Why is "sag" a desirable feature in an amp?

[Mr. Brady]

Once you start playing some more lead, you'll like some sag. It's really just another way to express yourself on the instrument.

Amps that are really tight and dry limit that expressiveness and response to your playing that an amp with a bit of sag will give you. Of course, if you're playing fast tight metal rhythms, you don't want sag or your playing turns to mush.

I personally like how notes can smear and bloom to give that vocal quality to a lead that's not possible with a tight amp.

[petelaramee]

I prefer to have no sag and most people on this forum would not call what I play "metal." You can still have fast attack and have the note burn after the note is picked. I just don't want to have to wait to hear the note before I pick the next one.

[spoonie g]

No, marshall went higher power because Hendrix and Pete Townsend wanted louder amps. It's a 3db difference between 50 and 100watts, but 100watt marshalls put out more than 100watts. On average 120-150 watts depending on year. There is more than a 3db difference between any 50watt marshall model, and their vintage superleads.

 

 

Both are ridiculously loud. The difference is not negligible, to my ears. You're either LOUUD or LOUUUUD.

[spoonie g]

....and on the subject- a bit of sag makes it feel like it's "alive" to me. The amp is responding to my playing as I am responding to it and so on. Just about every tube amp has a relative amount of sag. Try playing a solid state amp in your typical playing enviroment (especially a band) and you'll see what I mean.

[guitarcapo]

Personally I DON'T like sag and usually remove the tube rectifier in my amps for solid state. I play electric by fingerpicking and need some of the snap back that you lose without using nails or a pick. I also like the amp to be quicker to respond when I use effects, which will sometimes slow things up and create some mush in the act of processing the signal.

AT any rate I'm pretty convinced that sag isn't BETTER...just different sounding.

[BornUnderBadSgn]

i don't mean to highjack the thread but does the Rockerverb 50 (with the dampening switch set to "low") have a lot of sag when compared to others? and does setting the dampening switch to high really tighten up the amp that much? i always set it to low and have no desire to tighten up the sound... im just wonder what others have to say from their experience...

i know it's suppose to compete with other high gain amps but it seems to be a hard sell on the metal crowd... is this because the RV50 tends to lack the tighness of other high gain amps?

[grayeyes777]

i don't mean to highjack the thread but does the Rockerverb 50 (with the dampening switch set to "low") have a lot of sag when compared to others? and does setting the dampening switch to high really tighten up the amp that much? i always set it to low and have no desire to tighten up the sound... im just wonder what others have to say from their experience... i know it's suppose to compete with other high gain amps but it seems to be a hard sell on the metal crowd... is this because the RV50 tends to lack the tighness of other high gain amps?

 

 

orange amps definitely sag a bit... and many boost them to tighten them up and give them a little more gain. I'm sure the dampening switch would tighten it up a bit as well.

[grayeyes777]

Of these three amps rank them in order of saginess: Randall rg100es Mrashall dsl50 Laney gh50l

 

 

I've never played a randall rg but from the clips it sounds like it has about the same response as the dsl. laney is probably the most crisp out of the 3 but 50 watters can be looser than their 100 watt counterparts sometimes.

[spoonie g]

 

I've never played a randall rg but from the clips it sounds like it has about the same response as the dsl. laney is probably the most crisp out of the 3 but 50 watters can be looser than their 100 watt counterparts sometimes.

 

 

The randall is solid-state.

[petejt]

Once you start playing some more lead, you'll like some sag. It's really just another way to express yourself on the instrument. Amps that are really tight and dry limit that expressiveness and response to your playing that an amp with a bit of sag will give you. Of course, if you're playing fast tight metal rhythms, you don't want sag or your playing turns to mush. I personally like how notes can smear and bloom to give that vocal quality to a lead that's not possible with a tight amp.

 

 

I guess you're right there about leads.

 

I find though if I use a bit of spring reverb, it helps "wet" the tone, so it has a bit of depth, and therefore not so dry. It helps things to ring out for leads.

I guess 'sag' does a similar thing (as you described).

 

 

I admit that I actually like some of the lead tones from Recto amps (eg. Devin Townsend). It's just that for rhythm tones, no matter how much they are modified/valves swapped/boosted they sound way too floppy for me.

[Uncle_Milton]

Some ppl like their toans like they like their tittes.

squirting milk and covered in hair?:love:

[Ed DeGenaro]

Some ppl like their toans like they like their tittes.

 

 

You bet...big and bouncy!

[grayeyes777]

The randall is solid-state.

 

 

it sounded like it responded just like a dsl. that's all i said... i know nothing about it.

[spoonie g]

it sounded like it responded just like a dsl. that's all i said... i know nothing about it.

 

 

hmmmm........

[Murmur1]

Ah, so I take it solid state = no sag

The Laney DOES seem to have a drier quality than the dsl.

[ICMBeeotch]

I just don't understand it. what's it all about?

these guys explain it better than i do:

http://www.mavenpeal.com/sag.html

[tlbonehead]

Ah, so I take it solid state = no sag The Laney DOES seem to have a drier quality than the dsl.

Not necessarily.

[spoonie g]

Not necessarily.

 

 

how many solid state amps do you know of that have sag?

[petejt]

these guys explain it better than i do: http://www.mavenpeal.com/sag.html

 

 

I don't really believe what they say, especially about playing dynamics.

 

 

My amp is renowned for being tight, yet is very touch-responsive. I prefer amps that are touch-responsive (I hate it when they just mush notes together). When I pick softly, the signal is "cooler" so is cleaner. When I dig in and pick very hard, the guitar screams with hot signal and I get a powerful distorted sustain.

[RhettHours]

i dont necessarily "look" for sag in amps...i look for the most accurate reproduction of what it is i'm actually playing, as i play it.

 

that being said...just PLAY the amps...don't NOT try and amp because you heard it was saggy or something. go in with the blind test and give the damn thing the pepsi challenge.

[grayeyes777]

how many solid state amps do you know of that have sag?

 

 

the article said that solid state rectifiers can add 5 to 15 percent sag. i don't know if that only works when coupled with a tube power section.

[corporealJigsor]

Ah, so I take it solid state = no sag The Laney DOES seem to have a drier quality than the dsl.

 

 

I dont agree with the common belief that solid state amps are always tighter/faster than tube amps, solid state amps definitely vary a lot.

 

I definitely dont agree that sag gives 'more' dynamic response. Yes it responds differently (and may suit your playing far better), but you can definitely get a responsive tight amp (which may suit someones playing style far better).

[grayeyes777]

I dont agree with the common belief that solid state amps are always tighter/faster than tube amps, solid state amps definitely vary a lot. I definitely dont agree that sag gives 'more' dynamic response. Yes it responds differently (and may suit your playing far better), but you can definitely get a responsive tight amp (which may suit someones playing style far better).

 

 

+1. sag doesn't equal better... just different.

[NixerX]

squirting milk and covered in hair? :love:

So you like custom covered boogies then?! lol

[petejt]

But couldn't you get "sag" by the picking technique? Just how you hit the string would affect how it rings out.