Members thefyn Posted February 2, 2008 Members Share Posted February 2, 2008 rememberduane: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sex Panther Posted February 2, 2008 Members Share Posted February 2, 2008 Indeed...I hate it when I get sucked into the petty little squabbling. For that, I am teh jackass and fail.Win....if only for claiming self fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sex Panther Posted February 2, 2008 Members Share Posted February 2, 2008 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLUeSf86v1E Man....he's come a long way to become the Giants QB. Why isn't Peyton in this video? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Romanian Reaper Posted February 2, 2008 Members Share Posted February 2, 2008 The former British Ambassador to Jordan, Kuwait, and former governor of Aden lectures regularly at our university. He still writes about the Middle East and researches heavily. Spends time there when he can, but still has tons of connections. He knows this stuff intimately. And yet when I, an active member of the military, tries to say anything on this board it is waved off as not true. I'm not going to sit here and say that everything is going splendidly in Iraq. I do want to make the point that people outside of that country have no clue what is going on. All the news shows is "bomb explodes", "20 civilians killed", etc. For the record, we are not in a "ground war". This thing stopped being a war after we got to Baghdad and the Saddam's military ceased to exist. From that point forward, our goal was to give the Iraqi people a fair election, rebuild the infrastructure, and leave. It is not our fault that extremists from Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Iran,....basically the entire Middle East, decided to travel to a sort of "Woodstock concert" to come kick our ass. I'v been on this forum for years and I'm not foolish enough to think anyone will agree with me. I don't give a {censored}. My only purpose here is to defend U.S. military personnel who are getting the short end of the stick (as usual). My neighbor on the left side of my house just got back from Iraq. The neighbor on the right just left for Iraq. She left her two kids to do her job. Nobody is over there trying to complete a ground war, or kill as many Iraqis as possible. They are over there to help these people. The insurgents are not helping matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rememberduane Posted February 2, 2008 Author Members Share Posted February 2, 2008 And yet when I, an active member of the military, tries to say anything on this board it is waved off as not true. I'm not going to sit here and say that everything is going splendidly in Iraq. I do want to make the point that people outside of that country have no clue what is going on. All the news shows is "bomb explodes", "20 civilians killed", etc. For the record, we are not in a "ground war". This thing stopped being a war after we got to Baghdad and the Saddam's military ceased to exist. From that point forward, our goal was to give the Iraqi people a fair election, rebuild the infrastructure, and leave. It is not our fault that extremists from Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Iran,....basically the entire Middle East, decided to travel to a sort of "Woodstock concert" to come kick our ass. I'v been on this forum for years and I'm not foolish enough to think anyone will agree with me. I don't give a {censored}. My only purpose here is to defend U.S. military personnel who are getting the short end of the stick (as usual). My neighbor on the left side of my house just got back from Iraq. The neighbor on the right just left for Iraq. She left her two kids to do her job. Nobody is over there trying to complete a ground war, or kill as many Iraqis as possible. They are over there to help these people. The insurgents are not helping matters. Well, my point there was that he's well acquainted with heads of state and their close advisors. He also has hands on experience with the governments of these countries. I don't mean to be an ass, but its not the job of the military to do that. That's why there's a State Dept and a DoD.Having said that, I don't dismiss what you're saying at all, and I respect that you and those you know are in a position to tell it true. You're absolutely right that I don't know what's going on on the ground over there, and I appreciate you setting me straight. I wasn't quite saying what you said there, about them trying to kill Iraqis and whatnot, but either way, I thank you for clarifying.My problem isn't with the troops, or even the military. My problem is with the higher ups and the "grand strategy", if you will, regarding terrorism in general. I support the troops in every way possible. I have friends over there, and I hope for their safety every day. My point is that I feel that the government is putting their lives in danger for very little, if any, progress in the supposed "War on Terror".And I DO think it's the government's fault that all those people came pouring in. It has got to be SOMEONE'S job to understand the repercussions of destabilizing a country. It has been one of my main critiques of this administration that they chose to go at Iraq with just the military, completely disregarding Powell's idea to bring in political scientists to figure things out. If they had listened to him, and the former Army Chief of Staff who suggested a much higher troop number to begin with, we would be out of Iraq right now, or doing much more to reach the goals you stated we were working for.I hope it didn't seem like I was being rude to the men in uniform. And no, I dont dismiss what you have to say by any means. If you want to keep chatting here, or shoot me a PM and tell me more, I'd really appreciate the insights you could provide.Keep up the good job, and know that my thoughts are with you and your brothers in arms. Take care man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 17 Tubes Posted February 2, 2008 Members Share Posted February 2, 2008 And yet when I, an active member of the military, tries to say anything on this board it is waved off as not true.I'm not going to sit here and say that everything is going splendidly in Iraq. I do want to make the point that people outside of that country have no clue what is going on. All the news shows is "bomb explodes", "20 civilians killed", etc. For the record, we are not in a "ground war". This thing stopped being a war after we got to Baghdad and the Saddam's military ceased to exist. From that point forward, our goal was to give the Iraqi people a fair election, rebuild the infrastructure, and leave. It is not our fault that extremists from Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Iran,....basically the entire Middle East, decided to travel to a sort of "Woodstock concert" to come kick our ass.I'v been on this forum for years and I'm not foolish enough to think anyone will agree with me. I don't give a {censored}. My only purpose here is to defend U.S. military personnel who are getting the short end of the stick (as usual). My neighbor on the left side of my house just got back from Iraq. The neighbor on the right just left for Iraq. She left her two kids to do her job. Nobody is over there trying to complete a ground war, or kill as many Iraqis as possible. They are over there to help these people. The insurgents are not helping matters. I for one will always listen to the troops. My brother's wife is an MD with two tours. She would go for a third if it wouldn't damage her strined family situation. It's where I get much of my thought process, not wikipedia. (RD backpedal was cute) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JBecker Posted February 2, 2008 Members Share Posted February 2, 2008 I for one will always listen to the troops. My brother's wife is an MD with two tours. She would go for a third if it wouldn't damage her strined family situation. It's where I get much of my thought process, not wikipedia. (RD backpedal was cute) I don't really view it as a back peddle personally... Nothing he said is anything I'd ever disagree with and I think he just thinks RD is talking about something different... Unless I'm wrong about what Chris is talking about.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Phishmonkey Posted February 3, 2008 Members Share Posted February 3, 2008 Oh....wikipedia...the bastion of academic scholarship? And rememberduanne chomping at the bit...the same guy who scoffed at every single source I have ever cited? And gives his awesome award to wikipedia? What hypocrisy and arrogance. Only believe the source when it is convenient to YOUR truth? Nice deal! Okay...so I buy your source. Big deal...you found ONE instance of false information. Awesome super-duper good score! Enjoy your rememberduanne super award! I bet you got a nice slap on the butt too. So now you guys are experts in global intelligence, and can recite every instance of intelligence gathering...good for you! Didn't know you have such contacts. Now tell us about all the successful ones....since you know all that. If you don't like wikipedia you're welcome to go straight to the sourcehttp://intelligence.senate.gov/phaseiiaccuracy.pdfI may not be an expert on global intelligence, but I'm sure the united states senate might have access to some Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rememberduane Posted February 3, 2008 Author Members Share Posted February 3, 2008 If you don't like wikipedia you're welcome to go straight to the source http://intelligence.senate.gov/phaseiiaccuracy.pdfI may not be an expert on global intelligence, but I'm sure the united states senate might have access to some LOL Phishmonkey FTMFW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DoubleBarrel Posted February 5, 2008 Members Share Posted February 5, 2008 If you don't like wikipedia you're welcome to go straight to the source http://intelligence.senate.gov/phaseiiaccuracy.pdfI may not be an expert on global intelligence, but I'm sure the united states senate might have access to some O hyez, the US Government would never lie to you for thier own adgenda These are the people who got us into Iraq in the first place..........durrrrrrMassive Phail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 17 Tubes Posted February 5, 2008 Members Share Posted February 5, 2008 If you don't like wikipedia you're welcome to go straight to the source http://intelligence.senate.gov/phaseiiaccuracy.pdfI may not be an expert on global intelligence, but I'm sure the united states senate might have access to some Too bad they didn't check your source BEFORE "they" started the war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BusterBuster Posted February 5, 2008 Members Share Posted February 5, 2008 My son-in-law is in Afghanistan. I talked to him Sunday and he said it is a freaking mess over there. The Taliban has really built back up. How could this happen when the whole thing was focused at Afghanistan and now all we focus on is Iraq and it was a {censored}ing mistake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 17 Tubes Posted February 5, 2008 Members Share Posted February 5, 2008 Also...I phishmonkey...I am going to do what other people are unwilling or incapable of doing...I am going to thouroughly READ your link, before I make any comments or insults . Looks like it's gonna be tough...there appears to be a lot of...shall we say...CYA?...in it. But I noticed one of the signatures is Rockefeller...THIS guy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 17 Tubes Posted February 5, 2008 Members Share Posted February 5, 2008 My son-in-law is in Afghanistan. I talked to him Sunday and he said it is a freaking mess over there. The Taliban has really built back up. How could this happen when the whole thing was focused at Afghanistan and now all we focus on is Iraq and it was a {censored}ing mistake Yes...it's getting pretty {censored}ed up. I'm not entirely sure it was dandy from the begining. We are a society that wants their cheeseburgers and their war victory NOW. The people we are dealing with...you can't tell loyalties nor intents...but they are a long-term culture. They can wait years for one strike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members thefyn Posted February 5, 2008 Members Share Posted February 5, 2008 Well, my point there was that he's well acquainted with heads of state and their close advisors. He also has hands on experience with the governments of these countries. I don't mean to be an ass, but its not the job of the military to do that. That's why there's a State Dept and a DoD. Lol. So obviously they are going to tell your contact that they are doing a horrible job and everything is messed up right? Talk about the party line. Same goes for where you study. If you think you are getting a non biased view on what is going on from an ALLIED country that was heavily involved with the war and ensuing PR nightmare then you are deluded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DoubleBarrel Posted February 5, 2008 Members Share Posted February 5, 2008 LOL Phishmonkey FTMFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kebabeater Posted February 5, 2008 Members Share Posted February 5, 2008 Not to mention that the Bush family seems to have much closer ties to the Bin Laden family than Hussein EVER did. Gee, could that be why that giant bearded cocksucker is still running around scott-free?It really chaps my ass that we can spend trillions of dollars and waste hundreds of thousands of American and Iraqi lives on a worse than useless "create your own nemesis" war, but we can't get a bead on the most recognizable seven-foot-tall guy in the middle-east and take him out with a sniper or something? WHAT... THE... {censored}!!! +1 This is the key to the whole debacle. Al Qaeda led by Bin Laden perpetrated Sep 11 and Bush decides that rather than really try and get Bin Laden that he'll invade Iraq instead. Hussein was a megalomaniac who had no tolerance for anyone who did not agree with him....there is no way he would tolerate Bin Laden since he would have potentially been a threat to his power...Whilst Hussein was a genocidal tyrant in Iraq he kept the different factions (shia, sunni and kurds) apart. Unfortunately the Bush administration didn't even take this into account when they removed him and are still scratching their arses wondering why their soldiers are getting shot at every day rather than being treated as heroes..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mattzito Posted February 5, 2008 Members Share Posted February 5, 2008 And yet when I, an active member of the military, tries to say anything on this board it is waved off as not true.I'm not going to sit here and say that everything is going splendidly in Iraq. I do want to make the point that people outside of that country have no clue what is going on. All the news shows is "bomb explodes", "20 civilians killed", etc. For the record, we are not in a "ground war". This thing stopped being a war after we got to Baghdad and the Saddam's military ceased to exist. From that point forward, our goal was to give the Iraqi people a fair election, rebuild the infrastructure, and leave. It is not our fault that extremists from Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Iran,....basically the entire Middle East, decided to travel to a sort of "Woodstock concert" to come kick our ass.I'v been on this forum for years and I'm not foolish enough to think anyone will agree with me. I don't give a {censored}. My only purpose here is to defend U.S. military personnel who are getting the short end of the stick (as usual). My neighbor on the left side of my house just got back from Iraq. The neighbor on the right just left for Iraq. She left her two kids to do her job. Nobody is over there trying to complete a ground war, or kill as many Iraqis as possible. They are over there to help these people. The insurgents are not helping matters. I thought the war was over when bush landed on the aircraft carrier to announce "mission accomplished"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 17 Tubes Posted February 5, 2008 Members Share Posted February 5, 2008 +1This is the key to the whole debacle. Al Qaeda led by Bin Laden perpetrated Sep 11 and Bush decides that rather than really try and get Bin Laden that he'll invade Iraq instead. Hussein was a megalomaniac who had no tolerance for anyone who did not agree with him....there is no way he would tolerate Bin Laden since he would have potentially been a threat to his power...Whilst Hussein was a genocidal tyrant in Iraq he kept the different factions (shia, sunni and kurds) apart. Unfortunately the Bush administration didn't even take this into account when they removed him and are still scratching their arses wondering why their soldiers are getting shot at every day rather than being treated as heroes..... There were a LOT of mistakes, {censored}-ups, and yes...even probably some lies thrown in, by all the politicians... But The Bush Crusade was NEVER about bin laden. Feel free to believe whatever you want to believe, or maybe you have selective memory...this was ALWAYS about "the war on terr-ir"....Bush has been criticized for several YEARS now about American bloodthirst for bin Laden and his lack of it. I think, as dumb as he might be, he actually GETS it that a bullet in bin Ladens head will do little if anything to fight regional and global terrorism. Sure, a bullet in the head will make us feel much better, won't it? It would finally make some peoople shut the {censored} up about it. But what would it REALLY do in the larger scheme of things. But *if* by some SLIM chance, we can bring some form of stabilty and some form of modern government to Iraq....that would be HUGE in the grand scheme. Not saying it is probable...looks pretty bad...but it's POSSIBLE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 17 Tubes Posted February 5, 2008 Members Share Posted February 5, 2008 I thought the war was over when bush landed on the aircraft carrier to announce "mission accomplished"? See...you don't even know the difference between a "mission" and a "war". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mattzito Posted February 5, 2008 Members Share Posted February 5, 2008 See...you don't even know the difference between a "mission" and a "war". OOOOOoooohhhhhhhh Thankssssss You're sooo smarrrtttt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kebabeater Posted February 5, 2008 Members Share Posted February 5, 2008 There were a LOT of mistakes, {censored}-ups, and yes...even probably some lies thrown in, by all the politicians... But The Bush Crusade was NEVER about bin laden. Feel free to believe whatever you want to believe, or maybe you have selective memory...this was ALWAYS about "the war on terr-ir"....Bush has been criticized for several YEARS now about American bloodthirst for bin Laden and his lack of it. I think, as dumb as he might be, he actually GETS it that a bullet in bin Ladens head will do little if anything to fight regional and global terrorism. Sure, a bullet in the head will make us feel much better, won't it? It would finally make some peoople shut the {censored} up about it. But what would it REALLY do in the larger scheme of things. But *if* by some SLIM chance, we can bring some form of stabilty and some form of modern government to Iraq....that would be HUGE in the grand scheme. Not saying it is probable...looks pretty bad...but it's POSSIBLE. Agree this is a 'war on terror' (which is a nonsensical phrase)...however Bush's premise for invading Iraq was that they definitely had nuclear weapons and were a threat to world peace...Rumsfeld then continued to lie by saying that Iraq had links with Al Qaeda and Bin Laden....both proved to be bollocks.... so the 2 are linked.Whether capturing or killing Bin Laden would have any impact on terrorism is indeed debatable...it probably wouldn't make things worse.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 17 Tubes Posted February 5, 2008 Members Share Posted February 5, 2008 OOOOOoooohhhhhhhh Thankssssss You're sooo smarrrtttt Well get it right then... a freaking mission won doesn't make a war victory. Unless you just want to cry and whine with your Air America parroting, and "clever" bumper sticker slogans...try to keep it real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 17 Tubes Posted February 5, 2008 Members Share Posted February 5, 2008 Agree this is a 'war on terror' (which is a nonsensical phrase)...however Bush's premise for invading Iraq was that they definitely had nuclear weapons and were a threat to world peace...Rumsfeld then continued to lie by saying that Iraq had links with Al Qaeda and Bin Laden....both proved to be bollocks.... so the 2 are linked. Whether capturing or killing Bin Laden would have any impact on terrorism is indeed debatable...it probably wouldn't make things worse.... I believe it could....the martyr thing, yes?And it's hard to tell if he is actually alive anyway....yeah?One thing I have a problem with is the 2nd guessing....the "official reports" after the fact. Monday morning QB. Clinton and his adminstration continued to trot out evidence and rhetoric the Saddam was a dnager, had, used, and wanted more WMD's including nukes. So did MANY members of congress as well as other world leaders. Funny how we couldn't prove it "bollocks" back then. In fact, much of that same intelligence was used by the Bush admin, espeically in the days shortly after 911. I believe during the time it took for Bush to ANNOUNCE (hello, USA coming to kick your ass and look for WMD's) Saddam was able to get rid of whatever loose change he had in WMD currency. His little dinner dates with the UN didn't help much. 7 Years? All ineffectual at keeping Saddam in check. Sure Rums & Co had a lot to do with all this, but I believe it's also a very long series of events as well. If the UN would have done their job, if France and Germany would have joined, it would never have gotten this bad. Go on, call me a stupid ignorant dumb{censored}! izOkay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DoubleBarrel Posted February 5, 2008 Members Share Posted February 5, 2008 Well get it right then... a freaking mission won doesn't make a war victory. Unless you just want to cry and whine with your Air America parroting, and "clever" bumper sticker slogans...try to keep it real. Al Franken is a big fat idiot, and a lying liar who tells lies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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