_S Posted January 19, 2005 Members Share Posted January 19, 2005 Keep updating us about this. I hope you nail this bastard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lenduffy Posted January 19, 2005 Members Share Posted January 19, 2005 You know...it's sad really. The dumb {censored} blew any shread of credibility he ever had (which wasn't much to begin with) and {censored} all over the people who believed in him and wanted to help him. Nice going Carl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members highgainlover Posted January 19, 2005 Members Share Posted January 19, 2005 Dude, take him to Judge Judy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grubgoat Posted January 23, 2005 Author Members Share Posted January 23, 2005 Judge Judy would be a last resort, I think... Carl PM'ed me, said I had a full refund coming via certified mail. I work midnights, so I was asleep today when USPS did indeed try to deliver a certified mail envelope. We'll see where this ends up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members the russ Posted January 23, 2005 Members Share Posted January 23, 2005 ctrl+f "sue" WTF. why hasn't someone suggested suing the guy yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members potaetoes Posted January 23, 2005 Members Share Posted January 23, 2005 speaking of marc greco... what ever happened to him? does he have a new cellmate/boyfriend yet? hopefully your money is in that envelope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grubgoat Posted January 23, 2005 Author Members Share Posted January 23, 2005 Here's a freaky side story: I turned on my Zwengel Banshee 50 to do a little recording a few minutes ago, and when I flipped the standby switch, one of the power tubes literally started arcing and lighting up like a lightbulb. I could hear the current draw - ZZZZAPPP! and now my bedroom smells like something burning. I've never had an amp do that before. I imagine that the tube has just gone bad (damnit I hope) cause the amp has always been pretty solid, but it gave me the creeps no less... BAD omen... EDIT: Yep, bad tube. Still, creepy vibes, man... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members imziggy Posted January 23, 2005 Members Share Posted January 23, 2005 Originally posted by Grubgoat Back when Lenduffy was trashing this guy, I was the *only* person here standing up for Carl Zwengel. So what's my next step? I can call the Princeton Ill. police dept., ......Hey Grubgoat...sent ya a "pm"......I'm "here" so get back to me. Greetings to the group...never figured my FIRST post would make such a statement....ya gotta love it tho! .........Watch out carl...............the wolf's at the door:cool: Bikerdude Ziggy-Livin' the life~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Paragraph51 Posted January 23, 2005 Members Share Posted January 23, 2005 Originally posted by Grubgoat Well, and I'm also trying to offer him an easier out. He claims to be broke. I doubt he's gonna want to give me $1600. But I'd bet he's got a couple amps sitting around. I may lose money, but at least I can save *a little* face and be done with this whole thing. But no, I'd never bother to go to him for warranty work, etc. And yes, I'd rather have my money back. I've followed this thread up to here. The amp business is a tough business... You often cut the budget, your personal budget real close, and put all your money into the amps in hopes you'll get a return that will allow you to balance your books before too late, before the mortgage and or income tax is due and stuff like that... Ampmakers don't get big grants to build amps.....maybe a small business loan...rich wives or parents is the key to success on a small business....if you don't have that, you are often riding a leaky boat on the sea of chances... I'd hope he has an amp to send you......who knows why he's been screwy, maybe his personal explanation to you in the e-mails, whatever that may have been, is the truth....or maybe he's f'ing up........?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grubgoat Posted January 23, 2005 Author Members Share Posted January 23, 2005 I can't argue with a thing you say there, Paragraph51. This is a lot of the reason I stuck up for him in the past, and didn't mind waiting long after I'd paid for the amp. And, being a dumb-ass, its not even a matter of "{censored} Carl Zwengel". I really don't have a personal problem with the guy. I just want my money back, and then I'm done - I won't be bad-mouthing the guy or trashing him. But I'm not gonna get ripped off, either. The goal isn't to ruin his business or anything... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Paragraph51 Posted January 23, 2005 Members Share Posted January 23, 2005 Originally posted by Grubgoat I can't argue with a thing you say there, Paragraph51. This is a lot of the reason I stuck up for him in the past, and didn't mind waiting long after I'd paid for the amp. And, being a dumb-ass, its not even a matter of "{censored} Carl Zwengel". I really don't have a personal problem with the guy. I just want my money back, and then I'm done - I won't be bad-mouthing the guy or trashing him. But I'm not gonna get ripped off, either. The goal isn't to ruin his business or anything... The goal is to get yor amp or recover your money. Too bad you don't live near him. Then you could talk amps with, get him enthusiastic to get you the amp right away...I do believe you stated that at this point you would rather get refunded. I know a few boutique ampmakers, and because their business is known not world wide like a household word, a few unkind words stated i print can cause them a lot of trouble...We can say Marshalls suck all we want, and even gather by the thousands to do so, but it would hardly dent Marshalls rep...the little guys....boutique builders who make by hand, they can't lose a single sale without taking a big bite into their comfort level.... Well, broke doesn't mean poor..its an optimistic term....Zwengel, being a semi-famous ampbuilder, he'll probably be able to scrounge up the money to get things in order..unless he's lost all his friends and aquaintances, and the banks refuse to touch him..... Well, you have to call him on the phone and speak with him personally..find out what's going on, but don't be one sided, he is after all a human being with feelings... People, although they try as they might to resist the urge, follow their feelings, and often condtion themselves to see things a certain, emotionally warped way. Don't create that situation unless its a positive one that empowers the guy to get amp or money to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grubgoat Posted January 23, 2005 Author Members Share Posted January 23, 2005 I don't know how long you've hung out at the amp forum, but maybe a year back, there was a *BIG* flap about this guy, and I was pretty much the only one sticking up for him, saying pretty much what you're saying now. And I've been talking to him on the phone for a year now, trying to get him enthused about finishing the amp, each time being told "it's *almost* done, but"... Hell, I put up the money for him to design a completely new circuit that he could sell to other people - I funded his R&D, even if it was only $1600. No one else was willing to do that. And I pretty much advertised for him *every time* I could, even suggsting the amp that he was building for me to other people. Anyone here who was paying attention will tell you that. The last time I spoke with him, I did tell him he was running out of time, and that I'd start taking other measures. To which I was told "its *almost* done, but...." The point is, I hate to have started a thread like this, but I was getting no where being polite. And around here, his rep had already been pretty much ruined. If the refund is indeed on its way here, I'll happily make sure that the fact gets out, that he did take care of me. But small business or no, you still have obligations to your customers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lenduffy Posted January 24, 2005 Members Share Posted January 24, 2005 Originally posted by Grubgoat I'll happily make sure that the fact gets out, that he did take care of me. Dude...I swear you are the most polite SOB ever. Yeah.....he took care of you alright....took care of me too. If bull{censored}ting and outright lying to people is "taking care of" then Carl is goddam Mother Theresa. He's had your money for over a year and a half, and hasn't done {censored} on your imaginary amp. At this point, even if he refunds you (a big if)....you provided him an interest free loan for almost 2 years! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dropthisd Posted January 24, 2005 Members Share Posted January 24, 2005 Originally posted by Grubgoat Back when Lenduffy was trashing this guy, I was the *only* person here standing up for Carl Zwengel. I'm done. It's been over a year now, still no amp, but I've gotten plenty of excuses. I've got all the emails and PM's between us concerning our agreement and his receipt of my money. Plus the PM a few weeks ago claiming the amp is on its way. (which of course never came).So what's my next step? I can call the Princeton Ill. police dept., though I'm not sure what they can do. I can get an attorney. There's lots of things to be done. Any legal brains out there want to offer some advice? My thought is, either he gives *ME* the money or an amp, or he'll give it to an attorney and whatever court costs. I would consider one factor, can you or a prosecutor prove criminal intent? If so let a prosecutor handle the matter. Running and executing a crappy business model is not criminal. I don't how much you're out but, find out what the limits are in your state for Small Claims court and file there. Its very effective and while there is no guarantee he will show or you will get your $$$, you have the ability to obtain a judgement and garnish his future income. If you feel you need an attorney then find one you are confident handling your case. When you retain the attorney, you're guaranteed one thing, the attorney always gets paid first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grubgoat Posted January 24, 2005 Author Members Share Posted January 24, 2005 Originally posted by lenduffy Dude...I swear you are the most polite SOB ever. Ha, that was pretty much my problem in the first place! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members imziggy Posted January 24, 2005 Members Share Posted January 24, 2005 Originally posted by dropthisd I don't how much you're out but, find out what the limits are in your state for Small Claims court and file there. If I'm not mistaken..it is $5000.00. Would be easy to check out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WARangel Posted January 31, 2005 Members Share Posted January 31, 2005 Originally posted by ranalli I may be wrong but it just seems that people think, "oh I'm on the internet...anyone can run a business here...." and voila...another failure. It's not just the Internet. The overwhelming majority of small business start ups fail - well over 50% and I think as high as 80%. Many others "doddle" along for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ranalli Posted January 31, 2005 Members Share Posted January 31, 2005 Originally posted by WARangel It's not just the Internet. The overwhelming majority of small business start ups fail - well over 50% and I think as high as 80%. Many others "doddle" along for years. You're right....the internet just speeds up the process:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grubgoat Posted February 16, 2005 Author Members Share Posted February 16, 2005 So, here's the follow-up, for anyone that's interested, or maybe anyone looking to do business with the man himself. I paid $1600 for an amp (I've got *plenty* of proof of this). After siccing the FBI and the Illinois Atty. General on him, and starting this thread, I guess I gave him a little scare, cause he PM'ed me and said I had a *full* refund on the way. The envelope I got had a PERSONAL check from Zwengel Amplifiers in it, made out for $1200. An attached letter says: "Paul, enclosed is a check for $1200 as an initial refund payment. I'll send you the balance out on the 1st of February, Regards, Carl Zwengel" This being the 16th of February, I'm inclined to think that the rest of that money ain't gonna show up. So, basically, I'm a really nice guy, donating $400 to the Carl Zwengel Charity Fund. If you're thinking of buying *ANYTHING* from this man, I'd re-read this thread and give it some serious thought. Normally I abhor bashing someone's rep. But the whole idea of doing business and trades over Harmony Central is based on trust, basically. Some {censored}er that can't hold up his end needs to be called out. Buyer Beware. I'm gonna keep bumping this every few weeks, so newbies see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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