Question To Songwriters: Do You Consider Yourself A Poet?

[bogey_j]

do you consider yourself a writer first and a [rock] singer second?

 

would you ever consider publishing a book based on your poems/lyrics?

 

do you seriously consider yourself a poet?

[Sean_Casto]

I would say I tend to have poetic thoughts. More often then not, It just depends on what mood I am in as to whether or not I am writing "poetry" or a song.. That being said, I believe all songs if written correctly should indeed be forms of poetry..

 

That is, unless they are just slopped together as a form of useless thoughts, you know.

[davesacre]

No. Even if I wrote poems, I would not consider myself a poet. I play musical instruments, but do not consider myself a musician. If I start to make money from this, then maybe I will consider it.

[blue2blue]

I started out in poetry, although it's fairly rare that I write much of it these days. Although the other day I was thinking I ought to start again. As an artist gets older, there's probably more of a market for his poetry books, tell-alls, and paintings...

 

 

I had my moments as a poet but I never gained much maturity in that endeavor...

 

 

 

When I was writing this post (apparently more than 4 hours ago), I decided it would be fun to throw together a super quick vid (famous last words) using a recorded version of the poem I had from the late 90s that featured my pal Jeff Turmes* on a particularly haunted (tormented?) saxophone part. It's pretty purple stuff... written more or less in voice. But I've always had a soft spot for the poem, anyhow... I think the slide show-cum-video turned out pretty nicely, considering its net-scavenger origins (photos of doll's eyes, in and out of dolls, processed to give them an anime look).

 

[possibly distrubing subject and/or imagery]

 

w-Hil-CDRFw

 

I fall into her hollow eyes

like the little boy

who drowned in the pond when I was a kid

The water dead and flat

I wouldn't have found him

if it hadn't been for the grey bloated hand

the knuckles barely scraping the surface

 

I fall into her hollow eyes

like falling down a bottomless empty well

an endless silent scream frozen forever

in the moment of waking that never ever comes

 

I fall into her hollow eyes

as she fumbles for a cigarette

in the faded dirty flannel

The dull black circles of her pupils never change

as she lights up and pulls the smoke in deep

her cheeks pulling in where back teeth should have been

 

For a moment her eyes jitter

her eyelids flutter

and the faintest smile

in the history of the world

passes like the shadow of an angel

or a demon

across her gray lips

 

©1991, TK Major

 

 

*Jeff's hot right now, maybe some of his mojo will rub off on me! He's out on tour (on bass) with Mavis Staples and Jeff Tweedy, along with semi-legendary Long Beach drummer Steve Hodges and fine veteran guitarist Rick Holstrom.

[Stackabones]

When I write poems, I'm a poet (and I've been published in Light, The Lyric and some other places that probably don't begin with the letter "L" as well as appearing in one anthology ). My MA is generally in English Lit, but specifically poetry.

 

When I write songs, I'm a songwriter (and remain unlettered & obscure).

[StreakerOfinsky]

I have no problem with anyone considering lyrics poetry, although I do not typically think of them way. I have written some poetry, although not much of it, and my approach is different when I'm doing that rather than writing lyrics.

 

Anyway, I do consider myself a writer, but not of poetry, since I do not write that very often. I write music, lyrics, fiction, non-fiction, scripts, etc. I wouldn't say that I consider myself anything "before" anything else.

[Marshal]

No

 

A song is a song, not a poem. They share many linguistic characteristics. But a song is a pretty specific animal (different than a poem). I wrote some poetry as a ute. And a couple of my lyrics have leaned towards poetry. But they work better (are completed) with music.

 

Might be fun to try some poetry, though.

[Stackabones]

 

A song is a song, not a poem.

 

 

When a composer like Schubert or Faur

[Stackabones]

Just a note, poetry has three general categories: dramatic, narrative, and lyric. To claim that lyrics aren't poetry is odd. The quality of the lyrics do not matter. They do not have to rise to level of poetry or be poetic in order for them to be poetry. Good poetry is poetry; bad poetry is still poetry. Spend a little time reading poetry and you'll quickly realize that many poems are not poetic at all.

[Temple of Light]

I consider myself more of a rhythymtist of rhyme...which I dont think is similiar...I use specific syllable counts and rhyming words in my ehhh, poetry... and it has less to do with actual meaning/context and more to do with abstraction...more like phraseology...and the structure of musical composition:

in other words generating words for the rhythym and structure of any given work...

[grace_slick]

Not in the slightest. I am SO not poetic. At all.

[Temple of Light]

I think Hetfield is a true poet: his lyrics seem to come first and guitarring is just there for impact...

[LeonardScaper]

 

I fall into her hollow eyes

 

 

Dark purple.....great sax!

 

And, regarding poetry......

 

I am no poet

Neither rhyme nor reason reside in me

My lyrics come from somewhere else

On the wings of a melody

[blue2blue]

Yeah, I love that sax.

 

And it is pretty dark. I actually just went back and put a content warning above the 'vid' and poem. I had a pretty violent reaction to it when I was writing it, too -- but it was that the protagonist was a kid when the central incident happened... finding an adult wouldn't be the same, you know? Had to be someone the protagonist would identify with, like looking in the wrong mirror.

[StreakerOfinsky]

Nothing is a song if we're not talking about music, by the way--just lyrics alone are not a song, and it's not necessary for songs to have lyrics.

[Marshal]

When a composer like Schubert or Faur

[Marshal]

 

Nothing is a song if we're not talking about music, by the way--just lyrics alone are not a song, and it's not necessary for songs to have lyrics.

 

 

Interesting. Personally my preferences are to call instrumental music something other than song. I find the communication in them ambiguous. Most times i have no clue as to what inspired them; other than to read the title. (And isn't that a lyric of sorts?).

 

I have a friend that is a great instrumentalist. He wrote a great instrumental piece. Shortly after he had completed it, a friend died suddenly. So he renamed the song and dedicated it to her. And that's the way he performs it.

 

But in my simple mind, that's almost sacrilegious. The song was not in any way inspired by the person.

 

Instrumental music is like that. To me it could be about anything. There's no sense of story. There's no sense of revelation. There's no sense of communication. I'm sure I'm just jaded. I think of instrumental music as a beautiful backdrop to whatever else I'm doing at the moment.

[Stackabones]

 

Poetry is a much freer form of expression than a song.

 

 

How can one art form have a greater freedom expression than another? Does dramatic poetry allow for more freedom of expression than narrative poetry? Does landscape painting have more freedom of expression than portraiture?

 

Perhaps this would be true were we to define one too narrowly while defining the other too broadly.

[Stackabones]

 

Nothing is a song if we're not talking about music, by the way--just lyrics alone are not a song, and it's not necessary for songs to have lyrics.

 

 

What do with something like the Psalms? These were originally songs, yet many just read them as lyrics.

 

Mendelssohn's Songs Without Words notwithstanding, the idea of a such a thing is purely Romantic-era marketing sprung out of Mendelssohn's brain. He originally called them "Original Melodies for the Pianoforte" till he happened upon the snappier title and the rest is a history of confusion concerning song.

[blue2blue]

How can one art form have a greater freedom expression than another? Does dramatic poetry allow for more freedom of expression than narrative poetry? Does landscape painting have more freedom of expression than portraiture? Perhaps this would be true were we to define one too narrowly while defining the other too broadly.

I suspect what he meant was that there have often -- particularly in the last century and a half -- been less formalist restraints applied to the craft of unaccompanied verse -- although when I was coming up in the 60s, there were more than a few folks who made the semantic argument that free verse was a contradiction in terms. The dictionaries seem to be far more inclusive.

[Stackabones]

I susped what he meant was that there have often -- particularly in the last century and a half -- been less formalist restraints applied to the craft of unaccompanied verse -- although when I was coming up in the 60s, there were more than a few folks who made the semantic argument that free verse was a contradiction in terms. The dictionaries seem to be far more inclusive.

 

Maybe.

 

But even music (even pop oh my gosh) has less formal constraints in aleatoric or chance operations and the use of "unconventional" harmonies. Though it doesn't sound that way, serial music has very restrictive formal elements.

 

One of the other unfortunate aspects of free verse is that "free" has been a given political & creative connotation. A poet who believes that a sonnet is more restrictive than free verse is a poet who needs to hone his humility and hush his hubris -- a little craft goes a long way. And a broader reading of poetry throughout the ages would be advisable and commendable to such a benighted poet.

[AgingPicker]

 

singer second? would you ever consider publishing a book based on your poems/lyrics? do you seriously consider yourself a poet?

 

Now that you mention it, I did write poems long before I started writing songs. When I started playing the guitar, those poems soon evolved into songs.

[Matximus]

No. Absolutely not. Poems are meant to be read. Songs are meant to be sung. It's two totally different things. Poems to songwriting is like pictures to film. Film directors have to understand how to frame a picture. A film is just a bunch of pictures moving really fast. But film is an entirely different art from photography. Songwriters should understand poetry. But it's totally different.

[blue2blue]

Maybe. But even music (even pop oh my gosh) has less formal constraints in aleatoric or chance operations and the use of "unconventional" harmonies. Though it doesn't sound that way, serial music has very restrictive formal elements. One of the other unfortunate aspects of free verse is that "free" has been a given political & creative connotation. A poet who believes that a sonnet is more restrictive than free verse is a poet who needs to hone his humility and hush his hubris -- a little craft goes a long way. And a broader reading of poetry throughout the ages would be advisable and commendable to such a benighted poet.

[bold added]

 

 

 

[StreakerOfinsky]

You're not a big jazz fan I take it, Marshal?