Members Ron Burgandy Posted June 16, 2009 Members Share Posted June 16, 2009 Just remember that if you buy a Hybrid you're screwing over the environment more than if you drive a Hummer H2. Look up the net energy equation with regards to hybrids vs. regular cars and learn something. Small turbo diesels are where it's at. Yup Proven, reliable, efficient technology vs. giant battery packs hooked up to little engines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members satannica Posted June 16, 2009 Members Share Posted June 16, 2009 making up another story eh Twat! You know full well I mean Toyota. Go ask em! I don't need to make jack up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Scott Fonseca Posted June 16, 2009 Members Share Posted June 16, 2009 Diesels destroy hybrids. At everything. This x1,000,000 If you want true efficiency, get a diesel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members satannica Posted June 16, 2009 Members Share Posted June 16, 2009 +1 on the diesel fiestas. GREAT little cars! Plenty punchy and great running costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Phishmonkey Posted June 16, 2009 Members Share Posted June 16, 2009 +1 on the diesel fiestas. GREAT little cars! Plenty punchy and great running costs. Eh, not in America. Diesel is more expensive than gas here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Uncle_Milton Posted June 16, 2009 Members Share Posted June 16, 2009 I spent the weekend in Albuquerque a little while ago. The rental was a Prius. I never really thought much about them before, but that was a really nice car. Hybrid stuff aside, it's really well designed and really easy and fun to drive. Addressing the hybrid part, we drove about 300 miles the whole weekend and only used $11 of gas. I really can't complain about that. I also accidentally took it off-roading down the back side of the Sandia Mountains. I was terrified I was going to break the thing, but it handled it pretty well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ron Burgandy Posted June 16, 2009 Members Share Posted June 16, 2009 Eh, not in America. Diesel is more expensive than gas here Hasn't been for a while down here in Dallas. Diesel has consistently been 20 cents cheaper per gallon for at least 6 months. Regardless, you need to look at it in cost per mile. My Dad drives a Diesel Benz that gets roughly 40mpg on the highway. It's a BIG ass car, has decent acceleration, fully loaded, and still gets great fuel mileage. The new VW Diesels are getting 40-50mpg as well. Better than the Prius. Even if Diesel was a bit more expensive, the additional mpg evens the playing field. On top of that, they're not loaded with batteries that are hyper expensive to replace, should they fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members starsnuffer Posted June 16, 2009 Members Share Posted June 16, 2009 Toyota had a diesel rav4 in the UK a few years back that gets around 60mpg or so. Stooopid american marketing people thought it would never sell here so they never did. Much more efficient then the hybrid and it doesn't leave piles of toxic sludge leftover from lithium mining or require 2 trans-pacific ocean voyages to make a battery for. -W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jerry_L Posted June 16, 2009 Members Share Posted June 16, 2009 I took my Escape off-road in Maine last year. Handled rough logging roads that shouldn't even be called roads with no problem. Still the best compromise if you need AWD and ABS. No foul exhaust like diesels have, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Scott Fonseca Posted June 16, 2009 Members Share Posted June 16, 2009 Hasn't been for a while down here in Dallas. Diesel has consistently been 20 cents cheaper per gallon for at least 6 months. Regardless, you need to look at it in cost per mile. My Dad drives a Diesel Benz that gets roughly 40mpg on the highway. It's a BIG ass car, has decent acceleration, fully loaded, and still gets great fuel mileage. The new VW Diesels are getting 40-50mpg as well. Better than the Prius. Even if Diesel was a bit more expensive, the additional mpg evens the playing field. On top of that, they're not loaded with batteries that are hyper expensive to replace, should they fail. Plus if you look at the amount of maintenance it takes to keep up a diesel vs gasoline, that also pushes diesel out ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members madryan Posted June 16, 2009 Members Share Posted June 16, 2009 Toyota had a diesel rav4 in the UK a few years back that gets around 60mpg or so. Stooopid american marketing people thought it would never sell here so they never did. Much more efficient then the hybrid and it doesn't leave piles of toxic sludge leftover from lithium mining or require 2 trans-pacific ocean voyages to make a battery for.-W It's really indicative of the entire problem with people in the US. Fundamentally they're idiots who don't actually seek truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ron Burgandy Posted June 16, 2009 Members Share Posted June 16, 2009 Plus if you look at the amount of maintenance it takes to keep up a diesel vs gasoline, that also pushes diesel out ahead. Due to the nature of how diesel engines work, they're incredibly reliable and extremely well built. Toyota's diesel line is amazing as well. Diesels have grown out of the old image of huge clouds of oily black smoke. New diesels are quiet, low emission, and pretty quick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Scott Fonseca Posted June 16, 2009 Members Share Posted June 16, 2009 Have you seen the new 335d that BMW is bringing over? DO WANT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pioneerprogress Posted June 16, 2009 Members Share Posted June 16, 2009 Diesel has been hovering within 10 cents above or below regular 87 octane around here...and while they are more expensive to do maintenance on, diesel engines really are a lot more reliable and last a lot longer than a gas engine. I wouldn't mind having one if they were more readily available. But, I'll stick with my Mustang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members madryan Posted June 16, 2009 Members Share Posted June 16, 2009 Due to the nature of how diesel engines work, they're incredibly reliable and extremely well built. Toyota's diesel line is amazing as well. Diesels have grown out of the old image of huge clouds of oily black smoke. New diesels are quiet, low emission, and pretty quick Not only that but diesel has a really high octane rating which means it doesn't "Explode" like gas, it burns slower and as such there's much less stress on the rods and crank. Plus, they don't run as hot so there's much less wear on the pistons and rings. Diesels pretty much run forever with minimal upkeep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Phishmonkey Posted June 16, 2009 Members Share Posted June 16, 2009 Hasn't been for a while down here in Dallas. Diesel has consistently been 20 cents cheaper per gallon for at least 6 months. Regardless, you need to look at it in cost per mile. My Dad drives a Diesel Benz that gets roughly 40mpg on the highway. It's a BIG ass car, has decent acceleration, fully loaded, and still gets great fuel mileage. The new VW Diesels are getting 40-50mpg as well. Better than the Prius. Even if Diesel was a bit more expensive, the additional mpg evens the playing field. On top of that, they're not loaded with batteries that are hyper expensive to replace, should they fail. Thats about the same mpg as the prius, and while the VW will get better highway mileage the Prius would come out on top for city driving thanks to regenerative breaking. The government also gives you cash and tax breaks for driving a hybrid. I'm not a big fan of hybrids since they're ugly as sin, largely hype, and the batteries are really expensive, but I'm not really sure about diesel either. Again, if this was Europe where they tax the hell out of gasoline it would make sense, but I doubt it they'll ever become popular here. Around here diesel is still more expensive than gas, and the difference was much bigger at the height of the gas price spike. I haven't done the math, but if prices continue to go up I'd imagine that fuel costs could eat up the money you saved by buying a 40-50 mpg vehicle pretty quickly. It may be that diesels are still the better choice, but I'm not totally convinced yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members starsnuffer Posted June 16, 2009 Members Share Posted June 16, 2009 Not only that but diesel has a really high octane rating which means it doesn't "Explode" like gas, it burns slower and as such there's much less stress on the rods and crank. Plus, they don't run as hot so there's much less wear on the pistons and rings. Diesels pretty much run forever with minimal upkeep. Eh, there isn't much octane in diesel. Gasoline is made up of mostly octane and heptane (8 and 7 carbon atoms per chain). Diesel is made from heavier hydrocarbons, and while there is some octane in it, it's mostly molecules between 8 and 24 carbon atoms long. That's what makes it more stable, not as explosive, and with a higher flash point. The plus of diesel is that most engines can run biofuels with no or little conversion, so if you really want to be a hippy you can make it run on your own body fat or some such. -W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Scott Fonseca Posted June 16, 2009 Members Share Posted June 16, 2009 Eh, there isn't much octane in diesel. Gasoline is made up of mostly octane and heptane (8 and 7 carbon atoms per chain). Diesel is made from heavier hydrocarbons, and while there is some octane in it, it's mostly molecules between 8 and 24 carbon atoms long. That's what makes it more stable, not as explosive, and with a higher flash point.The plus of diesel is that most engines can run biofuels with no or little conversion, so if you really want to be a hippy you can make it run on your own body fat or some such.-W +1 Most diesel sold in America has an octane rating of around 40. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members madryan Posted June 16, 2009 Members Share Posted June 16, 2009 Eh, there isn't much octane in diesel. Gasoline is made up of mostly octane and heptane (8 and 7 carbon atoms per chain). Diesel is made from heavier hydrocarbons, and while there is some octane in it, it's mostly molecules between 8 and 24 carbon atoms long. That's what makes it more stable, not as explosive, and with a higher flash point.The plus of diesel is that most engines can run biofuels with no or little conversion, so if you really want to be a hippy you can make it run on your own body fat or some such.-W Granted I never studied the chemical properties of each fuel. I did study the thermodynamic qualities of each engine type and Diesel is the clear winner. I was mistakenly under the impression that Octane rating was a measure of how explosively the fuel burned, rather than an actual chemical compound (I never took O-Chem... Didn't need it) I was trying to point out that Diesel is a more efficient fuel do to its tendency to burn slower, thus allowing engine designers to produce engines that produced more torque with almost no wear and tear to the internals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ron Burgandy Posted June 16, 2009 Members Share Posted June 16, 2009 Thats about the same mpg as the prius, and while the VW will get better highway mileage the Prius would come out on top for city driving thanks to regenerative breaking. The government also gives you cash and tax breaks for driving a hybrid. I'm not a big fan of hybrids since they're ugly as sin, largely hype, and the batteries are really expensive, but I'm not really sure about diesel either. Again, if this was Europe where they tax the hell out of gasoline it would make sense, but I doubt it they'll ever become popular here. Around here diesel is still more expensive than gas, and the difference was much bigger at the height of the gas price spike. I haven't done the math, but if prices continue to go up I'd imagine that fuel costs could eat up the money you saved by buying a 40-50 mpg vehicle pretty quickly. It may be that diesels are still the better choice, but I'm not totally convinced yet Explain that to Toyota who hocks it's entire diesel line across the rest of the world. Hybrids are a cluster{censored} of {censored} marketed to the American public as a fashion statement. "Oh go me!! I bought a Hybrid!!" Keep in mind that the Jetta TDI is quite a bit bigger than a Prius. If more car makers put diesels in their compact car lines, we'd see a lot more impressive numbers. Look at the Camry Hybrid. 33mpg city and 34mph highway. Not so impressive when you get outside of the tiny, plastic cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Scott Fonseca Posted June 16, 2009 Members Share Posted June 16, 2009 And you could get a BMW 335d Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ron Burgandy Posted June 16, 2009 Members Share Posted June 16, 2009 And you could get a BMW 335d {censored}, if we could get diesel BMWs here in the US, I would have dug into savings and dealt with the higher cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bluesboy Posted June 16, 2009 Author Members Share Posted June 16, 2009 wow, there's alot of heated discussion in this thread. You would think this is a thread about Agile's being better than Gibsons And out of all the responses, only two or three people have actually driven/owned a hybrid car. you can always count on HCAF for some entertainment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ron Burgandy Posted June 16, 2009 Members Share Posted June 16, 2009 wow, there's alot of heated discussion in this thread. You would think this is a thread about Agile's being better than Gibsons And out of all the responses, only two or three people have actually driven/owned a hybrid car. you can always count on HCAF for some entertainment There's a reason for that. Have fun with your upcoming Hybrid purchase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members flump Posted June 16, 2009 Members Share Posted June 16, 2009 Granted I never studied the chemical properties of each fuel. I did study the thermodynamic qualities of each engine type and Diesel is the clear winner. I was mistakenly under the impression that Octane rating was a measure of how explosively the fuel burned, rather than an actual chemical compound (I never took O-Chem... Didn't need it)I was trying to point out that Diesel is a more efficient fuel do to its tendency to burn slower, thus allowing engine designers to produce engines that produced more torque with almost no wear and tear to the internals. Diesel also has much more usable energy per volume than gasoline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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