Members guitar shmoe Posted July 28, 2006 Members Share Posted July 28, 2006 Originally posted by Hawkeye17 I'm sorry but anyone who has really been paying attention the last 5 years and thinks that Bush is anything but incompetent is either blind or stupid. Historians are already talking about Bush in terms of a disaster and he has 2 years left(god help us). People in his own party are avoiding him like he's got Bird Flu even in an election year. He also has people in his own party ready to sue him for violating the Constitution he swore to protect. Bush is a disgrace and the sooner the 30%'s realize it, the better off we'll all be. Most of these 'Republicans' avoid George Bush (in an election year) because he is unpopular with the public (low approval rating) not because of political differences. His approval rating is low because chuckle-heads actually believe the rhetoric from liberal biased whacked-out left-wing media sources (shameful, really)...When the left-wing media gets caught 'exaggerating' their reporting on Bush Administration (happens all day, every day and most frequently....PAY ATTENTION HERE!) nobody cries foul...there is no inquisition, there is no public outrage...people just go on as if what was reported is true...Congratulations! you are part of the 'opiated masses'!...and GOOD NEWS!!!! George Clooney has a new book coming out and will be running for President soon!!!....hahahahahahahahahaha..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 Originally posted by FWAxeIbanez And to call the war in Iraq a holy war makes my head hurt... the only ones who brought religion into this were the ones in the planes... We are in Iraq because Hussein was toying with us during weapons inspections and wasn't cooperating in finding Bin Laden... These left wing nuts are lucky that most Americans have a bad memory, because these days everyone thinks we are fighting because "they" slammed the planes into the twin towers, and they have ceased to remember who "they" is exactly. I remember well all the chances we've given Hussein since the last war, and I remember that a lot happened between 9/11 and our actual attack... The war in Iraq was waged on false pretenses--it has nothing to with terrorism, or WDM's, or religious affiliations. In December of 2001, Saddam Hussein announced that Iraq would no longer allow their oil to be purchased in US dollars. The policy was perceived by the Bush adminstration as an effort to undermine the US economy, and that's why we went in--to secure the Iraqi oil fields and set up a puppet government to insure that the 15% of US oil purchased from Iraq can be bought with US dollars. The problem is the whole plan has backfired, and has now all but guaranteed that the oil-producing nations will eventually start trading in Euros instead of dollars. So in short order, Americans are {censored}ed and we have Bush to thank for it. Our only chance of avoiding a major economic decline is to dramatically decrease our usage of oil and separate ourselves from oil-based economies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitar shmoe Posted July 28, 2006 Members Share Posted July 28, 2006 Originally posted by la0tsu Let me reiterate: Your assumption that you need to have access to top security intel in order to have enough information to criticize is 100%, unadulterated, pure, plain and simple BULL {censored}. Don't you see that the natural upshot of this is that citizens do not have the knowledge necessary to select our own leaders? Listen, mister. Your position undermines democracy, and is an insult to the millions who have given their lives, livelihoods, time, and knowledge to see that, in the words of a far better man than myself, "government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth." It is a thumb in the eye of everything our nation stands for. I'll say it, yet once again! maybe at some point this will happen... .....You only have peripheral information, which is mostly wretched out of context (at the media level) and repackaged to make the present Administration look incompetent (both parties Reps and Dems play this game..) The Dems have the HUGE upper hand here because their 'buddies' control most of the media (ie: 90% of news reporters vote Dem...). If you want to sit back and be massaged by biased/manipulated information and bogus/partial intel and formulate CONCLUSIONS! you are therefore a 'dupe'...If you pursue the info trail (as you say you have) you cut through the dense jungle of misinformation only to arrive at a sealed folder labeled 'TOP SECRET' authorized clearance only....The people that I know that have access to this type of information (and, as mentioned, I have a few friends that do in a most limited capacity...) instantly recognize that it isn't in accordance with the retarted so called 'info' the media has...and, any info that the media does have is packaged in such a way as to imply the conclusions that they want you to have. So, sit back and be an arm chair critic! you are wasting yours, mine and our country's time and being destructive all at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitar shmoe Posted July 28, 2006 Members Share Posted July 28, 2006 Originally posted by GuitslingerTim The war in Iraq was waged on false pretenses--it has nothing to with terrorism, or WDM's, or religious affiliations. In December of 2001, Saddam Hussein announced that Iraq would no longer allow their oil to be purchased in US dollars. The policy was perceived by the Bush adminstration as an effort to undermine the US economy, and that's why we went in--to secure the Iraqi oil fields and set up a puppet government to insure that the 15% of US oil purchased from Iraq can be bought with US dollars. The problem is the whole plan has backfired, and has now all but guaranteed that the oil-producing nations will eventually start trading in Euros instead of dollars. So in short order, Americans are {censored}ed and we have Bush to thank for it. Our only chance of avoiding a major economic decline is to dramatically decrease our usage of oil and separate ourselves from oil-based economies. Did you get this out of Al Gore's book or George Clooney's???? Michael Moore is preparing a 'Documentary' on this as we speak! hahahahaha.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Craggin Posted July 28, 2006 Members Share Posted July 28, 2006 Guitar Shmoe, serious question...do you feel news sources such as Fox or other more conservative venues are more informed and accurate than liberal news sources? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitar shmoe Posted July 28, 2006 Members Share Posted July 28, 2006 Originally posted by Craggin Guitar Shmoe, serious question...do you feel news sources such as Fox or other more conservative venues are more informed and accurate than liberal news sources? Even Fox news 'fair and balanced' has limited info to supply....I cannot take that very limited amount of intel and formulate a concrete CONCLUSION. Whether it is slanted from the left or slanted from the right is is still LIMITED and to some degree biased. why do you think courtrooms limit public/media access to the trials of alleged criminals? They don't want the person tried in the arena of public opinion....why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members la0tsu Posted July 28, 2006 Members Share Posted July 28, 2006 Originally posted by guitar shmoe I'll say it, yet once again! maybe at some point this will happen... ..... You only have peripheral information, which is mostly wretched out of context (at the media level) and repackaged to make the present Administration look incompetent (both parties Reps and Dems play this game..) The Dems have the HUGE upper hand here because their 'buddies' control most of the media (ie: 90% of news reporters vote Dem...). If you want to sit back and be massaged by biased/manipulated information and bogus/partial intel and formulate CONCLUSIONS! you are therefore a 'dupe'...If you pursue the info trail (as you say you have) you cut through the dense jungle of misinformation only to arrive at a sealed folder labeled 'TOP SECRET' authorized clearance only....The people that I know that have access to this type of information (and, as mentioned, I have a few friends that do in a most limited capacity...) instantly recognize that it isn't in accordance with the retarted so called 'info' the media has...and, any info that the media does have is packaged in such a way as to imply the conclusions that they want you to have. So, sit back and be an arm chair critic! you are wasting yours, mine and our country's time and being destructive all at the same time. You're right. {censored} democracy. No one without access to top secret information knows anything, or has any insight into how government should run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ToneGrail Posted July 28, 2006 Members Share Posted July 28, 2006 Originally posted by FWAxeIbanez I didn't see the back of it... how {censored}ing retarded, I'm pretty sure that IS the shirt... well, perfect circle are the new Green Day I guess, hope thier happy being whackos Maybe they should try to sell those shirts where that caption actually rings true...in Iran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitar shmoe Posted July 28, 2006 Members Share Posted July 28, 2006 Originally posted by la0tsu You're right. {censored} democracy. No one without access to top secret information knows anything, or has any insight into how government should run. Let's put it this way:if our government makes National Security decisions at the tabloid level where every Tom, Dick and Mary (as well as our ENEMIES!!!!!!) have ample access to ALL intel, THEN, yes, you are right! we are totally SCREWED! PS....(see Congress's involvement in military decision making in VietNam for a somewhat limited example of this..). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Craggin Posted July 28, 2006 Members Share Posted July 28, 2006 Originally posted by guitar shmoe Even Fox news 'fair and balanced' has limited info to supply....I cannot take that very limited amount of intel and formulate a concrete CONCLUSION. Whether it is slanted from the left or slanted from the right is is still LIMITED and to some degree biased. No arguments from me on that point. As far as intel, a lot more gets "leaked" than we're admitting in this thread. (Mainly from inside sources that don't agree with their administration's assessement and course of action...IMO, of course.) I'd say Americans get a lot more intel and information than you're giving us credit for. Its obvious where your political ideals are...from my perspective (and I try to remain as objective as possible), this particular administration has bumbled and erred more than they should have. For the record (as I stated in an earlier post), I voted for W in one of his bids for president (I vote in every election, local, national, etc.)...but as an American I just can't support him or the choices he's made. The ironic part, is that if I were still in the service, I'd follow whatever order he gave me...I don't have to like it, but I would still follow it. Same with Billy Clinton...I voted for him in one election, but not both. If we want unbiased news...IMO, we have to read every source there is and formulate our own opinions. Again, I'll post this for anyone who didn't see it in an earlier post: Newspapers of the World on the Internet My views about our "benevolence" changed a tad over the years, both from traveling abroad and obtaining sources of information outside our borders. Granted, we may not always be the most popular nation in the world...but rather simply dismiss that sentiment as "ahh, the rest of the world is just jealous, they all wish they were Americans"...Perhaps there is more substance to the overwhelming unpopularity to our foreign policy. In days gone by, when the US sneezed, the rest of the world caught a cold...that isn't the case anymore and to think that it is would be pure hubris (IMO). In the future, we really need to learn to play to a different set of rules than we're presently accustom to...especially when dealing with the Middle East. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members draelyc Posted July 28, 2006 Members Share Posted July 28, 2006 Originally posted by guitar shmoe I'm all growed-up I'm 46. I am not a conspiracy theorist, deal in facts only (note that facts DO NOT = perception)... and I appreciate the attempt to 'reverse the burden of proof' onto me and 'attempt' to put me on the defensive (hehe...nice try!) I know tactics of argumentation and am aware of most of the liberal tricks you emply...(I'm sure you catch most in these traps...) America is accountable to it's citizens only. Not world opinion or bastardized left-wing perception games. We have leadership in place to address national security...we should support the good being done to protect us citizens. Can it be done better? You and I do not have access to pertinent information/intel that would fuel our ability to come to any conclusions here (only speculation...)...so why do you consistently 'speculate' the perception of negativity???? and not attempt to acknowledge the good???? If you had access to the full disclosure of intel and used the data to inform me of your conclusions I would totally respect your opinion. (at least understand it...) otherwise: your just another left-wing cry baby complainer self-righteously and hypocritically judging American leadership... Just repeating the same points I've already countered, I see. That's an interesting trick you "emply" ... let me know if it actually works on anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members draelyc Posted July 28, 2006 Members Share Posted July 28, 2006 Originally posted by guitar shmoe Most of these 'Republicans' avoid George Bush (in an election year) because he is unpopular with the public (low approval rating) not because of political differences. His approval rating is low because chuckle-heads actually believe the rhetoric from liberal biased whacked-out left-wing media sources (shameful, really)...When the left-wing media gets caught 'exaggerating' their reporting on Bush Administration (happens all day, every day and most frequently....PAY ATTENTION HERE!) nobody cries foul...there is no inquisition, there is no public outrage...people just go on as if what was reported is true...Congratulations! you are part of the 'opiated masses'!...and GOOD NEWS!!!! George Clooney has a new book coming out and will be running for President soon!!!....hahahahahahahahahaha..... Here's how you're coming across, man: Picture yourself as a Roman cop at the crucifixion of Christ -- you'd be standing in front of the crowd, your back to the Cross, shouting "Nothing to see here! It's just a bunch of filthy conspiracy-lies!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members draelyc Posted July 28, 2006 Members Share Posted July 28, 2006 Originally posted by guitar shmoe I'll say it, yet once again! maybe at some point this will happen... ..... You only have peripheral information, which is mostly wretched out of context (at the media level) and repackaged to make the present Administration look incompetent (both parties Reps and Dems play this game..) The Dems have the HUGE upper hand here because their 'buddies' control most of the media (ie: 90% of news reporters vote Dem...). If you want to sit back and be massaged by biased/manipulated information and bogus/partial intel and formulate CONCLUSIONS! you are therefore a 'dupe'...If you pursue the info trail (as you say you have) you cut through the dense jungle of misinformation only to arrive at a sealed folder labeled 'TOP SECRET' authorized clearance only....The people that I know that have access to this type of information (and, as mentioned, I have a few friends that do in a most limited capacity...) instantly recognize that it isn't in accordance with the retarted so called 'info' the media has...and, any info that the media does have is packaged in such a way as to imply the conclusions that they want you to have. So, sit back and be an arm chair critic! you are wasting yours, mine and our country's time and being destructive all at the same time. Your ass has already been handed to you by at least three different people on this very point. Keep on repeating it, if you like, but it's pretty clear you're running on fumes (and they're not petroleum fumes, either! ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members draelyc Posted July 28, 2006 Members Share Posted July 28, 2006 Originally posted by guitar shmoe Let's put it this way:if our government makes National Security decisions at the tabloid level where every Tom, Dick and Mary (as well as our ENEMIES!!!!!!) have ample access to ALL intel, THEN, yes, you are right! we are totally SCREWED! PS....(see Congress's involvement in military decision making in VietNam for a somewhat limited example of this..). So, what you're really saying is "{censored} accountability!"? Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitar shmoe Posted July 28, 2006 Members Share Posted July 28, 2006 Originally posted by draelyc Here's how you're coming across, man: Picture yourself as a Roman cop at the crucifixion of Christ -- you'd be standing in front of the crowd, your back to the Cross, shouting "Nothing to see here! It's just a bunch of filthy conspiracy-lies!" Actually, I've humbled myself and knelt before the cross of Jesus in complete submission...I'm just saying: bring your thinking caps with you when you sit before the evening news....if I believe all the rhetoric there I would have to believe that George Bush is a lying, deceptive, blithering idiot that can't even tie his own shoes let alone get dressed in the morning....c'mon,...I'm being sold something here...the guy is getting absolutely SLAMMED...personal attacks rooted in hatred, liberal ideology and emotion (not facts).I hate 'spin doctors' whether it is from the left or the right...mis-information is simply aimed at deceiving people to arouse an emotional response (which, is exactly what is happenning here...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Craggin Posted July 28, 2006 Members Share Posted July 28, 2006 Originally posted by guitar shmoe ...personal attacks rooted in hatred, liberal ideology and emotion (not facts). "Facts" according to whom? You? Do you have facts or are you just as guilty of conjecture as the liberal press? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members la0tsu Posted July 28, 2006 Members Share Posted July 28, 2006 Originally posted by guitar shmoe Let's put it this way:if our government makes National Security decisions at the tabloid level where every Tom, Dick and Mary (as well as our ENEMIES!!!!!!) have ample access to ALL intel, THEN, yes, you are right! we are totally SCREWED! PS....(see Congress's involvement in military decision making in VietNam for a somewhat limited example of this..). I'm sorry, but I'm not convinced. You should read The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich some time. That will give you a clearer picture of what the outcome of your philosophy is. Fortunately, you are in a tiny minority on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitar shmoe Posted July 28, 2006 Members Share Posted July 28, 2006 Originally posted by draelyc So, what you're really saying is "{censored} accountability!"? Interesting. American Military/National Security decisions are top secret.... Ultimately accountable to the American people (come VOTE day...) not accountable to tabloid 'mob mentality' and rush to judgment reasoning based on biased evening news reports aimed at arousing an emotional response (again, as in what I can see here...) so that they can put into political power one of their ideologs (ie: Liberal Democrat). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members draelyc Posted July 28, 2006 Members Share Posted July 28, 2006 Originally posted by guitar shmoe Actually, I've humbled myself and knelt before the cross of Jesus in complete submission... While there, did you learn the concept of analogy? How about metaphor?Sigh. I wasn't saying anything at all about your religious convictions.... oh, nevermind. I'm just saying: bring your thinking caps with you when you sit before the evening news....Why not do the same thing when you sit before this government when it gives a press conference or interview? if I believe all the rhetoric there I would have to believe that George Bush is a lying, deceptive, blithering idiot that can't even tie his own shoes let alone get dressed in the morning...If the untied shoe fits, well...? .c'mon,...I'm being sold something here...the guy is getting absolutely SLAMMED..And why do you think that is? .personal attacks rooted in hatred, liberal ideology and emotion (not facts).Now *you* have "super secret top level intel" that qualifies you to proclaim "facts"? Sorry, not buyin' it.Have you never even hypothetically entertained the *possibility* that Bush might be getting slammed because of his own galactic blunders, and not because the people slamming him are doing so out of personal hatred?Better yet, have you ever bothered to *wonder* WHY so many American do hate him?Have you ever bothered to think about ... ANYTHING? I hate 'spin doctors' whether it is from the left or the right...Based solely on your posts here, I have real trouble believing this statement, coming from you. mis-information is simply aimed at deceiving people to arouse an emotional response (which, is exactly what is happenning here...) Or it could be that Bush's betrayal of this nation and her vital interests is what's causing such an emotional response... Look, Scoob -- a clue! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members draelyc Posted July 28, 2006 Members Share Posted July 28, 2006 Originally posted by guitar shmoe American Military/National Security decisions are top secret.... Ultimately accountable to the American people (come VOTE day...) not accountable to tabloid 'mob mentality' and rush to judgment reasoning based on biased evening news reports aimed at arousing an emotional response (again, as in what I can see here...) so that they can put into political power one of their ideologs (ie: Liberal Democrat). Man, you LOVE you some contradiction, don'tcha? How can those decisions be accountable to the people come "vote" day [sic] IF THOSE DECISIONS ARE TOP SECRET? Better yet, if such decisions are top secret -- WHY DID BUSH BUILD HIS ENTIRE BID FOR REELECTION ON THEM?!?!?!?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitar shmoe Posted July 28, 2006 Members Share Posted July 28, 2006 Originally posted by la0tsu I'm sorry, but I'm not convinced. You should read The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich some time. That will give you a clearer picture of what the outcome of your philosophy is. Fortunately, you are in a tiny minority on this. Actually, I have read the ENTIRE BOOK! 'The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich'...a few times, actually...thanks for asking! I am in accordance with the current experts (CIA, NSA etc...) and recognize the difficulties in running a war on terror with a bunch of 'left-leaning' micro-managers foaming at the mouth based on very limited biased media reports...which, BTW, is EXACTLY what Joseph Goebbels did to message the masses during the 3rd Reich. A bunch of Hagelian dupes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitar shmoe Posted July 28, 2006 Members Share Posted July 28, 2006 Originally posted by Craggin "Facts" according to whom? You? Do you have facts or are you just as guilty of conjecture as the liberal press? facts are facts...we don't have access to the pertinent facts to hold this Administration accountable cause we aren't sure of the objectives and the desired results yet. the sad thing: you guys all think you are smarter than the current Administration. this is nothing short of a laugh.....though it is sad... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members draelyc Posted July 28, 2006 Members Share Posted July 28, 2006 Originally posted by guitar shmoe Actually, I have read the ENTIRE BOOK! 'The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich'...a few times, actually...thanks for asking! I am in accordance with the current experts (CIA, NSA etc...) and recognize the difficulties in running a war on terror No, the "difficulty" is that you cling to the false belief that there can even be such a thing as a "war on terror."http://www.counterpunch.org/christison1.html with a bunch of 'left-leaning' micro-managers foaming at the mouth based on very limited biased media reports...which, BTW, is EXACTLY what Joseph Goebbels did to message the masses during the 3rd Reich. A bunch of Hagelian dupes! Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but it sounds like you're bitching because the Bush administration is suffering from the same obstacles that the Hitler administration suffered from -- namely the resistance of intelligent people to the administration's bull{censored}... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitar shmoe Posted July 28, 2006 Members Share Posted July 28, 2006 Originally posted by draelyc Here's how you're coming across, man: Picture yourself as a Roman cop at the crucifixion of Christ -- you'd be standing in front of the crowd, your back to the Cross, shouting "Nothing to see here! It's just a bunch of filthy conspiracy-lies!" wasn't Jesus crucified because a group of religious factions whipped-up a crowd of dupes by falsifying information and manipulated govt. officials (Roman) in order to get a desired result (Jesus DEAD!)???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitar shmoe Posted July 28, 2006 Members Share Posted July 28, 2006 Originally posted by draelyc No, the "difficulty" is that you cling to the false belief that there can even be such a thing as a "war on terror." http://www.counterpunch.org/christison1.htmlMaybe I'm reading this wrong, but it sounds like you're bitching because the Bush administration is suffering from the same obstacles that the Hitler administration suffered from -- namely the resistance of intelligent people to the administration's bull{censored}... you have a skewed understanding of current affairs and historical events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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