Members FWAxeIbanez Posted November 21, 2007 Members Share Posted November 21, 2007 http://news.aol.com/story/_a/saudis-defend-punishment-for-rape-victim/n20071120175209990018 RIYADH, Saudi Arabia (AP) - The Saudi judiciary on Tuesday defended a court verdict that sentenced a 19-year-old victim of a gang rape to six months in jail and 200 lashes because she was with an unrelated male when they were attacked. The Shiite Muslim woman had initially been sentenced to 90 lashes after being convicted of violating Saudi Arabia's rigid Islamic law requiring segregation of the sexes. But in considering her appeal of the verdict, the Saudi General Court increased the punishment. It also roughly doubled prison sentences for the seven men convicted of raping the woman, Saudi news media said last week. and if that doesn't make you sick, read this: http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/11/21/saudi.rape.victim/index.html?iref=mpstoryview Calling the decision "an outrage", Sen. Clinton urged U.S. President George W. Bush to protest the decision to the Saudi authorities. "The Bush administration has refused to condemn the sentence and said it will not protest an internal Saudi decision," the Democrat presidential frontrunner said in a statement. "I urge President Bush to call on King Abdullah [of Saudi Arabia] to cancel the ruling and drop all charges against this woman." This is so ridiculous, and I think it shows her (slightly) hidden agenda. It's awesome that she's standing up for a rape victim, but why turn it into a political thing? I seriously doubt that she would have said anything at all if she wasn't in the race, and damn she couldn't resist trying to make it look like Bush's fault. From where I stand, this is their government and they are enforcing their laws. If you want to help this rape victim you need to put pressure on changing the laws, not focus on her specific incident, and even then you run the risk of looking like another western country trying to bully someone else... Asking them to change her sentence is basically like asking them to ignore a law that people have been put in power to protect. You change the law at the base, and the problem should be removed completely. But this law is based on a culture that believes women aren't equal to men, and getting this law changed would have a massive effect on the social structure. Not to mention the neighboring areas wouldn't be supportive. It's a "walking on eggshells" situation if you really have the victims best interest in mind. But thats Hilary for you, a selfish joke of a human being who is happy to turn the misfortune and mistreatment of others into a political tool for herself. Sometimes it's more about a person in trouble than a couple points in the polls or the little R or D next to the persons name, but I'm sure that would sound like foreign language to her. The laws are nothing new, this is something that has probably happened before, or at least has always been hypothetically possible, so where was she then? All the awful things that women are put through in that region have gone on without mention until she saw an opportunity to polarize herself from Bush. A court source told Arab News, an English-language Middle Eastern daily newspaper, that the woman's sentence was increased after the woman spoke to the media about the case. If anything, she is probably going to make it worse. Imagine what might have happened with a private phone call to Dubya. Maybe instead of looking like a country full of bickering lawyers, we could have had a statement issued by bipartisan authors (and with bipartisan support) to show the severity of our opposition to the law and sentence. But then America would look like the hero, instead of Hilary Rodham Clinton, and I guess she's more interested in having her name on the top of everyones mind instead of getting results I'm sure I'm going to get flamed for this, I'll probably be accused of supporting rape or being a hill billy cowboy conservative or something ridiculous like the typical ad hominem, so I probably wont even visit this thread again after I post it. I just had to get this rant out of my system. Hilary Clinton is one of the most disgusting people I can think of, it actually approaches the territory of fear for me. To think she might be recognized as the first woman president, makes me sick, and it would be a black eye to American history, as well as a black eye to liberals period. Isaac Newton told us that everything is on a downward spiral, and when humanitarian issues become political issues I'm forced to agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members potaetoes Posted November 21, 2007 Members Share Posted November 21, 2007 well, at least your agenda isn't hidden :blah::blah::blah::blah: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nodachi Posted November 21, 2007 Members Share Posted November 21, 2007 She's doing this to look good for her voters: women. if and when she does assume presidency, she would never do anything like what she's advocating now, because it's way too extreme. it's how all presidencial candidates are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Blackwater Posted November 21, 2007 Members Share Posted November 21, 2007 If you are not going to visit the post again, then why start it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members PurpleStain Posted November 21, 2007 Members Share Posted November 21, 2007 Jesus Christ. I don't give a {censored} about agendas. If you're trying to stop barbaric acts such as that, more power to you. I think we can all agree that punishing someone for being gang-raped in such a way should be considered wrong regardless of political affiliation. Call hillary out on that, and i'd have to say the same about Bush, being that he has such close personal ties to the Saudis. That's what politics are. That doesn't mean some good things don't get accomplished in the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blargh Posted November 21, 2007 Members Share Posted November 21, 2007 I don't like Hillary but frankly, every politician does that same kind of {censored}. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DoubleBarrel Posted November 21, 2007 Members Share Posted November 21, 2007 Calling the decision "an outrage", Sen. Clinton urged U.S. President George W. Bush to protest the decision to the Saudi authorities. "The Bush administration has refused to condemn the sentence and said it will not protest an internal Saudi decision," the Democrat presidential frontrunner said in a statement. "I urge President Bush to call on King Abdullah [of Saudi Arabia] to cancel the ruling and drop all charges against this woman." Wait.........I thought she wanted us to stay out of other soverign countries business ??? :poke: She's such a douchebag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members PurpleStain Posted November 21, 2007 Members Share Posted November 21, 2007 Wait.........I thought she wanted us to stay out of other soverign countries business ??? :poke: She's such a douchebag I don't think she's said quite that. The only candidate that's saying that is Ron Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Voltaire Posted November 21, 2007 Members Share Posted November 21, 2007 hm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members duncan Posted November 21, 2007 Members Share Posted November 21, 2007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members PurpleStain Posted November 21, 2007 Members Share Posted November 21, 2007 I just think that's a silly thing to call her trash over, considering there's plenty of other political opinions she holds that are quite more worthy of disdain. So what if she's a feminist? I don't agree with that girl being tortured after already suffering through the most intense violation a human being can possibly experience. I think that's wrong. To attack hillary for calling him out on it, regardless of her intentions is a little ridiculous. It makes you seem insensitive. It's just kind of like ignoring the person getting ran over by the car, just to further pay attention to how awesomely fast the porsche was going that did the running over. Pick something else, where it's debatable she's not trying to do some good. I think we can all agree what is going on with the rape victim is disgusting. Learning to pick battles worth fighting for is a good skill to have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kinggeoff Posted November 21, 2007 Members Share Posted November 21, 2007 HAHAHAHA rape-stopper FTW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members PurpleStain Posted November 21, 2007 Members Share Posted November 21, 2007 I guess you don't understand islamic law...there's a tooonnnn of {censored}ed up laws they inforce (though there are just as many retaded...albeit with less brutal consequences)HAHAHAHA rape-stopper FTW I'm well aware of how {censored}ed up their laws are. What does what I posted have to do with that? I think it's ridiculous that we are allied with a country that oppresses it's people in such a way. Anything that's said in opposition with such barbarism, I think, is for the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BusterBuster Posted November 21, 2007 Members Share Posted November 21, 2007 I think there all trash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dolf Posted November 21, 2007 Members Share Posted November 21, 2007 but why turn it into a political thing? because it IS a political thing! It's a basic human rights thing and while I understand that it's not America's business to run other countries, when we see blatant publicized violations of human rights, we should at the very least say something. That's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members duncan Posted November 21, 2007 Members Share Posted November 21, 2007 you guys have to keep in mind that you're viewing this whole situation from a western perpsective. of course it's going to seem backwards.... read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_relativism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members relva3 Posted November 21, 2007 Members Share Posted November 21, 2007 Harmony Central Musician Community Forums > Off-Topic Forums > The Political Party Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members PurpleStain Posted November 22, 2007 Members Share Posted November 22, 2007 you guys have to keep in mind that you're viewing this whole situation from a western perpsective. of course it's going to seem backwards....read:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_relativism I'm also well aware of that. I don't care what perspective i'm seeing things from, this is wrong. It doesn't take a moral genius to see the ridiculousness of her being punished for being gang raped. I've never cared what our western laws tell me, nor what eastern laws say. I know do what I think is right. There are things that are right, and there are things that are wrong, regardless of what perspective it's seen through. Yes, they've had thousands of years of this religious fundamentalist garbage corrupting their law books, but that still doesn't make it right. Just as I look back on Nazi Germany with disdain for doing what they thought they were well in their rights to do. {censored} perspectives. Something like this just goes against the fundamental rights of any human being, regardless of race, creed, and place of birth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MrSandMan Posted November 22, 2007 Members Share Posted November 22, 2007 I'm voting for Biden! Watch this video- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbOa989IRYw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members duncan Posted November 22, 2007 Members Share Posted November 22, 2007 I'm also well aware of that. I don't care what perspective i'm seeing things from, this is wrong. It doesn't take a moral genius to see the ridiculousness of her being punished for being gang raped. I've never cared what our western laws tell me, nor what eastern laws say. I know do what I think is right. There are things that are right, and there are things that are wrong, regardless of what perspective it's seen through. Yes, they've had thousands of years of this religious fundamentalist garbage corrupting their law books, but that still doesn't make it right. Just as I look back on Nazi Germany with disdain for doing what they thought they were well in their rights to do. {censored} perspectives. Something like this just goes against the fundamental rights of any human being, regardless of race, creed, and place of birth. you're still not understanding the situation from another scope of perception. if you were raised to believe that a woman should be punished for getting gang raped, then these events would have fallen into the realm of "morally good". there is nothing that is intrinsically "right" or "wrong". morals are nothing more than discourse that you have been immersed in since birth, and your parents before you, and their parents before them, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ancient Mariner Posted November 22, 2007 Members Share Posted November 22, 2007 I almost hope you guys get HC for prez at the next election, if only in the hope that people like the OP will explode from all their pent up anger and bias. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members PlayboyChris Posted November 22, 2007 Members Share Posted November 22, 2007 if and when she does assume presidency, she would never do anything like what she's advocating now As in, questioning the Saudis? You got that right. Maybe she'll blow some public smoke at 'em to make herself look good, but ultimately she'll jump right into bed with 'em like every other president in recent memory has. Of course, this is highly hypothetical. I still maintain that a female presidential candidate is unelectable in this country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members PurpleStain Posted November 22, 2007 Members Share Posted November 22, 2007 you're still not understanding the situation from another scope of perception. if you were raised to believe that a woman should be punished for getting gang raped, then these events would have fallen into the realm of "morally good". there is nothing that is intrinsically "right" or "wrong". morals are nothing more than discourse that you have been immersed in since birth, and your parents before you, and their parents before them, etc. I'm understanding it completely, believe me. I was a philosophy major at one point, specializing in morals and ethics. I know the point you are getting at, and i'm simply saying in this case it is wrong. I'm not looking at this through any scope, islamic, or christian. I'm looking at it from the perspective of the woman. She did nothing of her own doing. By any of her actions, she could not have stopped this to happen, or allowed it to. Something was forced upon her. She didn't do anything. Now she is being punished in a severe, harsh manner. I'm well aware of what their culture teaches them, but I have to disagree with you that there aren't things that are intrinsically "right", and "wrong". I don't believe anything because I was immersed in it since birth. There have been many beliefs my family and culture hold that i've chosen to disregard, and others that I have taken as a part of my own moral value system. Regardless of what your faith, or creed is, there are things that should not be allowed. The fact that their government or culture allow them to happen doesn't automatically make them a morally "right" thing to do. The fact that this woman did nothing to bring upon any of what that happened, and what is going to happen to her aside from being born, this should be obvious to anyone. Yes, some peoples views are warped and screwed by generations of brainwashing through religious fundamentalism, but this does not save them from being wrong in certain instances when it comes to things like this. Certain rights, and the extent of how they are held in respect are open to interpretation in most instances. This one, however, is not. It is completely morally illogical, and the ONLY reason this way of life is maintained is because it is artificially held in place and reinforced by an extremely unforgiving islamic belief system. I say artificial, because I would stake my life on it, that were a population of human beings brought up around each other with no concept of morality it would be extremely unlikely that they would hold the victim accountable in such a situation. It would take an outside influence such as the teaching of fundamentalist islam to do this. If you still feel that human beings still do not have any inalienable rights as people, regardless what side of the fence they are born in, then you must also allow that it was okay for the Nazi's to exterminate the jews, because that is what they believed was a correct thing to do. I cannot accept that. Put yourself in the perspective of the girl, and tell me what you're feeling. What is right and what is wrong? I'm well aware that her punishment seems fitting in such an oppressed place to some of it's population, but even within it's borders there are dissenters who can tell that this is an inhumane practice even "immersed" in the same culture as the people responsible for the girls prosecution. You can believe things are true because God says they are, but i'm of the camp that God says things because they are true ( hypothetically of couse, i'm an athiest). There are things that are true regardless of faith and demographic. This is obviously wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FWAxeIbanez Posted November 22, 2007 Author Members Share Posted November 22, 2007 you guys have to keep in mind that you're viewing this whole situation from a western perpsective. of course it's going to seem backwards.... I tried to touch on this in my original post. It's a good point, but I still feel like we have the right and obligation to condemn it. I'm not sure you would argue with that statement, I just wanted to clarify. If anything, I brought it up initially because it shows that it is not as easy as pressuring the judge to drop the sentence. The law is bourne from a culture that discourages equality and education. The hardest part of all tho, is defining the line between good advice and full on "westernization". I understand why people from other cultures see it as arrogant and condescending, and I'm not sure we have much right to tell a country how to run itself when our own is not exactly a paragon for governments everywhere... It's just that this comes down to basic human rights, so I would argue that we have (like I've already said) some right and obligation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FWAxeIbanez Posted November 22, 2007 Author Members Share Posted November 22, 2007 I almost hope you guys get HC for prez at the next election, if only in the hope that people like the OP will explode from all their pent up anger and bias. Bias? really? If the roles had been reversed and I was attacking Bush, I have a feeling that I wouldn't be getting pictures of ice dildo's. I probably wouldn't be called insensitive either... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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