OT: Why are we fighting a ground war?

[Mel Cooley]

Be careful. Most gun toting rednecks don't "swing that way".

[Hardtail]

rememberduane, I haven't read the thread and I'm not going to. I'll just go ahead and answer your question. Troop presence helps keep violence down and the residents feel safer with US troops around. Missiles, while accurate cause too much collateral damage. The simple fact is that you can't replace boots on the ground with some fancy missile system.

 

 

Exafro - for the first time in HCAF history, I agree with you 100%. Well put.

 

HT

[BusterBuster]

Be careful. Most gun toting rednecks don't "swing that way".

OMG ... Reach out and touch someone

[17 Tubes]

Be careful. Most gun toting rednecks don't "swing that way".

 

OMG ... Reach out and touch someone

 

 

 

What? It's just a little pheasant hunting.

[Phishmonkey]

Also...I phishmonkey...I am going to do what other people are unwilling or incapable of doing...I am going to thouroughly READ your link, before I make any comments or insults . Looks like it's gonna be tough...there appears to be a lot of...shall we say...CYA?...in it.

 

You could actually read the wikipedia link where it points you directly to the right pages

[DoubleBarrel]

Yes the government is advocating for torture so they made up this whole incident about torture giving us bad information. That makes perfect sense Wait a minute thats not right... When people lie to support their agenda they usually make information that SUPPORTS THEIR AGENDA You could actually read the wikipedia link where it points you directly to the right pages

You missed it again.

You rant and rave about the evilz government, and how they lied to us about WMD's, Iraq, and tons of other stuff. But now you quote them as a source, and say they are experts in global intelligence


Global phail..........

[Phishmonkey]

You missed it again. You rant and rave about the evilz government, and how they lied to us about WMD's, Iraq, and tons of other stuff. But now you quote them as a source, and say they are experts in global intelligence Global phail..........

Again, you demonstrate that you have have the reasoning skills of a third grader. Of course people in the government lie to support their own motives, but believe it or not there are some in the government who don't like that Hence why we have something called oversight You see things in extremes and absolutes. The government is not one giant being acting as one, and is neither totally corrupted or totally infallible

And of course thats completely ignoring the fact that finding evidence that torture doesn't work and that the war in Iraq is based on fraud doesn't really reflect well on the current administration. So the odds that this is all a big conspiracy and that this is all made up are pretty small

[Urban Ghandi]

We're in a ground war because you cannot do everything you need to do with planes, drones and diplomacy (unfortunately).

Boots on the ground = Impose your will (at least that's the theory)

But, I'm sure that has already been said somewhere in this thread.

I think I'll go with our military's perspective than "teh HCAF."

[Phishmonkey]

^Getting back on topic I don't think anyone is literally saying don't use troops at all. More like massive ground invasion vs air strikes and small spec ops missions. In which case there's a clear winner. Small controlled air strikes just killed a top terrorist, massive ground invasions destabilized two countries in the past 7 years

[17 Tubes]

So...you base all that on just ONE successful surgical strike?


How many have failed? Just watched a special today about an Afhgan operation, I foget the stronghold but it was a hell....the North fighters flooded the basement with freezing cold water....but anyway...my point was they dropped a bomb ion the wrong place.



Not ALL bomb missions will be successful. Many of them...AREN'T! You can;t cite ONE as your whole basis for warfare strategy and tactics.


Now, having said that...I don't call what we do in Iraq a "ground WAR". Far from it. If we could have performed a real GROUND WAR operation, this would have been over years ago.

[tetaJ]

in the immortal words paraphrased by mr B Idol

 

Money money, money money, yeah yeah i say yeah!!!!!!

[Urban Ghandi]

^Getting back on topic I don't think anyone is literally saying don't use troops at all. More like massive ground invasion vs air strikes and small spec ops missions. In which case there's a clear winner. Small controlled air strikes just killed a top terrorist, massive ground invasions destabilized two countries in the past 7 years

 

 

 

Both Iraq and Afghanistan are BIG places...no, not U.S. big, but very large countries. The amount of troops we have in those places is just enough to keep things civilized. Any less and you'll see violence surge IMHO.

 

Hopefully as insurgents die and the population (of both countries) tires of the senseless killing and violence, they will be stronger and support themselves - bringing our troops home as things stabilize.

[Urban Ghandi]

in the immortal words paraphrased by mr B Idol Money money, money money, yeah yeah i say yeah!!!!!!

 

 

 

Uh, hey Magwi, it's Mony, Mony.

[tetaJ]

Both Iraq and Afghanistan are BIG places...no, not U.S. big, but very large countries. The amount of troops we have in those places is just enough to keep things civilized. Any less and you'll see violence surge IMHO. Hopefully as insurgents die and the population (of both countries) tires of the senseless killing and violence, they will be stronger and support themselves - bringing our troops home as things stabilize.

 

 

Things were civilized b4 the USA got in there

[tetaJ]

 

Uh, hey Magwi, it's Mony, Mony.

 

 

You shouldn't mud Ghandi's name

 

Don't you guys remember when in 2001 i said:

 

No WMD

This war will last a long time contrary to those who believed it was going to last 15 days

and 4 other points that i don't care bringing up now

 

You guys were all over me, cause you guys "know" so much about the world.

Well , it is 2008 and the things i told you in 2001 became true.

 

I used another moniker back then, some of you know what it is or was.

 

What i don't understand is how in hell when i told you those things back then and they have become a reality, how in hell do you still argue the same old {censored} when everything i told you 7 years ago have become a crude reality?

 

You can't argue facts with opinions

[feralmusic]

the present iraqi government is completely corrupt, skimming billions of taxpayer dollars (that we borrowed from china) and killing dozens of mid-level officials who tried to investigate the skimming. this is the government we paid one trillion dollars for (money our children will be paying back for the rest of their lives.) patraeus brokered what amounts to bribes to the local warlords and tribal leaders to keep them from launching an all-out civil war. it is working to some degree for now, but all hell will break loose as soon as the bribe money runs out. the u.s. military cannot leave....ever. that's why mcCain made that quip about occupying iraq for the next 100 years. you see, the neocon administration knew this even before invading. this had nothing to do with incompetence. their plan worked beautifully. the no-bid contractors are swimming in money (okay... so it's covered in blood, but that won't bother them,) and are kicking back to the cabal who fabricated the iraq war. mission accomplished, indeed.

[17 Tubes]

You shouldn't mud Ghandi's name Don't you guys remember when in 2001 i said: No WMD This war will last a long time contrary to those who believed it was going to last 15 days and 4 other points that i don't care bringing up now You guys were all over me, cause you guys "know" so much about the world. Well , it is 2008 and the things i told you in 2001 became true. I used another moniker back then, some of you know what it is or was. What i don't understand is how in hell when i told you those things back then and they have become a reality, how in hell do you still argue the same old {censored} when everything i told you 7 years ago have become a crude reality? You can't argue facts with opinions

 

 

Wow...that's one mighty fine big horse you just rode in on. How the weather up there?

 

 

Why not tell us who you were. Being coy is unbecoming such a fine nostradamus as yourself.

 

 

Well, not sure I can find the quote....I'll look...but Bush himself said (I paraphrase)"it will be a long arduous task, maybe years".

 

 

Gosh that was SHEER Brilliance! We LOVE you! To think you predicted a long war!

 

 

Too bad it wasn't/isn't a real war.

[pir]

Al Franken is a big fat idiot, and a lying liar who tells lies

Al Franken for Senate!

[Urban Ghandi]

Things were civilized b4 the USA got in there

 

 

 

Really now...

[Urban Ghandi]

You shouldn't mud Ghandi's name

 

 

Dude, he spells his name differently but I'm sure you knew that.

[corbind]

The Return of the Taliban

 

 

Very interesting...

[DoubleBarrel]

Again, you demonstrate that you have have the reasoning skills of a third grader. Of course people in the government lie to support their own motives, but believe it or not there are some in the government who don't like that Hence why we have something called oversight You see things in extremes and absolutes. The government is not one giant being acting as one, and is neither totally corrupted or totally infallible And of course thats completely ignoring the fact that finding evidence that torture doesn't work and that the war in Iraq is based on fraud doesn't really reflect well on the current administration. So the odds that this is all a big conspiracy and that this is all made up are pretty small

Are you really this retarted ?

Look, I'll lay it out nice and simple for you.

You can't condemn the gov't for the lies that got us into Iraq. Specifically the "lies" about WMD's. But then quote the gov't as a reliable source and experts on global intelligence.

WMD's would be part of "global intelligence"

So your source is unreliable, biased, and by your own admission "has thier own motives". It's not the topic that matters, it's the reliability of the source that is at issue here.


This is simple logic, that you should know.

[kebabeater]

I believe it could....the martyr thing, yes? And it's hard to tell if he is actually alive anyway....yeah? One thing I have a problem with is the 2nd guessing....the "official reports" after the fact. Monday morning QB. Clinton and his adminstration continued to trot out evidence and rhetoric the Saddam was a dnager, had, used, and wanted more WMD's including nukes. So did MANY members of congress as well as other world leaders. Funny how we couldn't prove it "bollocks" back then. In fact, much of that same intelligence was used by the Bush admin, espeically in the days shortly after 911. I believe during the time it took for Bush to ANNOUNCE (hello, USA coming to kick your ass and look for WMD's) Saddam was able to get rid of whatever loose change he had in WMD currency. His little dinner dates with the UN didn't help much. 7 Years? All ineffectual at keeping Saddam in check. Sure Rums & Co had a lot to do with all this, but I believe it's also a very long series of events as well. If the UN would have done their job, if France and Germany would have joined, it would never have gotten this bad. Go on, call me a stupid ignorant dumb{censored}! izOkay.

I wouldn't call anybody with a valid opinion a 'stupid ignorant dumb{censored}'. I disagree with your conjecture that Saddam managed to ship all his WMDs out of the country...where? he had no friends in the region...everyone hated him....not sure either that if the Frogs and the Krauts had joined, the world would be a happier place....how? more troops? not sure that would have helped either.....the only way I can see that this war is justified is if the Bush Administration had carefully deduced that the US influence in Iraq would cause Al Qaeda to concentrate their efforts in Iraq and thus negate any potential attacks on US soil....personally I'm not sure the Bush Administration has the intelligence to figure that one out; after all ' Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we'....says it all really

[17 Tubes]

kebabeater...thanks for the reply. Regarding the admin being smart enough to think Iraq would be a vacuum for regional terrorists...yeah...I'm not sure about that either...but you know what, there are...factions...who think Bush & co. PLANNED 911. So some people aren't afraid to give him/them credit when it suits their agenda.


Regarding frogs and krauts...there are a few people here who will tell you I've been spewing this nonsense for far too long...but it is my feeling that, since France and Germany CLAIM they knew Saddam didn't have any WMD's to speak of (and they would surely know), they SHOULD have joined the coalition to provide a balanced force....not only in global power scheme of things, but also philosophy. They could have shown us around, and also provided extra manpower for border patrol. I believe it would have made a HUGE difference, and this whole Bush murdered, he's a war criminal, and the thousands of lives and severe injuries would never have happened.

And france and Germany would have STILL have been able to put egg on Bush's face.

But no...the feigned outrage and indignance, HUMANITARIAN CONCERNS , all the while scrambling to figure out how to hide their illegal activities. Luckily enough for them (they could have planned it this way), Iraq was such a huge debacle, they didn't have too many concerns about their petty arms/oil/money deals.



Ragarding possible WMD's...there were reports of chemical pollution in rivers, convoys of trucks to Syria, and Saddam's scientists testimony. Recall the amount of time between Buish's "Coalition request" and actual invasion?

But who knows the real truth anymore. The Politics Of The Media, and the polarization of the citizens on a massive scale have clouded truth. Which is why I don't understand some of the egotistic, pompous, and self-admiring antics that go on here. Only certain people are experts, and refuse to even READ or hear someone else out.


I stil wonder if anyone read this: http://www.city-journal.org/html/15_1_terrorists.html



I doubt it, it's not a popular viewpoint. We WANT us to be bad, or so it seems. We feed off the media's buffet of it. I'm not saying you have to agree, and give the USA free reign, but it does give a little more substantial food for though.