Question To Songwriters: Do You Consider Yourself A Poet?

[Stackabones]

Brokers are 1,000 times more interesting and contribute way more to the world than poets. They understand more about how the world works too. A a Poem is Beautiful! Enlightening! Inspiring!! Enriching!!! Yawn. Money matters. People that find it dull tend to be the types that have just enough of it to be able to afford to care about pleasant - but generally useless - distractions like poetry...

We sat together at one summer's end,
That beautiful mild woman, your close friend,
And you and I, and talked of poetry.
I said, 'A line will take us hours maybe;
Yet if it does not seem a moment's thought,
Our stitching and unstitching has been naught.
Better go down upon your marrow-bones
And scrub a kitchen pavement, or break stones
Like an old pauper, in all kinds of weather;
For to articulate sweet sounds together
Is to work harder than all these, and yet
Be thought an idler by the noisy set
Of bankers, schoolmasters, and clergymen
The martyrs call the world.'

--from Adam's Curse, W.B. Yeats

[StreakerOfinsky]

Brokers are 1,000 times more interesting and contribute way more to the world than poets.

It would be odd, and, well, in my opinion, not very interesting, if we all found the same things interesting.

[SomeoneYouKnew]

Not to pick on poets. I love people that are brilliant with words. Songwriters. Authors. Even actual poets. Bukowski's my number one main man forever. That Emily Dickenson stuff is tight. But teenage hacks and amateurs have kinda ruined the every-day use of that word . And it's too bad too. Poetry was like the best ever stuff way back when. People were crazy about it like Avatar.

What a steaming pile of {censored} that statement is. Seriously, how self-righteous and pretentious does a person have to be to claim a word had been "ruined" by people using it in a perfectly acceptable way? People like you, Matximus, are the ones manufacturing any problems that exist.

Do you have the same ridiculous standards for a guitarist calling himself a guitarist that you have for poets? If some teenage kid learns a few dozen chords and a few tasty riffs and puts them together is he an egomaniac for calling himself a guitarist? Just because he isn't Eric Clapton, Steve Vai, or Al DiMeola, does that make him a hack?

There isn't an inordinately high threshold that needs to be met for a person to legitimately call himself a poet. If he writes poetry, he IS a poet. The same way someone who plays a guitar IS a guitarist. The same way someone who sings IS a singer. The same way someone who paints IS a painter.

Don't worry. I'm not foolish enough to believe you actually understood that. But others who read it likely will.

[imbuedblue]

As others have previously stated, I'm only a poet when I write poetry. When I'm writing lyrics, I'm a lyricist. Some of my lyrics may be poetic, but they are still songs lyrics and not poems.

[Lee Knight]

I see myself (my, I am dashing in my frilly shirt with the big chartreuse P on it, aren't I?) as a humble artisan. Quill in hand, wielded as weapon. Cultivating my emotions and highly developed musings into a refined art. The written word. My word.

I am...

Pompous Pretentious Poetman.

Bringing civilization to the thick and the dumb. My gift to the world is my word. My lovely word. Bow to me now, you simple masses, you sad illiterate losers.

My word is your salvation. Sincerely,

Pompous Pretentious Poetman.

[Matximus]

There isn't an inordinately high threshold that needs to be met for a person to legitimately call himself a poet. If he writes poetry, he IS a poet.

 

 

Dude!!! I read this one. And we're on the same page on this one too!

 

That's what I'm talking about precisely! No threshold. It doesn't mean squat. So anybody who brags about being a poet is a total assclown that deserves to be laughed out of town.

 

Now somebody says: "I'm a guitarist." Righteous! Let's jam. "I'm a broker." Dude, what's up with this recession? Is it really over?

 

"I'm a Poet!" Really? Uhm... That's great. Uh. So you write poetry. Neat. Your colleagues really, uhm, hit it out of the park with that one about the man from Nantucket. Classic stuff. I'm gonna go take a shot with that fun finance dude now.

 

I'm having a gas and being an ass - I know. But your kidding yourself if you're not mindful of the bad rap that the poetry craft has gotten through the years. And that's precisly because there's no threshold whatsoever for joining the club and everybody knows it so nobody's impressed. It's like the one art that people with absolutely no talent or skill can easily express themselves, usually with laughable results. The special kid clanging the triangle in music class? That's where poets stand in realm of popular art.

 

Even playing the guitar poorly takes a decent amount of commitment, understanding of the basic concepts, building dexterity in the hands and fingers.

 

Here are some words that aren't quite a story and not quite a letter but not quite a grocery list. And look - some of them rhyme there at the end. I'm a poet!!!

[SomeoneYouKnew]

I see myself (my, I am dashing in my frilly shirt with the big chartreuse P on it, aren't I?) as a humble artisan. Quill in hand, wielded as weapon. Cultivating my emotions and highly developed musings into a refined art. The written word. My word. I am... Pompous Pretentious Poetman. Bringing civilization to the thick and the dumb. My gift to the world is my word. My lovely word. Bow to me now, you simple masses, you sad illiterate losers. My word is your salvation. Sincerely, Pompous Pretentious Poetman.

Eloquent and incisive.

[Lee Knight]

That's the shirt!!!!

[Matximus]

So anybody who brags about being a poet is a total assclown that deserves to be laughed out of town.

 

 

I should qualify: There are two exceptions. 1) Andrew Dice Clay - those dirty nursery rhymes were dope. 2) Lee Knight. That's good stuff, there. If you're gonna be a poet you gotta own it baby. "I'm a Poetman" What the hell is that? "I write frilly-ass poetry and I'm damn proud of it!" Alright alrighty there Robert Frost... Here's a cold one!!!

[nuclear arsenal]

you know what's worse than those terrible {censored}ing poets you're railing against? your railing.

[BlueSteam]

Sure, why not? I write with the intention of putting my words to music, but I don't write with a certain melody or instrumentation in mind. After I've written a song and recorded it on the computer, then I'll open up my book of "poetry" and try to find something that fits the mood. At this point words need to be changed to make stuff fit sometimes and then a lyric is born I suppose.

Would I look at someone and tell them I'm a poet though? Never, I'm a thinker and a writer.

[StreakerOfinsky]

It's like the one art that people with absolutely no talent or skill can easily express themselves, usually with laughable results.

If you pick up a guitar and make noises with it, you're a guitarist. If you make sounds on some drums, you're a drummer. If you put some paint on a canvas, you're a painter, etc. The term itself doesn't denote that others have a favorable opinion of your work (although I do know people who have had favorable opinions of people, like Jandek, who produce at least some work that sounds like someone who picked up a guitar for the first time). So re this:

Even playing the guitar poorly takes a decent amount of commitment, understanding of the basic concepts, building dexterity in the hands and fingers.

No it doesn't. All it requires is making some sounds on a guitar.

[SomeoneYouKnew]

So anybody who brags about being a poet is a total assclown that deserves to be laughed out of town.

It's the bragging that makes a person an assclown. Not the fact that they identify their self as a guitarist, singer, musician, poet, or other artist.

 

 

 

"I'm a Poetman" What the hell is that? "I write frilly-ass poetry and I'm damn proud of it!" Alright alrighty there Robert Frost... Here's a cold one!!!

You forgot the "Pompous Pretentious" part.

 

What the hell is that? That was Lee Knight parodying your cranial-rectal insertion, regarding what a poet is.

[blue2blue]

StreakerOfinsky, this is something I'm really not interested in pursuing further in this forum. To settle this, let's just say that you win and I lose, or that we agree to disagree, or whatever terms you'll accept. It would be unfortunate for you to blow your cover just to go deeper into this topic or for us to continue to hijack this thread -- and, quite honestly, I've had quite enough of this issue in my own academic past. It's a rerun I've seen too many times.

Me, I'm a drop-out.

 

 

[Matximus]

Love the point by point rebuttal! I'm beginning to suspect you may be a... poet. And not only that. A sensitive poet. Maybe one with some legal training or something... Who knows.

And who said anything about authorities on what's acceptable poetry? Here's what I'm an authority on: Douchebags and assclownery.

Anyone who says "I'm a Poet" and is not 1) Repeating it in a mocking way after hearing it out of a douchebag assclown's mouth or 2) Is not Maya Angelou or 3) Gets touchy when someone points out that, you know, there's a lot of confusion about what that actually means anymore - and it ain't all good then:

Yup. I got your number. That's just the way it is.

And listen - I'm not ragging on poetry. Or poets. I actually like poetry. I've paid money for books of poetry. I've written hundreds of poems myself. Published em in the high school literary journal. The whole deal. And it's awful stuff. But whatever. It's all good. I'm speaking from a place of appreciation. But come on, poetry on its own is just ... I mean, it's a kind of a joke. The art form used to mean something - but then people like you decided that hey! There's no rules in art! There's no rules in poetry! It's all about personal expression! You can't do any wrong because it's all subjective!!! It's only opinions!!! Yawn. Now every hack that picks up a pen and rhymes dog with log thinks they're Walt Whitman.

[blue2blue]

Originally Posted by Matximus Brokers are 1,000 times more interesting and contribute way more to the world than poets. They understand more about how the world works too. A a Poem is Beautiful! Enlightening! Inspiring!! Enriching!!! Yawn. Money matters. People that find it dull tend to be the types that have just enough of it to be able to afford to care about pleasant - but generally useless - distractions like poetry... We sat together at one summer's end, That beautiful mild woman, your close friend, And you and I, and talked of poetry. I said, 'A line will take us hours maybe; Yet if it does not seem a moment's thought, Our stitching and unstitching has been naught. Better go down upon your marrow-bones And scrub a kitchen pavement, or break stones Like an old pauper, in all kinds of weather; For to articulate sweet sounds together Is to work harder than all these, and yet Be thought an idler by the noisy set Of bankers, schoolmasters, and clergymen The martyrs call the world.'   --from Adam's Curse, W.B. Yeats

Thesis. Antithesis.

 

Synthesis...?

 

http://www.poeticdiversity.org/main/poets2.php?nameCode=poet-brokerrosenthal

 

Poet-broker Rosenthal art by tatiana tulskaya Ed Rosenthal, Poet-broker, is a poet and real estate broker in downtown Los Angeles, who writes poetry about real estate . He has been published in the Los Angeles Times , Wall Street Journal , the California Real Estate Journal , and Urban Land Magazine . He runs a Poet Walk Along for the Downtown Artwalk on second Thursdays of the Month.

[bold added]

 

 

 

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As the forum mod, I must say that perhaps I should have paid more attention to what I had assumed was still a pretty civil discussion of what might seem like arbitrary distinctions to some and artificial constructs to others ( ) and, though I haven't caught up all the way, mostly it looks like it's been a lively if at times contentious exchange of ideas fully-baked and otherwise.

 

But I do note that our pal nuclear arsenal recently got temporarily silenced by an administrator (not me) for offenses I can only imagine. Unlike a post that I as forum mod have deleted, because of the system used here, I can't see the presumably offending posts. But I note that most of his last posts before getting temporarily silenced (a new one on me) were here in the SW forum and in this thread.

 

 

So, let's just remember to keep things collegial here. I think there are some great rants in this thread, highly entertaining and plenty to think about, all around. (Although it does seem that the artificial constructs of ego and self-identity might just have got their whispy, phantomic selves intertwined in some of the discussion... )

 

But, whether we're all real or imagined, and whatever reality there may be in distinctions between poetry and songwriting and brokering, let's remember one crucial element of this artificial construct: we are all colleagues in the greater adventure of songwriting (however one defines or refuses to define it), so let's try to err on the side of acting like colleagues.

 

Or, to paraphrase the Sage of South Central, Please, people, we can all get along.

 

Li'l doggies.

 

 

 

PS... I like that Yeats bit.

[SomeoneYouKnew]

Sure, why not? I write with the intention of putting my words to music , but I don't write with a certain melody or instrumentation in mind. After I've written a song and recorded it on the computer, then I'll open up my book of "poetry" and try to find something that fits the mood. At this point words need to be changed to make stuff fit sometimes and then a lyric is born I suppose. Would I look at someone and tell them I'm a poet though? Never, I'm a thinker and a writer.

There is only one thing that separates you from being a poet. The end product of your work is lyrics for songs. So it's accurate to describe yourself as a lyricist or songwriter.

 

If you presented your writing as stand-alone from music, intending it to be read or spoken, you would be a poet.

 

Poets and songwriters are not mutually exclusive. There is an overlap between sets. Some poets also write songs. Some songwriters also write poetry.

 

Poetry and songs are not mutually exclusive. Some poems can be put to music and become songs. Some lyrics can stand alone, apart from the music they were intended to be married with and function as poems.

[SomeoneYouKnew]

And listen - I'm not ragging on poetry. Or poets.

Don't piss on my shoes and tell me it's raining.

Earlier in this post you called poetry on it's own a "joke".

 

 

You under the false assumption that to identify yourself a poet, you have to among the elite. Else you're a "douchebag" or an "egomaniac". Such is not the case.

 

If you play a guitar, you are a guitarist.

If you create or perform music, you are a musician.

If you sing, you are a singer.

If you paint, you are a painter.

If you write poems, you are a poet.

 

It's that {censored}ing simple.

[nuclear arsenal]

oh, i got kicked from the political forum for a week for flipping out on a racist idiot. then i chewed out anderton via pm and have decided not to head back over there. a lot of my posts since getting back have been here, but not a lot from before then, except a year ago, when i got kicked by baldie mcdouchenozzle for taking a bunch of mescaline and making like 300 posts over in the effects forum one night. it was a short ban, but i didn't come back for about a year. i have no idea what that has to do with this thread, though.

[blue2blue]

I feel the heavy hand of the moderator coming on, here.

 

Duck.