Members New Trail Posted September 17, 2011 Members Share Posted September 17, 2011 ........your bandmates come up with? Do you just bite your tongue and live with it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Chicken Monkey Posted September 17, 2011 Members Share Posted September 17, 2011 Did they hear your parts (like on a demo) before coming up with their own? If so, I'll assume they like their parts better (and aren't just suffering from a lack of creativity). Then you're stuck. Making music is like having sex--it's only going to happen if all involved parties can expect to have a good time, UNLESS one is paying the other(s). If you go looking to join an original band, you're looking to do something creative, and aping something that someone else came up with is just like being in a cover band, with a few notable exceptions: The music probably isn't as goodThe pay isn't as goodThe ladies aren't as interestedThe gigs are in crappier placesNot many people come to the shows So, unless your songs are good enough to generate salaries for these guys, or at least get them laid, there really isn't a lot of incentive to play the songs unless they at least get to have a hand in the creative process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gubu Posted September 17, 2011 Members Share Posted September 17, 2011 You pretty much have to bite your tongue. I'd echo Chicken Monkey here. If you're not paying them (to do what they're told), then it's a joint creative effort and once you share your material with the band, you have to live with whatever they want to do with it, individually and collectively. That's not to say that you shouldn't argue your case strongly when the band is coming up with ideas that are completely contrary to the aesthetic and impetus of your songs. But, you have to be able to live with other people's strong creative drives when you allow your material to be used in this way. When I've been involved with bands, I've tended to have a list of songs that the band definitely aren't going to be allowed to touch. I keep those songs to one side and the band never hears them. So, it becomes a judgement call from song to song on whether I'm happy to have it tinkered with by my bandmates. And, songs that you keep from one band can really work with a different band so the list keeps changing.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ido1957 Posted September 17, 2011 Members Share Posted September 17, 2011 This is where friendship and creativity clash. Good luck... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rsadasiv Posted September 17, 2011 Members Share Posted September 17, 2011 Unless the song doesn't work without your part you have to bite your tongue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LeonardScaper Posted September 17, 2011 Members Share Posted September 17, 2011 unless your songs are good enough to generate salaries for these guys, or at least get them laid, there really isn't a lot of incentive to play the songs unless they at least get to have a hand in the creative process. Yep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators davie Posted September 17, 2011 Moderators Share Posted September 17, 2011 Better in what way? Better in who's opinion? "Better" can be subjective as well. If the songs are great then they're great. There's a lot of successful bands out there that have either a principle songwriter or a strong band chemistry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted September 17, 2011 Moderators Share Posted September 17, 2011 ...or at least get them laid, there really isn't a lot of incentive to play the songs unless they at least get to have a hand in the creative process. BTW, I expect to get laid for contributing to this thread! But hey! I'm not so sure I go with "there really isn't a lot of incentive to play the songs unless they at least get to have a hand in the creative process" as it was intended. Or maybe just maybe a little understated. I do think band members should contribute, not just for their sense of belonging to the proceedings, but for the betterment of the piece. But... at times, there are parts that make the song tick. We owe it to the work to find a way to get it across. We all know what I'm saying here. And that, like anything else, is a learned skill. It's tough to remove our ego enough to know what's best for the music at hand. We might be the most ego-less son of a bitch we've ever met, and still find our ugly ego getting in the way of realizing a song. This goes for the writer and the player. So... ...for the sake of maintaining relationships that behoove you to do so, you need to find a way to convey why a certain part is right, and at the end of teh day, let it go if you fail at getting through. It's all a teeter-totter but the important thing is the realization of a piece of music. More important, keeping a working situation working, be it monetarily or artistically. Nose to spite your face and all that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NeverTheMachine Posted September 18, 2011 Members Share Posted September 18, 2011 Depends .. With all due respect to those telling him to bite his tongue, you're wrong. If it's a song creation it doesn't matter what it's making in a market, you've got to fight for what you think is best for a song ... and if it's a song you started and you have a track record for finishing then by all means you've got to take the bull by the horn. Democracy is good in a band, but that should be thrown out the window at the creative process. People have to just be honest and objective with themselves. Most successful bands ..... check that, most bands with good songs have one or two guys taking the lead, preferably one ... and it can vary from song to song. I take it we're talking from one guitar player to another? If you're a multi-instrumentalist who is great at every instrument, but just so happen to just be the guitar player, you shouldn't be telling the bassist, drummer or especially vocalist what to play or sing. Constructive criticism and guidance yes, but dictating, no. If we're dealing with {censored}ty music here, honesty and objectivity is needed again and by all means, bite your tongue and just have fun. BUt, if you honestly believe you have a good song on your hands, that song will outlast the musical relationship with your friend, or you yourself if you're lucky. Sorry to take it that far, but I think "songs" are important things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MyEmergency Posted September 18, 2011 Members Share Posted September 18, 2011 Whenever this situation arises in my band we pretty much compromise but on different songs. So basically the other guitar player will agree to the play the parts I wrote for the song and I will agree will do the same on another song. Sometimes when you write a song you don't want it changed, you took the time to write all the parts and had a vision for exactly how you wanted it to be put together and sometimes compromising it makes it less than it was. There have been times where I have disagreed with the other guitar player in the band enough to where we have thrown out whole songs since one or both of us wanted different things for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Surrealistic Posted September 18, 2011 Members Share Posted September 18, 2011 ... you shouldn't be telling the bassist, drummer or especially vocalist what to play or sing. Constructive criticism and guidance yes, but dictating, no. Sorry, couldn't resist. I'm with the tongue-biters here, at least up to a point. I think one of the reasons to have a band at all is that they can contribute something that you wouldn't have come up with yourself. Otherwise (at least for recording) you might as well do it all yourself. The difficult bit is getting the right people, where the chemistry between you is right. If it really isn't working then there isn't much you can do except look for new people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members oldgitplayer Posted September 18, 2011 Members Share Posted September 18, 2011 When I work on arrangements with other musicians (which is seldom), we seem to all know to leave the ego outside the room. Fortunately, we know that it's not about us - it's about the song. We'll try different contributions with the H1 running, and the solution is self-evident when we play it back.It might be an age thing. We're probably just past playing the 'I thought of it - so it must be good' game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted September 18, 2011 Moderators Share Posted September 18, 2011 I'm lucky I guess.. I always seem to work with guys who share the same sensibilities. And are, for the most part, low on ego. So the best idea wins. If the writer has gone to the trouble of working out parts and they're making the song tick, the guys I work with tend to look at it as gift. I know I do. I've got enough writing to do. Cool, I get to play this part. If the player can improve upon the part, the writer and the rest of the guys agree, by and large, what's better and what's worse. It's more a matter of trying things, sometimes a lot of things, and picking the best part. The one that serves the song. Good is obvious. Luckily, it's been a long time since I've played with an ego driven player. My guys teed to song guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members New Trail Posted September 19, 2011 Author Members Share Posted September 19, 2011 .... If the writer has gone to the trouble of working out parts and they're making the song tick, the guys I work with tend to look at it as gift. ..... That's basically what the other guitarist in the band told me, as well. He said that he appreciates it when I write a part for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhino55 Posted September 19, 2011 Members Share Posted September 19, 2011 Did they hear your parts (like on a demo) before coming up with their own? If so, I'll assume they like their parts better (and aren't just suffering from a lack of creativity). Then you're stuck. Making music is like having sex--it's only going to happen if all involved parties can expect to have a good time, UNLESS one is paying the other(s). If you go looking to join an original band, you're looking to do something creative, and aping something that someone else came up with is just like being in a cover band, with a few notable exceptions:The music probably isn't as goodThe pay isn't as goodThe ladies aren't as interestedThe gigs are in crappier placesNot many people come to the showsSo, unless your songs are good enough to generate salaries for these guys, or at least get them laid, there really isn't a lot of incentive to play the songs unless they at least get to have a hand in the creative process. Truth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Chicken Monkey Posted September 19, 2011 Members Share Posted September 19, 2011 No, I haven't done demos, but that's a good idea. It got to beat trying to explain something verbally. Oh, jeez, yeah. You're just trying to show them what you want them to do note-for-note? That's like trying to learn the lyrics syllable by syllable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rsadasiv Posted September 19, 2011 Members Share Posted September 19, 2011 Truth Gas, grass or ass - nobody rides for free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members New Trail Posted September 19, 2011 Author Members Share Posted September 19, 2011 Oh, jeez, yeah. You're just trying to show them what you want them to do note-for-note? That's like trying to learn the lyrics syllable by syllable. Well, yeah, that's true, it's kinda been like I work in progress, really. I think on my next few songs I'm going to have the parts written out (or recorded) for most everything and see how that goes. I asked the keyboard player to play something (off-the-cuff) on a song intro and he really couldn't or wouldn't attempt anything at practice. (BTW I know if I asked the lead player to play something in a song intro he could play SOMETHING!) Anyway, I think the keyboardist is going to write a part at home for that particular intro. I'm interested to see what he comes up with. I honestly hope it's great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.