Members girevik Posted June 10, 2009 Members Share Posted June 10, 2009 Numerology and Volta will not run on windows. this means if you want to use the best modular MIDI sequencer in the world, and the only direct computer-to-controlvoltage plugin which has a rat's chance of working you have to use a macintosh. Brings up a good point - it's all about the software. I'm still relatively new to Logic Studio, but I'm liking it a lot already. That's another app that probably won't be ported to Windows. I'm sure Sonar, etc. is ok too - no diss intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ElectricPuppy Posted June 10, 2009 Members Share Posted June 10, 2009 It's ABSOLUTELY all about the software. Whenever someone asks me, "what kind of computer should I get", my first questions are always, "What do you want to do with it? What software do you need to run?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members aeon Posted June 10, 2009 Members Share Posted June 10, 2009 _creatively_ the only thing i really need a modern mac for is Numerology. which, for some reason, i can't convince Jim to totally re-write for OS9.If only... cheers,Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members suitandtieguy Posted June 10, 2009 Members Share Posted June 10, 2009 I get your point to be sure - a lot of Adobe's new "features" were bloat as it concerns production work. That said, for the work I have done as it regards prepress, CS2 is/was a blessing - not the least of which is transparency support plus integration with .pdf/JDF workflows. the .pdf support is very nice to have. btw, do you have any idea if disabling command-tab application switching with the program linked above would allow me to use command-tab to move between the direct and the group selector? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members aeon Posted June 11, 2009 Members Share Posted June 11, 2009 btw, do you have any idea if disabling command-tab application switching with the program linked above would allow me to use command-tab to move between the direct and the group selector? I do not know. When I use Illustrator, I always use the direct selector, and use a modifier key or double-click to get group selections. cheers, Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NuSkoolTone Posted June 11, 2009 Members Share Posted June 11, 2009 It's fine that you like them, but to roll out all the same old BS about PC's is just silly. If you install a lot of warez on a Mac then you're similarly vulnerable to root kits. If you visit a lot of porn sites then the only reason you're less vulnerable to browser based attacks than a Vista user is because of market share, not because these things can't exist on a Mac. It's mainly about user actions in these cases, not a particular machine or OS being superior. And the Mac has plenty of its own equivalent annoyances when it comes to things like the registry.. As for endless configurations, what does that mean nowadays? Unless you go with AMD processors pretty much everything is running the same few Intel chipsets, the same ATi and Nvidia graphics, the same Realtek ethernet devices etc etc. And guess what? That includes Apple.. which is why you can often install a barely modified OSX on these machines without problems. The only thing that makes your Mac a Mac is a TPM chip which says "only install OSX on me". The quality of the Apple computer hardware isn't particularly stellar for the money.The main way people run into problems with PC's, other than the same ignorance which would bite them if the OSX market share were bigger, is through buying ultra cheap products via the big chains like Walmart. Even most of those are perfectly reliable, but you get some that are skimping on the quality of components - how many layers on the motherboard, how much copper is used, how many phases there are in its power design, whether they use solid state capacitors, how strict QC was on the memory etc. So you get an Apple so you don't have to think about that sort of stuff? Congrats. It also means you're getting extremely poor value for money, in terms of price paid Vs hardware delivered, and ignores the fact that most problems are extremely easy to avoid on the PC side if you'd take 5 minutes to inform yourself..You've also just installed an OS that massively limits your choices in many ways. Even the Adobe stuff, at the heart of Apples users, is behind on the Mac side Vs the PC, in terms of things like 64 bit support and hardware acceleration. But some people would rather pay more money to live in a walled garden, just like they'd rather pay more for other things in life. Nothing wrong with that at all. Just don't expect others to congratulate you for that. Or call out the fact that the majority of people who choose that path appear to do so for reasons of snobbery more than anything, since they've bought into the whole Apple / Starbucks / I'm a total liberal douchebag sort of lifestyle. I realize not all Apple owners are like that, and my sympathies to the Logic (etc) users who simply use their machine as a tool, but get lumped in with that lot.. Man, I couldn't have said it better myself. This guy just f*cking nailed it. BRAVO dude! There's not much difference AT ALL inside Macs and PC's of the same quality anymore with exception of the extra dongle chip. You'll pay a LOT more for the Mac though. Just google OSX 86 and see that lots of PC's can basically be an "apple". The "Magic" of Apple is in the OS, NOT the Hardware. Yet it still has it's own pros and cons vs. the "PC World". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Diametro Posted June 11, 2009 Members Share Posted June 11, 2009 My MacBook Pro is WAY MORE dependable and consistent than my Windows laptop and doesn't seem to get afflicted by the little weirdnesses and stupidities the XP system seems to incur/inflict ... Granted, I paid a lot more for the Mac ... but frankly, it's worth it for the superior experience ... I don't like using crappy tools ... I'm not sure what my next computer is going to be, but I doubt it will be a Windows machine ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mikelpanky Posted June 11, 2009 Members Share Posted June 11, 2009 Okay I'll agree that it's all about software. But that includes your operating system. There is no arguing that OS X is the best OS for music creation and audio editing out there. Besides having standard zero-lag without ghetto ASIO drivers, OS X is also a lot more junk-free than Windows XP and SOOOO much more so than Vista. This leads to faster opening of programs, plugins, sample libraries, etc. The performance is just there on Macs, and it's all due to the operating system that's behind it. Now I'm not saying that it's impossible or really even hard to record on a Windows PC. I do it every day. But that being say, it is a major PITA. Having used both platforms for music creation, I can safely say that I find Mac OSX better for music creation in every way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kooki_sf Posted June 11, 2009 Author Members Share Posted June 11, 2009 The "Magic" of Apple is in the OS, NOT the Hardware. yet what you fail to recognize is how well the operating system is integrated with the hardware. I had a dj set here in kyoto the other day, and not having lugged all my equipment here from the states, i borrowed a usb-midi controller/audio interface to control my mac laptop. I connected it about 5 minutes before I was to play. and you know what? I didn't have to worry about drivers. IT JUST WORKED.sure i could have spent less on a windows box, but i could have spent EVEN LESS on a linux box. if your going to go through the trouble of all the research and maintaining your own system, you might as well go all the way, because windows is a bloated piece of crap.and I am planning on doing that for my next portable, but my mac suits me fine for now because all of that lovely experimental linux audio and video software COMPILES ON MY MAC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members yeloop Posted June 11, 2009 Members Share Posted June 11, 2009 Ah, this is all so interesting. I've just sold an iMac and am planning on getting another one. I do like Macs a lot, and my experience up to 18 months ago, with a Windows PC, was one of frustration at every session we wanted to record music. The musicians would come to my studio, and then we'd end up spending an hour on some piece of gear that wouldn't talk to the PC, or even existing equipment (my Mackie Onyx 1220 analogue mixer / FW audio interface) that would decide that after months of working fine, today was time for a holiday. I bought a Mac, set up Cubase on it, loaded my virtual instruments, and everything has worked since then! I then decided to make a switch to Logic, which runs more effeciently (and seems to run three times as many plug ins and effects as Cubase could, without any signs of crashing...). Now it comes time to upgrade the iMac... I can't help but see that the new i7 Windows machines are so much better value in terms of raw processing power. On the other hand, I went to the Dell website to see what cost a Windows machine would be with the RAM and Firewire ports I needed, and larger hard drive, and all the other extra stuff that's needed to make music.Suddenly it wasn't so cheap, and that was without a monitor! And without included software like Time Machine, which makes it SO easy to restore your machine (the backup software I used on my old PC was never trustworthy)... I don't want to be a "Mac Person" just because they look funky or because of the hype that "everything just works"... but in my experience, the "just works" thing is kind of true. I have decided not to go back into the dangerous and hair-tearing world of Windows... it's just too risky after 18 months of pain-free Mac operation. I think there are heaps of "Mac People" out there who have been through a similar and equally logical process to choose which platform to go with... and probably found like I did that it's not a black and white decision, but that the Mac takes a lot of sense in the end... Then there are others who think Macs are trendy, decide that PCs are crap, and just seem to enjoy fighting about it on forums more than they enjoy using whatever they have to make music! Cheers,Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Yoozer Posted June 11, 2009 Members Share Posted June 11, 2009 (my Mackie Onyx 1220 analogue mixer / FW audio interface) that would decide that after months of working fine, today was time for a holiday.Plus they took a looooong time in releasing new drivers . I went to the Dell websiteSee, that's the thing I don't do .I order the parts. I've been out of the loop for a while when I assembled my previous system and haven't kept up in the meantime, but that's not an issue since other people can do that for me now (the difference is that I use a Dutch website for this which has an integrated pricewatch).The store I order the parts at offers me to pre-assemble; I don't have to since I've got my brother who likes to do this. Then there are others who think Macs are trendy, decide that PCs are crap, and just seem to enjoy fighting about it on forums more than they enjoy using whatever they have to make music!I think several medieval lords could only wish that their mercenaries were as loyals as fanboys . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kooki_sf Posted June 11, 2009 Author Members Share Posted June 11, 2009 lets tie this all back to the beginning of this thread shall we? this was a thread about laptops. how do those who have been promoting the cheapness of wholesale components intend to fit said parts into a portable package? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members yeloop Posted June 11, 2009 Members Share Posted June 11, 2009 lets tie this all back to the beginning of this thread shall we? this was a thread about laptops. how do those who have been promoting the cheapness of wholesale components intend to fit said parts into a portable package? Good point ... back to the original issue - well done Apple for dropping some of the prices on MacBook pros. Kinda about time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members suitandtieguy Posted June 11, 2009 Members Share Posted June 11, 2009 laptops are pretty much the golden pheasant here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members r05c03 Posted June 11, 2009 Members Share Posted June 11, 2009 and thanks for putting back the firewire on the Macbooks too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members methusalem Posted June 11, 2009 Members Share Posted June 11, 2009 and thanks for putting back the firewire on the Macbooks too. +1 now I dont have to shell out the cash for a 15". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pogo97 Posted June 11, 2009 Members Share Posted June 11, 2009 ... the golden pheasant ... unfamiliar with metaphor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Audacity Works Posted June 11, 2009 Members Share Posted June 11, 2009 and thanks for putting back the firewire on the Macbooks too.Yes, that's very cool, but they dumped the input jack on the 13" MBP. Why the hell would one need an SD card slot when a USB SD reader's four bucks (and SD cards will be obsolete in a year)? On the road, I sometimes don't bring my Apogee Duet and just want to make demos with the stock I/O and stock Core Audio driver. Logic works great (negligible latency, even with large Reaktor ensembles). Anyone using Quick Keys for building Logic (or any other app) macros? I'm looking for something to further streamline Logic, like a one-button "crossfade all selected regions by 8 ms", "crossfade all selected regions by 20 ms", etc. Can't avoid clicking for those, unless Quick Keys gets involved. I think. Any other ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members r05c03 Posted June 11, 2009 Members Share Posted June 11, 2009 On the road, I sometimes don't bring my Apogee Duet and just want to make demos with the stock I/O and stock Core Audio driver. Logic works great (negligible latency, even with large Reaktor ensembles). I thought that the Apogee Duet had firewire output. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Audacity Works Posted June 11, 2009 Members Share Posted June 11, 2009 I thought that the Apogee Duet had firewire output.It does, and it sounds amazing for the money. Sometimes I forget or prefer not to bring it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members r05c03 Posted June 11, 2009 Members Share Posted June 11, 2009 I was always interested in the Apogee stuff...never bought any because I needed more inputs, in general and could not spend the big bucks on an expanded Apogee system.. Now, now I need to get me an interface that I can use Volta with....yes, it is precious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members girevik Posted June 11, 2009 Members Share Posted June 11, 2009 Now, now I need to get me an interface that I can use Volta with....yes, it is precious. Any interface with DC-coupled outputs will do, including MOTU's own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members r05c03 Posted June 11, 2009 Members Share Posted June 11, 2009 Yes I know, but I bet a majority are not DC coupled. Not even all the MOTU interface have it. Sadly, my Presonus Firestudio does not. It has eight outputs which would have been great. MOTU does not have a comprehensive list of compatible devices, not even when called directly. If I get an interface that does have DC coupled outputs, it may as well be MOTU.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NuSkoolTone Posted June 11, 2009 Members Share Posted June 11, 2009 yet what you fail to recognize is how well the operating system is integrated with the hardware. No Douche bag, I just didn't feel the need to go there. Unless you're a moron (Ahem) you wouldn't build a "Clone" box to run apple if the hardware wasn't compatible. While we're at it and you're interested in pointing out obvious details, part of the reason that apple is so "Stable" is because there is NO variation to a very SMALL set of hardware so they can put all the "Driver R&D" into that set and no worry of surprises from a hardware perspective. I'm not a windwos fanboi, but it's a small miracle windows supports as much hardware as it does and works as well as it does. The point is, for all intents you could build an EXACT REPLICA of an apple with the appropriate PC parts save the dongle chip. It's been reported there are very simple bootloaders and emulators to emulate the dongle chip (Which is only used on boot I'd bet so no performance penalty) so as far as the OS is concerned the machines are the same. This leaves the difference to the software alone (OS, etc..). I thought this was OBVIOUS, but you failed to recognize that I suppose since you felt the need to "Correct" me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ElectricPuppy Posted June 11, 2009 Members Share Posted June 11, 2009 NuSkoolTone, restrain yourself, please. No need for insults. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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