Members rushtallica Posted December 23, 2005 Members Share Posted December 23, 2005 Originally posted by soc_monki but IMO, using a boost in front of an amp designed to have high gain (like a Recto or 5150) just kills the fact that you bought a high gain amp! ill agree, some people have gotten great tones from it, but it just seems rediculous to do it IMO. and i cant be bothered by more things to step on while im playing...guitar-cable-amp for me. i have a footswitch to go from clean to dirty and to switch on my chorus in the loop...and thats all i need. i used to have lots of pedals (Chorus, EQ, Delay/Reverb, Wah, footswitch) and i just got sick of stepping on tons of stuff...so i gave some of that stuff to friends, and just kept the chorus pedal. couldnt be happier. I understand what you're saying, but just to make sure some people understand why boosts are being used with high gain amp by a number of people doing so, it's not always to get more gain but rather: 1) to get more sustain 2) tighten up the sound 3) get a different tone, i.e. loving the tone of 5150's but finding yet a 3rd cool tone via the boost I'd rather put a cheap tubescreamer, sd-1, or an eq pedal set as a clean boost than spend thousands of dollars on an amp just to get a similar sound a much cheaper setup will achieve, and I've had my tubescreamer set just behind the footswitch of my Carvin I had so that I could press both the channel button and tubescreamer to go from total clean to total Slayer with one stomp. Very easy to do if the footswitch is easily stompable and allows a boost to be set just behind it or in some cases just in front of it. But if I had multiple thousands of $ to spend, I wouldn't mind having a number of amps out there, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members redrol Posted December 23, 2005 Members Share Posted December 23, 2005 Originally posted by rushtallica I understand what you're saying, but just to make sure some people understand why boosts are being used with high gain amp by a number of people doing so, it's not always to get more gain but rather: 1) to get more sustain 2) tighten up the sound 3) get a different tone, i.e. loving the tone of 5150's but finding yet a 3rd cool tone via the boost I'd rather put a cheap tubescreamer, sd-1, or an eq pedal set as a clean boost than spend thousands of dollars on an amp just to get a similar sound a much cheaper setup will achieve, and I've had my tubescreamer set just behind the footswitch of my Carvin I had so that I could press both the channel button and tubescreamer to go from total clean to total Slayer with one stomp. Very easy to do if the footswitch is easily stompable and allows a boost to be set just behind it or in some cases just in front of it. But if I had multiple thousands of $ to spend, I wouldn't mind having a number of amps out there, either. you can say that as many times as you want but these people just go 'HUR HUR BOOST IS MORE GANE RITE HUR HUR' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rushtallica Posted December 23, 2005 Members Share Posted December 23, 2005 Originally posted by redrol you can say that as many times as you want but these people just go 'HUR HUR BOOST IS MORE GANE RITE HUR HUR' But I can't blame people for wanting to have their setup exactly the way they want. I just don't have the $ to be that picky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soc_monki Posted December 23, 2005 Members Share Posted December 23, 2005 Originally posted by rushtallica I understand what you're saying, but just to make sure some people understand why boosts are being used with high gain amp by a number of people doing so, it's not always to get more gain but rather: 1) to get more sustain 2) tighten up the sound 3) get a different tone, i.e. loving the tone of 5150's but finding yet a 3rd cool tone via the boost I'd rather put a cheap tubescreamer, sd-1, or an eq pedal set as a clean boost than spend thousands of dollars on an amp just to get a similar sound a much cheaper setup will achieve, and I've had my tubescreamer set just behind the footswitch of my Carvin I had so that I could press both the channel button and tubescreamer to go from total clean to total Slayer with one stomp. Very easy to do if the footswitch is easily stompable and allows a boost to be set just behind it or in some cases just in front of it. But if I had multiple thousands of $ to spend, I wouldn't mind having a number of amps out there, either. true...they can get more sustain, but i havent ever had a problem...my Music Man sustains very well LOL better than my PRS (but it has a floating trem anyways). and ive never had a problem with the sound being too loose either...i just turn down the bass and or resonance a little and im good. and i have three tones in the 5150 anyways...clean, crunchy, and high gain LOL but i could put a boost with the crunch and get a different sound if i wanted...but im too lazy i suppose LOL and true, i dont worry too much about a cheaper amp getting boosted...i mean a 5150 isnt that much of an expensive amp, or boutique, or whatever...but i just get irked when people buy something like a Splawn (which sounds amazing as it is...) or a Diezel and then throw a pedal in front of it...to me thats just insane!!!! but as ive always said, tone is what you want it to be...and if it takes a Recto and a pedal to get your tone, so be it. its just not for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sonixx Posted December 23, 2005 Members Share Posted December 23, 2005 Originally posted by Zakko A very popular trend nowadays is to put a gain boost infront of already-insanely-saturated tones to 'tighten them up.' Personally, I believe that this is bull{censored} and anyone saying that a stock recto doesn't have enough gain should, indeed, pay more attention to their playing rather than their lack of gain. Yeah, if you think it's for more gain, you shouldn't use one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members typedeaF Posted December 23, 2005 Author Members Share Posted December 23, 2005 Is the standard cop out in the forum "work on your technique" when someone cant get a good tone from an amp? I was playing simple notey melodies, bending notes around, etc. Once I warm up, my technique is near flawless. Just because I dont have a record contract doesnt mean I am a total amature. Sure there are plenty of players better than me, but I am no slouch. When I play, people stop, listen and usually gather round me. I *really* hate to toot my own horn, but give the "technique" thing a rest. Who has some sound clips of Mesa and Marshall plugged straight in sounding hot? Give me some URL's. You guys are pretty bad at stereotyping and hurling insults. "If you want Dimebag tone, you dont want good tone", "Mesa has good tone, you just dont know what good tone is", "You need to work on your technique", "+1". WTF?!? Just becasue I ask for open opinion doesnt mean I think your opinion matters. Especially when its so blatently hostile. I appreciate the helpful comments, but the rest of you negative haters need to get a grip on your insecurities. Are you so afraid that if one person doesnt like your favorite amp then you might have been wrong about something? Anyway... Instead of trying the Mesa, I tried the JSX on both the XXX cabinet and the Krankenstine cabinet. The Krank had a little more body, but I am not convinced it was worth 2x the price. The construction was superb though, so maybe it is. Still havent heard it through a V30 cabinet. I wanted to try they VHT again too, but I was too tired from work. Tomorrow, if stores are open, I will try the Recto and Stiletto and some Mark series if they have one. Again, the only reason I havent bought the JSX yet is because I might find something better. I was happy with the gain on 6 but something in me tells me to crank it all the way to 10. I like tons of distortion, thats my taste. I used to own an ADA MP-2 and it was too distorted at 10, but the line6 isnt...not for my taste. I really want to hear the Powerball, Fireball and Ubershall now. The Bogner might be out of my price range tho. I am having to agree mostly with soc_monki now. If it takes this much work to get a tone I like, then why bother. Cheers,typedeaF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rushtallica Posted December 23, 2005 Members Share Posted December 23, 2005 Originally posted by soc_monki true...they can get more sustain, but i havent ever had a problem...my Music Man sustains very well LOL better than my PRS (but it has a floating trem anyways). and ive never had a problem with the sound being too loose either...i just turn down the bass and or resonance a little and im good. and i have three tones in the 5150 anyways...clean, crunchy, and high gain LOL but i could put a boost with the crunch and get a different sound if i wanted...but im too lazy i suppose LOL and true, i dont worry too much about a cheaper amp getting boosted...i mean a 5150 isnt that much of an expensive amp, or boutique, or whatever...but i just get irked when people buy something like a Splawn (which sounds amazing as it is...) or a Diezel and then throw a pedal in front of it...to me thats just insane!!!! but as ive always said, tone is what you want it to be...and if it takes a Recto and a pedal to get your tone, so be it. its just not for me I definitely can't blame someone for wanting the exact setup and sound they're after, whether straight from guitar to amp or with a huge pedalboard. I had a 5150 and didn't use a boost with it, either (though I didn't like it almost at all without using an eq pedal in the loop), but I don't think I ever tried it to see what it would sound like. I usually do use a boost on an amp I don't think gets enough distortion (such as the Carvin X100B), but I've heard good tones from high gain amps with a boost pedal, as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SteveVHT Posted December 23, 2005 Members Share Posted December 23, 2005 Originally posted by typedeaF Is the standard cop out in the forum "work on your technique" when someone cant get a good tone from an amp?I was playing simple notey melodies, bending notes around, etc. Once I warm up, my technique is near flawless. Just because I dont have a record contract doesnt mean I am a total amature. Sure there are plenty of players better than me, but I am no slouch. When I play, people stop, listen and usually gather round me. I *really* hate to toot my own horn, but give the "technique" thing a rest. Who has some sound clips of Mesa and Marshall plugged straight in sounding hot? Give me some URL's. You guys are pretty bad at stereotyping and hurling insults. "If you want Dimebag tone, you dont want good tone", "Mesa has good tone, you just dont know what good tone is", "You need to work on your technique", "+1". WTF?!? Just becasue I ask for open opinion doesnt mean I think your opinion matters. Especially when its so blatently hostile. I appreciate the helpful comments, but the rest of you negative haters need to get a grip on your insecurities. Are you so afraid that if one person doesnt like your favorite amp then you might have been wrong about something? Anyway...Instead of trying the Mesa, I tried the JSX on both the XXX cabinet and the Krankenstine cabinet. The Krank had a little more body, but I am not convinced it was worth 2x the price. The construction was superb though, so maybe it is. Still havent heard it through a V30 cabinet. I wanted to try they VHT again too, but I was too tired from work. Tomorrow, if stores are open, I will try the Recto and Stiletto and some Mark series if they have one. Again, the only reason I havent bought the JSX yet is because I might find something better. I was happy with the gain on 6 but something in me tells me to crank it all the way to 10. I like tons of distortion, thats my taste. I used to own an ADA MP-2 and it was too distorted at 10, but the line6 isnt...not for my taste. I really want to hear the Powerball, Fireball and Ubershall now. The Bogner might be out of my price range tho. I am having to agree mostly with soc_monki now. If it takes this much work to get a tone I like, then why bother. Cheers,typedeaF Better yet.....Post some clips of your "flawless technique" so we can better guide you to the right amp.Hearing an amp on line will do absolutely nothing for you. There are way too many variables that change the sound, from bad micing, bad eq'ing, etc....You sound like someone who needs either a rack or a modeler....End of thread unless you post some of you amazing chops for us...Thank you,Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members indespise Posted December 23, 2005 Members Share Posted December 23, 2005 If you know you like the Peaveys, why don't you just buy one of those? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 17 Tubes Posted December 23, 2005 Members Share Posted December 23, 2005 Originally posted by redrol Thats just pure crap, countless artists for the last 30 yeas have used boosts in one form or another. That statement is just bs. Hey there PAL...I said use whatever works for ya. I only gave my opinion...not the {censored}ing facts of rock and roll amp boosting. Did I *say* no one boosts their amps? No I didn't. Do they have a smilie with a New York wave? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 17 Tubes Posted December 24, 2005 Members Share Posted December 24, 2005 Originally posted by typedeaF Is the standard cop out in the forum "work on your technique" when someone cant get a good tone from an amp?You guys are pretty bad at stereotyping and hurling insults. "If you want Dimebag tone, you dont want good tone", "Mesa has good tone, you just dont know what good tone is", "You need to work on your technique", "+1". WTF?!? Just becasue I ask for open opinion doesnt mean I think your opinion matters. Especially when its so blatently hostile. I appreciate the helpful comments, but the rest of you negative haters need to get a grip on your insecurities. Are you so afraid that if one person doesnt like your favorite amp then you might have been wrong about something? Anyway..Cheers,typedeaF Then why are you taking it so personal? This is at least the second time you're getting bent out of shape... You're telling people that have dealt with this amp that it doesn't do what they know it can do? What do you expect? There's been enough advice on how to dial it for you to get started so what are you doing here? Haven't seen anyone HOSTILE (except redrol giving me the "bull{censored}" for no reason.) If you think THIS is hostile, wait to they REALLY do you. Can you say "fetal"? If you don't want or need the advice given...move on. Take what you can use and leave the rest. Don't be so defensive. And after all..they really ARE trying to help you. Often the truth hurts. Take it for what it is worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members toneking Posted December 24, 2005 Members Share Posted December 24, 2005 Hand the mother-{censored}er over thats how you (I) get great tone. No just look for the manuals download or copy them and take your axe into a store and crank the {censored}ER-UP:freak: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soc_monki Posted December 24, 2005 Members Share Posted December 24, 2005 Originally posted by typedeaF I am having to agree mostly with soc_monki now. If it takes this much work to get a tone I like, then why bother. Cheers, typedeaF well...i wouldnt say why bother. most of the time though we get so caught up trying to find "the" tone, that we just forget about why we started to play in the first place...TO GET CHICKS!!! LOL j/k...i started playing because i wanted to play... but when you start to get so anal about "tone" and thinking "man, i need to find THE amp" it gets out of control. i mean, ive had my 5150 since 96, and at times i thought "man, this isnt the tone i want..." and thats when i started adding pedals and doing all kinds of crap that i didnt need to...i finally got my head on straight, said "screw this!!!" and just unplugged everything, went straight into the amp, fiddled the knobs to where it sounded OK, and just didnt worry about it after that. sure, i like to work on my tone every now and then, but i can honestly say im happy with what ive got. id rather work on my playing than spend upmteen hours fiddling with the knobs of whatever amp i play. i usually turn the midrange up really high, bass enough to get some body, treble enough to cut, and the gain a little lower than "metal" LOL then i just play and dont think about "tone". i get more satisfaction playing my music man though this little Epiphone practice amp than i would fiddling with an amp with 15 million knobs on it... IMO your tone comes from your fingers and your soul...most of the greats sound nearly the same no matter what they use, because it is them playing...we are no different. get something that works for you, no matter what it is, and go with it, and dont worry about it too much. theres no point pulling your hair out about it...just play! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blargh Posted December 24, 2005 Members Share Posted December 24, 2005 I'm {censored}ing tired of people saying Mesas are hard to dial in, jesus, when I first tried the MKIV it took me about 2 minutes of playing with the switches to get the tone I want... Recto ain't much of a problem either, as long as its pushing a lot of watts. Also, you might be running it through a crap cab. Never underestimate the effect of the cab/speaker, they WILL make or break your tone. Of course, you might just hate the Recto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fishfartz Posted December 24, 2005 Members Share Posted December 24, 2005 Originally posted by 17 Tubes I am not going to cliam to be an expert, ESPECIALLY on Mesas.But I don't get why you would spend so much money on a GREAT amp...then decide to put a pedal in front for better tone/dynamics/whatever.Odd, huh? i dont know - there are alot of guitarists who love using an OD/boost in front of a tube amp. it adds to an already great sound. and its not always to add gain, i like cranking a tube amp where it sounds good and then hitting it with a boost - the OD pedal is set so the DRIVE knob is all the way down, but the Level/Volume is all the way up. im guessing youve never tried this? even with expensive amps it can sound great. i had a jcm800 for years (recently unloaded) as well as my share of 1/2 stacks and so-on, and in almost every situation where i wanted any gain (be it light crunch or heavy rock) a boost of some sort added to it and took nothing away, and if i can buy $100 pedal to make a $1000 amp sound even better - im game;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members typedeaF Posted December 24, 2005 Author Members Share Posted December 24, 2005 Tubes, you are asking me why I take it personal when I ask a question and get responses that say nothing but blatent insults to my personal taste in tone and my playing? Really? I have to explain that? What am I doing here? I am following the thread. I get e-mail notification on follow-ups. Its what you are supposed to do when you start a thread, least thats normal etiquette on most forums. SteveVHT, I dont know who you are, but you come across to me as thinking that you have some kind of suade over what I do here. You were helpful and non offensive up till a point. If I want to carry out this thread until I am blue in the face and talking to muself, then just watch me. If you, on the other hand, think this thread is dead, you have my permission to butt out. kthxbi. I really appreciate everyone posts that have been helpful, and I am sorry that I have to waste time and energy with posts such as this one. Cheers,typedeaF - the flawless and amazing (werd +1) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sonixx Posted December 24, 2005 Members Share Posted December 24, 2005 ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SteveVHT Posted December 24, 2005 Members Share Posted December 24, 2005 Originally posted by typedeaF SteveVHT, I dont know who you are, but you come across to me as thinking that you have some kind of suade over what I do here. You were helpful and non offensive up till a point. If I want to carry out this thread until I am blue in the face and talking to muself, then just watch me. If you, on the other hand, think this thread is dead, you have my permission to butt out. kthxbi. It's just that you are coming off as a douchbag....I own many amps including Mesa's Marshalls, VHT's, Fenders, THD, Rack gear etc.....I just find it really hard to beleive that people don't know how to turn knobs on amps.I've seen people that have bad ears try to dial in an amp, but that's a whole different issue.You are saying that you want the sounds of a hundred different guitarists out of a single amp. I responded to you very directly about this...Either get a rack setup or a modeler....Mesa's are just about as easy as it gets when dialing in a sound.Maybe you should try approaching the amp a different way....Turn your head away from the amp, and dial it in by ear. When you get the sound you want, you'll probably be shocked at the settings you use.Don't be a GC weenie and take the gain and put it on 10, bass on 10, mids on 0, and treble on ten, while being tuned to Z flat....There is just no way to get "tone" that way....Either way....post a few clips, you've got me interested in hearing you play...seriously..Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members '63-Strat Posted December 24, 2005 Members Share Posted December 24, 2005 Like SteveVHT, I'd love to hear a clip of your flawless technique Seriously... post one! Ok, ok I understand not liking the recto, but when you come on here and right away - with no posts, no clips, etc. - and start talking about how great you are, and that a recto can't cut it, but yet you play a flextone-insane-gain-on-10 type tone, it really does make you sound a little suspect, hence some people's skepticism, myself included. You may very well be a guitarist with flawless technique. But that much gain? If your technique is that great, why would you want to cover it up? I'm always interested in hearing great players' clips, lots to learn. BTW, I'm fairly sure you could record clips out of the headphone out of your flextone directly into your computuer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 17 Tubes Posted December 24, 2005 Members Share Posted December 24, 2005 Originally posted by typedeaF Tubes, you are asking me why I take it personal when I ask a question and get responses that say nothing but blatent insults to my personal taste in tone and my playing? Really? I have to explain that? What am I doing here? I am following the thread. I get e-mail notification on follow-ups. Its what you are supposed to do when you start a thread, least thats normal etiquette on most forums. Yes...you have to explain. Because you haven't yet. If people telling you your technique sucks, and you think it doesn't apply...forget it! Move on. There are worse things really. If you're fine with your playing, great! Actually, when people tell me I suck, I hit practice even harder, no matter how good I think I am or how right they are. Here might be MY contribution: I think you should stick to the preamps. I use a Vox Tonelab SE, which to me EXCELS at midgain kind of thing. It *WILL do higher gain no doubt. It's a more vintagey gain though....like an old Marshall witha boost pedal in front. I also use a Rocktron Voodu Valve...which is HIGH F'in GAIN!. Sick. It also has nice studio clean. And you know what? I wouldn't trade any amp for these two pre-amps. I just need the flexiblity. I know I can tweak a little bit and get something different. I know that no matter where I go, or which amp I chose, I ALWAYS have *MY* tone. And I need and love my effects. Tell me I can't have a lead delay with the volume pedal and I'll rip your face off. Different amps do effect the pedals differently. I tried the Tonelab into a Pitbull once...HOLY SHEET!. Very awesome tone....It was so sweet. Other amps like the Peavy Classic 50/50 poweramp left it flat (other people like the 50/50). So...maybe go back to the preamps? The Voodu is KILLER. Sorry I can't tell you about the Mesa. I want a MArk IV pretty bad. And I used to have TU BE's Studio.22. That's my Mesa Experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Major Third Posted December 24, 2005 Members Share Posted December 24, 2005 Originally posted by blargh I'm {censored}ing tired of people saying Mesas are hard to dial in, jesus, when I first tried the MKIV it took me about 2 minutes of playing with the switches to get the tone I want... Recto ain't much of a problem either, as long as its pushing a lot of watts.Also, you might be running it through a crap cab. Never underestimate the effect of the cab/speaker, they WILL make or break your tone.Of course, you might just hate the Recto. +1I just learned my lesson regarding this. I was ready to give up on my Recto, then I plugged it into a cab with V30's... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members poida Posted December 24, 2005 Members Share Posted December 24, 2005 Stop playing it in your beroom with them master on 0.5/10 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members typedeaF Posted December 24, 2005 Author Members Share Posted December 24, 2005 I am no Rusty Cooley or Jason Becker. Never said I was. I said "my technique is nearly flawless" and that people compliment my playing all the time. The nearly flawless part is referring to sloppy versus clean, not the spin that you seem to be putting on it that I am the best guitarist since Tony Three Finger Iommi (actually i dont like tony, that was sarcasm) But sure, if you are just dying to hear my tone, give me a place to publish my crap. I will be more than happy to throw some stuff out there. I think that you are simply going to make fun of my tone like one of the last posters said. I have a strange taste in tone. Perhaps I should have started with posting something of my current tone and what I like and dont like about it. typedeaF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Charvel1975 Posted December 24, 2005 Members Share Posted December 24, 2005 I've had my 95 MESA Dual Rectifier Trem-O-Verb 2x12 combo since new and am still running the stock origianal tubes which I need to find better tubes to re-tube it with(any suggestions anyone?) and maybe biased as it's never been biased. I like the sound of it thru any of my 4x12 cabs whether it's my Marshall 1960A or my newer Randall straight front angled baffle 4x12 with the Celestion 70/80 Red Label speakers but by itself it sounds thin. My style is in the vein of Shadows Fall, Slayer, Disturbed, Crossfade, etc. I have a Line 6 Flextone 2 head that I've used live for most of my bands shows but the one we got coming up New Years Eve I'm using my MESA combo and either my Marshall or Randall cab, I just hope the tubes hold out until after the show but again, if anyone has any suggestions on really good tubes and any company that sells them online or here in Ohio before new years eve I want to get some, thanks!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SteveVHT Posted December 24, 2005 Members Share Posted December 24, 2005 Originally posted by typedeaF I am no Rusty Cooley or Jason Becker. Never said I was. I said "my technique is nearly flawless" and that people compliment my playing all the time. The nearly flawless part is referring to sloppy versus clean, not the spin that you seem to be putting on it that I am the best guitarist since Tony Three Finger Iommi (actually i dont like tony, that was sarcasm) But sure, if you are just dying to hear my tone, give me a place to publish my crap. I will be more than happy to throw some stuff out there. I think that you are simply going to make fun of my tone like one of the last posters said. I have a strange taste in tone. Perhaps I should have started with posting something of my current tone and what I like and dont like about it. typedeaF LOLRusty Cooley....That guy is one big joke and should not be used in the same sentence as Jason Becker....I think I know where you're coming from now....LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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