OT: As if we didn't know, American teenagers "stunningly ignorant"

[Sex Panther]

So history isn't important? Right.

You just took his post out of context completely. Did you even read it?

[TheToneMan]

If you want my personal opinion, that is an interpretation of youth from the perspective of an older (and biased) generation. Current grandparents said the same thing about their children in the 70's. The truth is, we are emphasizing different (and I would argue better, but that's subjective) points in our education system. The study above covers raw facts and knowledge. Knowledge varies from generation to generation. For example, the current generation may not be keen on their civil war facts, but they could tell you a whole lot more about computer technology in all of its useful applications. How could you judge which knowledge is more significant? Furthermore, our current education puts a much greater emphasis on understanding concepts versus memorizing raw data. Is it really better to teach when the civil war took place or why it took place and how it has impacted our nation? In the end, if intelligence is derived from knowledge, and knowledge is situational, then the teenagers of today are no more or less intelligent or knowledgable than past generations. They are merely a different culture with different values and ideals. Past knowledge is no more or less important than current knowledge. If the New York Times or anyone else cannot see that from their perspective then they are, ironically, "stunningly ignorant."

 

 

+1

[Weathered]

If you want my personal opinion, that is an interpretation of youth from the perspective of an older (and biased) generation. Current grandparents said the same thing about their children in the 70's. The truth is, we are emphasizing different (and I would argue better, but that's subjective) points in our education system. The study above covers raw facts and knowledge. Knowledge varies from generation to generation. For example, the current generation may not be keen on their civil war facts, but they could tell you a whole lot more about computer technology in all of its useful applications. How could you judge which knowledge is more significant? Furthermore, our current education puts a much greater emphasis on understanding concepts versus memorizing raw data. Is it really better to teach when the civil war took place or why it took place and how it has impacted our nation? In the end, if intelligence is derived from knowledge, and knowledge is situational, then the teenagers of today are no more or less intelligent or knowledgable than past generations. They are merely a different culture with different values and ideals. Past knowledge is no more or less important than current knowledge. If the New York Times or anyone else cannot see that from their perspective then they are, ironically, "stunningly ignorant."

 

 

That still doesn't excuse children from knowing a few seemingly basic facts about history and literature.

 

"Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it."

[Detonator]

A History Teacher? And why are you adding stuff? :poke: Sorry I forgot all the :poke: in the original post. :poke:

:poke:

The reason I added the other categories is because they are other programs that are being pushed aside in the public education system. As for history, it can apply to many professions. Historians, anthropology, politics, etc. In addition, it's a good subject to know, because as people, we learn from our mistakes. History is full of them.

["sasquatch"]

Government schools = fail

[squealie]

You just took his post out of context completely. Did you even read it?

Classic Rememberduane.

Fairly bright dude, but don't dare engage him in debate, lest you get rolleyed.

[chakosh]

I have family that are teachers as well as some of my close friends. One of the major problems is that we've shifted the responsibility of learning material onto the teacher and not on the student. You cannot take away a kid's iPod if he's listening during class. You cannot do any sort of punishment whatsoever for disruptive behavior without fearing that you'll be on some demented kid's "list" of people to shoot when he gets access to Dad's guns. You can't take a kid's cell phone away from him during class when he sits in the back and text messages his friends all class long. Then when the kid fails the class, it's the teachers' fault for not teaching him the material. With these standarized tests taking money from the schools who are under-performing, we're headed in the wrong direction. Here's an idea - if a hospital doesn't prove that it's able to "fix" more people than die, they should start having their funding cut until they can "perform." Bass-ackwards logic... Ah, God bless our Gov'm'n't.

[rememberduane]

You just took his post out of context completely. Did you even read it?

Yes, actually, thanks. I did not take it out of context.

These questions are basic building blocks of knowledge. How can you know anything about World History if you think Columbus landed in America in 1750? The lack of said knowledge precludes other historical knowledge.

How can you form a worldview without the most basic knowledge of history?

I wouldn't agree with what he said about conceptualizing either. When I took AP History, A {censored}ing P US History, the girl next to me was actually ANGRY that the teacher expected her to know who fought in the American Civil War. I would normally just write that off as one incredibly stupid girl, but OTHER PEOPLE AGREED. Most people are all kinds of stupid, and they can graduate from a US public school anyway.


You CAN judge on which is more significant, history or computer technology. History. Computer technology cannot help you be a responsible citizen by making informed political opinions. It precludes real understanding of politics, literature, economics, law, philosophy, anthropology, or ANY indicator of the human condition.

If "knowing" about computers is equally as significant as "knowing" about history to the average American, then that explains a lot about the current political climate in the US.

Most people don't have beyond a *functional* knowledge of computer technology anyway. Most people know how to WORK technology, not what is actually happening except superficially. That doesn't seem like very much knowledge to me.

[CenturyStanding]

That still doesn't excuse children from knowing a few seemingly basic facts about history and literature. "Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it."

 

 

I would agree. The key to everything is balance. Too many facts and too little comprehension causes a sort of "sheep" mentality. Too much comprehension and too little facts causes typical elitist ignorance.

 

But my gripe with this study is not whether or not children should know those facts, it is that the New York Times clearly says "KIDS DON'T KNOW THIS THEREFORE THEY ARE DUMB."

 

I'm a marketing professional and am completely 100% technically challenged when it comes to tools and handywork. If I told an electrician "you don't know about marketing therefore your an idiot" when I seriously have trouble changing a lightbulb, would that be an intelligent or accurate thing to say? Absolutely not. I care more and am better at marketing, therefore I acquired more knowledge of marketing, whereas an electrician would be my equal and opposite.

 

That article is 100% biased and ridiculous.

[rememberduane]

That still doesn't excuse children from knowing a few seemingly basic facts about history and literature. "Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it."

 

 

Precisely. Basic facts are necessary. I'm not asking you to tell me on what day the Battle of Antietam was. I just want to know if you know the GENERAL timeframe. The questions were multiple choice for {censored}'s sake. A QUARTER didn't know who HITLER was.

[rememberduane]

I would agree. The key to everything is balance. Too many facts and too little comprehension causes a sort of "sheep" mentality. Too much comprehension and too little facts causes typical elitist ignorance. But my gripe with this study is not whether or not children should know those facts, it is that the New York Times clearly says "KIDS DON'T KNOW THIS THEREFORE THEY ARE DUMB." I'm a marketing professional and am completely 100% technically challenged when it comes to tools and handywork. If I told an electrician "you don't know about marketing therefore your an idiot" when I seriously have trouble changing a lightbulb, would that be an intelligent or accurate thing to say? Absolutely not. I care more and am better at marketing, therefore I acquired more knowledge of marketing, whereas an electrician would be my equal and opposite. That article is 100% biased and ridiculous.

 

 

This isn't analogous. Those *skills* do not preclude you from a general understanding of the world.

[rememberduane]

Classic Rememberduane. Fairly bright dude, but don't dare engage him in debate, lest you get rolleyed.

 

 

Rolleyed, its whats for dinner.

[Weathered]

Precisely. Basic facts are necessary. I'm not asking you to tell me on what day the Battle of Antietam was. I just want to know if you know the GENERAL timeframe. The questions were multiple choice for {censored}'s sake. A QUARTER didn't know who HITLER was.

 

 

I'd be interested to find out how many of the wrong answers were "the German kaiser." That's a poorly worded question, as I'd bet a lot of them knew that he was in power, and didn't know the difference between Kaiser and Chancellor.

[Dolf]

And here we have proof that this forum is--indeed--a cross-section model of our teenage generation.

[CenturyStanding]

Yes, actually, thanks. I did not take it out of context. These questions are basic building blocks of knowledge. How can you know anything about World History if you think Columbus landed in America in 1750? The lack of said knowledge precludes other historical knowledge. How can you form a worldview without the most basic knowledge of history? I wouldn't agree with what he said about conceptualizing either. When I took AP History, A {censored}ing P US History, the girl next to me was actually ANGRY that the teacher expected her to know who fought in the American Civil War. I would normally just write that off as one incredibly stupid girl, but OTHER PEOPLE AGREED. Most people are all kinds of stupid, and they can graduate from a US public school anyway. You CAN judge on which is more significant, history or computer technology. History. Computer technology cannot help you be a responsible citizen by making informed political opinions. It precludes real understanding of politics, literature, economics, law, philosophy, anthropology, or ANY indicator of the human condition. If "knowing" about computers is equally as significant as "knowing" about history to the average American, then that explains a lot about the current political climate in the US. Most people don't have beyond a *functional* knowledge of computer technology anyway. Most people know how to WORK technology, not what is actually happening except superficially. That doesn't seem like very much knowledge to me.

 

 

See my post right above this. I am not saying one is right or wrong, I am saying the key to everything is balance. And balance is what that article and study both lack.

[Bopper]

 

"Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it."

 

 

Actually those who know history are STILL doomed to repeat it. Its the human way.

[rememberduane]

See my post right above this. I am not saying one is right or wrong, I am saying the key to everything is balance. And balance is what that article and study both lack.

 

 

See my reply. Basic, fundamental historical understanding is NOT to be balanced with technical skills. No one said the kids were stupid. They said they were *ignorant*. And without knowing those BASIC, foundational facts, they are.

[rememberduane]

Actually those who know history are STILL doomed to repeat it. Its the human way.

 

 

More like most people don't know history, are doomed to repeat it, and those who do know history are doomed to be dragged along.

[Dolf]

Yes, actually, thanks. I did not take it out of context. These questions are basic building blocks of knowledge. How can you know anything about World History if you think Columbus landed in America in 1750? The lack of said knowledge precludes other historical knowledge. How can you form a worldview without the most basic knowledge of history? I wouldn't agree with what he said about conceptualizing either. When I took AP History, A {censored}ing P US History, the girl next to me was actually ANGRY that the teacher expected her to know who fought in the American Civil War. I would normally just write that off as one incredibly stupid girl, but OTHER PEOPLE AGREED. Most people are all kinds of stupid, and they can graduate from a US public school anyway. You CAN judge on which is more significant, history or computer technology. History. Computer technology cannot help you be a responsible citizen by making informed political opinions. It precludes real understanding of politics, literature, economics, law, philosophy, anthropology, or ANY indicator of the human condition. If "knowing" about computers is equally as significant as "knowing" about history to the average American, then that explains a lot about the current political climate in the US. Most people don't have beyond a *functional* knowledge of computer technology anyway. Most people know how to WORK technology, not what is actually happening except superficially. That doesn't seem like very much knowledge to me.

 

 

:phil:

[CGord]

:thu: Two thumbs up for teh sweet, sweet irony.

[rememberduane]

 

I'd be interested to find out how many of the wrong answers were "the German kaiser." That's a poorly worded question, as I'd bet a lot of them knew that he was in power, and didn't know the difference between Kaiser and Chancellor.

 

 

I would be inclined to agree, but really I don't see how people can not know. Hitler is arguably the most famous figure of the 20th century.

 

If anything it shows very poor test taking skills. The "Second World War" part was a dead giveaway for the answer no matter how dumb you are.

[nakedzen]

 

 

 

We have government paid education all the way to university and:

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4073753.stm

[Weathered]

I would be inclined to agree, but really I don't see how people can not know. Hitler is arguably the most famous figure of the 20th century. If anything it shows very poor test taking skills. The "Second World War" part was a dead giveaway for the answer no matter how dumb you are.

 

 

But again, I'd be really interested to know how they would have answered if the answers had been worded "The leader of Germany" or something similar. It's a loaded question to have 2 similar terms in there.

[Elric]

I think it would be cool if for a change they let the kids do the study and then release their results.

 

Example survey questions:

 

 

How do you reset an iPOD?

 

How many children has Britney Spears given birth to?

 

Follow up Question: Name at least one alleged father and associated child.

 

You have an Algebra II quiz but can't see your best friend Brandy's paper. She has an iPOD touch with WiFi, Motorola RAZRV3 cell phone with Sprint's Call USA plan. She has accounts on ICQ, Skype, and MySpace. What is the best method for finding out what she got for question #6?

 

How do you embed a Youtube clip on an internet discussion forum?

 

What year was Lindsay Lohan first admitted to rehab?

 

You are playing Call of Duty 4 Multiplayer and playing a map that has many opportunities for close range combat, you have an M5, AK-47, and M-14 available. Which one do you equip first?

 

Essay Question 1: Which bittorrent client do you prefer and why? Discuss the merits of your preferred client over other similar software.

 

In Spiderman 2 Peter Parker faces the maniacal Doctor Octopus. What is Doc Ock's real name?

 

Bud Light or Miller Light?

 

Give three meanings or examples of the word "pwn" in current usage.

 

You have a new DVD to watch, your best friend says that he's already seen it and it is "absolutely sick". Should you watch it or not?

 

List the four correct spellings of the word "teh"

 

Define A2M/GAPE

 

etc

 

 

Then they could release a study that says something like:

Survey Finds Researchers Retarded and Ghey

 

By Brandy Miller

 

Fewer than half of American researchers who were asked basic recent cultural, technology, and practical student life questions in a phone survey knew how to reset an iPOD without reading the manual and one in four didn't even know whether the latest nano had video capability according to a recent study conducted by the Young People for Researcher Education reform.

 

The survey results, released on Tuesday, demonstrate that a significant proportion of researchers live in

[Weathered]

I think it would be cool if for a change they let the kids do the study and then release their results. I can see


The survey questions:

Bwahahaha.