Members Craggin Posted September 12, 2006 Members Share Posted September 12, 2006 Originally posted by fancynapkin ...I mean, it makes you wonder why no one in power takes the anti-war crowd seriously. 13 million people have protested around the world against the war, yet they cant seem to change anything. Either we really are being run by facists, or maybe our methods of influencing the government should be through more reasonable ways, without the common socialist, defeatist, anti-capitalist taint, which has seemingly usurped these movements. It could also mean that this whole thing was caused by "the perfect storm"...a series of events unfolding in sequence allowing this to happen. I'm as against the war in Iraq as anyone...but I certainly don't support us just packing up and leaving right now. (But for the record, I didn't support us going in from the beginning.) That kind of pisses me off, I didn't want us to go in, but now I know we can't pull out. President Bush lost me when he declared "War on Terror", as I knew he declared war on ghosts, and our conventional military aren't ghost busters. In the end, I do what I can...I try to stay informed, and I vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Def_Pearl_Pilot Posted September 12, 2006 Members Share Posted September 12, 2006 Originally posted by fancynapkin His whole rant seems pretty undeveloped, for all the failures this administration encountered, he criticizes them for not putting up a memorial and for having a mini-series which he says: "possibly financed by -- the most radical and cold of domestic political Machiavellis,"I mean, it makes you wonder why no one in power takes the anti-war crowd seriously. 13 million people have protested around the world against the war, yet they cant seem to change anything. Either we really are being run by facists, or maybe our methods of influencing the government should be through more reasonable ways, without the common socialist, defeatist, anti-capitalist taint, which has seemingly usurped these movements. Are you serious? When has Bush EVER stated that he has made a mistake? When it comes to the war, it's always stay the course! The only way things are going to change is when he's out of office. I do agree that Olberman shouldn't be blaming Bush for not having anything at ground zero. It's really the fault of the contractors, etc. that can't agree on what to put there. I do agree that rebuilding would be a big {censored} you to terrorism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Craggin Posted September 12, 2006 Members Share Posted September 12, 2006 Originally posted by PlayboyChris And who's watching the watchers of the government? And then who's watching the watchers of the watchers of the government?As you can see, you can blow smoke about that forever. Yep, and in my opinion, we're watching the government. Time has a way of bringing out the truth in everything...maybe our system isn't perfect, but it does have a way of self-correcting flaws. (Albeit not always in a timely fashion.) Eventually the pendulum swings the other way and evens things out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Def_Pearl_Pilot Posted September 12, 2006 Members Share Posted September 12, 2006 Originally posted by PlayboyChris And who's watching the watchers of the government? And then who's watching the watchers of the watchers of the government?As you can see, you can blow smoke about that forever. To answer your question, the citizens watch the government. They should be apalled by what's happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members PlayboyChris Posted September 12, 2006 Members Share Posted September 12, 2006 Originally posted by Def_Pearl_Pilot To answer your question, the citizens watch the government. They should be apalled by what's happened. 70 people allegedly having their lives disrupted by the Patriot Act is hardly an apalling number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Def_Pearl_Pilot Posted September 12, 2006 Members Share Posted September 12, 2006 Originally posted by PlayboyChris 70 people allegedly having their lives disrupted by the Patriot Act is hardly an apalling number. Hey, that's where I disagree. But most people usually don't care about something unless it affects them(e.g. cancer, affirmative action, terrorism, etc) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Craggin Posted September 12, 2006 Members Share Posted September 12, 2006 Originally posted by PlayboyChris 70 people allegedly having their lives disrupted by the Patriot Act is hardly an apalling number. It's more than 70, those individuals were just one example. Regardless, I would agree that the actual number of people who've had their lives disrupted is probably statistically insignificant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members PlayboyChris Posted September 12, 2006 Members Share Posted September 12, 2006 Originally posted by Def_Pearl_Pilot Hey, that's where I disagree. But most people usually don't care about something unless it affects them(e.g. cancer, affirmative action, terrorism, etc) There's a difference between caring and putting things into perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Def_Pearl_Pilot Posted September 12, 2006 Members Share Posted September 12, 2006 Originally posted by PlayboyChris There's a difference between caring and putting things into perspective. Yeah, I guess my bass player gave me some perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members STEEL KAGE Posted September 12, 2006 Members Share Posted September 12, 2006 Originally posted by Def_Pearl_Pilot That's the whole point bro. Who's watching the government? I don't care what party is in office. I want somebody watching them. But I'm certainly more concerned about the Bush Administration. They've been caught in so many lies(that are far more serious then lying about a blowjob) that I can't stand the thought of them having so much power.Ben Franklin:They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security There are so many things out there that need oversight Andrew, the PA is just tone of them. Please dont tell me that Clintons only lie was about a Blowjob either, thats ignorant. Bush is an idiot, youll get no argument from me on that. I cant wait for him and this administration to hit the bricks.... Im familiar with the Ben Franklin statement; As far as Im concerned , I havent given up a thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members STEEL KAGE Posted September 12, 2006 Members Share Posted September 12, 2006 Originally posted by Craggin Must be some covert conspiracy against us blue eyed degos. Im a brown eyed daego but they still want to give me the works...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members PlayboyChris Posted September 12, 2006 Members Share Posted September 12, 2006 Originally posted by Def_Pearl_Pilot Yeah, I guess my bass player gave me some perspective. So you care about something mainly because it affects you personally. Some would call that a bias. Which is fine, we all have them, but it skews your ability to see the big picture. Seventy people out of the billions of human beings in the world is negligible by anyone's estimation. Your bass player is here in America, rocking out and smoking herb. How bad could it be for him? And if it really is that bad, maybe he should put down the bass and the bong and dedicate himself to changing things. If he's not willing to do that, he doesn't want it bad enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ThomasD Posted September 12, 2006 Members Share Posted September 12, 2006 Originally posted by STEEL KAGE All brokerage firms require a licensce now Erik...I wont deny that there is a very real danger of abuse where the PA is concerned; Someone needs to watch the watchers./B] That's my big problem with alot of the recent criticism aimed at the Patriot Act and the current administration. Much of what is 'bad' is just pre-existing law or policy that has just been re-grouped under Homeland Security. It's not like the government hasn't been doing much of the same for years and years. Now all of a sudden it is a problem? That smacks of partisan politics and nothing else. The IRS knows just about everything about you and does anybody remember Echelon from back in the Clinton days? Again, nothing new under the sun. Either that or it's just unsubstantiated allegations - give me real names, and/or real news reports from legitimate sources - especially the stuff about illegal detentions and such. As far as the real stuff I didn't like it then, I don't like it now (especially the IRS - where you are guilty until proven innocent), but at least some of it seems better justified given that it is apparent there are people who's main goal in life is to kill as many of us as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Def_Pearl_Pilot Posted September 12, 2006 Members Share Posted September 12, 2006 Originally posted by STEEL KAGE There are so many things out there that need oversight Andrew, the PA is just tone of them. Please dont tell me that Clintons only lie was about a Blowjob either, thats ignorant. Bush is an idiot, youll get no argument from me on that. I cant wait for him and this administration to hit the bricks....Im familiar with the Ben Franklin statement; As far as Im concerned , I havent given up a thing. Yeah, but I'd say it's one that needs it the most. And, of course Clinton's lied and so has every other president. While I've heard the alleged deaths revolving around Clinton, it doesn't compare to the almost 3000 deaths in the military. The thing that angers me the most about 9/11 is the fact that OBL was the guy that did it but he's no longer worth chasing after?!?!? That is the biggest crock of {censored} I've ever heard. The PA may not have personally impacted me or you but that doesn't mean that it's right. That's the last I'll say about it. Can't wait to hang tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ulank Posted September 12, 2006 Members Share Posted September 12, 2006 Originally posted by jshaft37 have you done any international travelling? every airport i've been to outside the US (6 in europe) has been more relaxed than any i've been to in the US. Since when did inconvenience = taking away people's freedoms?In any case, I don't agree with the Patriot Act in principle, but the gov't hasn't done anything different to me than they were doing 5+ years ago. I'll check out the vid later at home...I don't usually like what KO has to say, so it'll be interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members brian62275 Posted September 12, 2006 Members Share Posted September 12, 2006 Wes....why are you trolling in the amp forum??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Def_Pearl_Pilot Posted September 12, 2006 Members Share Posted September 12, 2006 Originally posted by STEEL KAGE There are so many things out there that need oversight Andrew, the PA is just tone of them. Please dont tell me that Clintons only lie was about a Blowjob either, thats ignorant. Bush is an idiot, youll get no argument from me on that. I cant wait for him and this administration to hit the bricks....Im familiar with the Ben Franklin statement; As far as Im concerned , I havent given up a thing. Yeah, but I'd say it's one that needs it the most. And, of course Clinton's lied and so has every other president. While I've heard the alleged deaths revolving around Clinton, it doesn't compare to the almost 3000 deaths in the military. The thing that angers me the most about 9/11 is the fact that OBL was the guy that did it but he's no longer worth chasing after?!?!? That is the biggest crock of {censored} I've ever heard. The PA may not have personally impacted me or you but that doesn't mean that it's right. That's the last I'll say about it. Can't wait to hang tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members amiller Posted September 12, 2006 Members Share Posted September 12, 2006 Originally posted by STEEL KAGE I voted for him 2x and Im pissed. Give me a friggin choice already!!! I gave him a second chance to do the right thing and he screwed the pooch IMO I want a GD choice!!!! :mad: I also have to say that its hard to disagree with the video.... Exactly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dark Angel Posted September 12, 2006 Members Share Posted September 12, 2006 Originally posted by STEEL KAGE Im dead serious Chris, I want to know what freedoms and liberties we have had stripped from us... Right to privacy. Protection from unreasonable search and siezure. Though it predates 9-11, our right to travel anonymously was stripped. Now it requires photo ID. To make it worse, we are now going to retinal passports. The feds have been allowed to demand data from Google regarding your searches. The feds have been given much broader wire-tapping abilities. Our suitcases are opened and subject to theft when we travel. Wonder how many women travel with dildos nowadays? I cannot accompany my wife to the boarding area in an airport. Bank accounts get frozen now if you do anything suspicious, like make money, if you have a funny last name. Banks cannot open an account for you anymore without extensive identification. Predating 9/11, but in the same veinEncryption is illegalAll cell phones have tracking capability To me, it's not just the disgust at what the feds are doing, it's that they are doing it in the open, legally, yet at odds with every founding bone in this country's body. I'm not a criminal... but I oppose all of these out of principal. It's unecessary. Those championing it have yet to champion a single good come from it. Where are the terrorists that were caught because of google? Retinal scans? Encrypted communications? What plot has been foiled because of frozen assets without an arrest? None. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bob the dentist Posted September 12, 2006 Members Share Posted September 12, 2006 Originally posted by Def_Pearl_Pilot Yeah, but I'd say it's one that needs it the most. And, of course Clinton's lied and so has every other president. While I've heard the alleged deaths revolving around Clinton, it doesn't compare to the almost 3000 deaths in the military.The thing that angers me the most about 9/11 is the fact that OBL was the guy that did it but he's no longer worth chasing after?!?!? That is the biggest crock of {censored} I've ever heard.The PA may not have personally impacted me or you but that doesn't mean that it's right. That's the last I'll say about it.Can't wait to hang tomorrow. Hasn't OBL said numerous times that he didn't do it? I mean {censored}, we're looking for him anyways, why would he lie if he did it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dark Angel Posted September 12, 2006 Members Share Posted September 12, 2006 Originally posted by Def_Pearl_Pilot The PA may not have personally impacted me or you but that doesn't mean that it's right. That's the last I'll say about it.Can't wait to hang tomorrow. I know you were speaking to Kage, but that little addition on the end is pretty fitting in a Patriot Act discussion. I'm afraid we're headed toward hanging Tomorrow. Maybe rev 2 should be rebranded the Commrade Act just so people read it more closely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 46&2 Posted September 12, 2006 Members Share Posted September 12, 2006 Originally posted by Def_Pearl_Pilot I know that we had this discussion when he was re-elected. My opinion was that I knew what to expect so let's get rid of the bum. Plus, I know that people hated Bush after his first term but I think the hatred has multiplied much more in this term. In other words, we didn't think he was that bad when he was up for re-election.The voters aren't responsible for his and his administrations decisions. But they are definitely responsible for letting him run wild again.To be fair, you do have a point about the Dem's putting up a candidate. But I don't think it was simply a matter of the candidate. The republicans had a better political machine. They knew what strings to pull and where to poke. That's why they won.BTW, that commentary by Olberman was superb. I got to watch that dumb{censored} govern Texas. I *knew* the first time that he would be a BIG {censored}ing mistake for Prez. It was so {censored}ing obvious. Obvious, obvious, OBVIOUS. Sorry, but it's beyond my comprehension how anyone could have voted for him over Gore or Kerry. I've heard all the arguments and they just don't cut it. I blame everyone who voted for him, and lots of people that I like voted for him. I also blame all the grass-roots {censored}s who perpetrated voter fraud to help him win. If there is a hell then they're damned to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dark Angel Posted September 12, 2006 Members Share Posted September 12, 2006 Originally posted by 46&2 Sorry, but it's beyond my comprehension how anyone could have voted for him over Gore or Kerry. Because I would have voted Anne Nicole Smith to be president before I would have voted for them? Sometimes votes aren't "for" someone, but only against someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ulank Posted September 12, 2006 Members Share Posted September 12, 2006 Originally posted by 46&2 I got to watch that dumb{censored} govern Texas. I *knew* the first time that he would be a BIG {censored}ing mistake for Prez. It was so {censored}ing obvious. Obvious, obvious, OBVIOUS. Sorry, but it's beyond my comprehension how anyone could have voted for him over Gore or Kerry. I've heard all the arguments and they just don't cut it. I blame everyone who voted for him, and lots of people that I like voted for him.I also blame all the grass-roots {censored}s who perpetrated voter fraud to help him win. If there is a hell then they're damned to it. Of course, you should also place equal blame on our Congressmen, if not more, since they're the ones more directly representing me and you. One thing I don't buy is that it's all Bush's fault. Every aspect of our gov't has dropped its own ball of responsibility. We didn't get in this position because of what Bush told us what to do - rather because we let him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mesaholic Posted September 12, 2006 Members Share Posted September 12, 2006 That's a beautifully written piece of bull{censored}. Most of things he cites - liking filling the hole in the ground, etc. etc. are the responsibility of the people of the City and State of New York. It's not Bush's job to erect a memorial or build an office building. There's plenty to quarrel about with Bush - but let's do it over things he has control over, shall we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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