WOT: Motorcycle Guys...

[ComingApart]

I'll just about guarantee she couldn't pick that thing up if it fell over, which, if that's the case, is a pretty good indication that she's not physically strong enough to move the bike around when body weight and strength counts.

 

 

Just don't drop it:cop:

 

You think all these weekend douchebag types on their bagged and fairing'ed out geezer glides can pick them up if they drop them? Of course not, doens't stop them from buying 'em though.

[EdgeOfDarkness]

Huh? While I'm not a fan of Sportsters, calling them a bad choice is a bit much. {censored} handling? Have you ever ridden a 1200 Sportster? ({censored} the 883, it's a lame dog) It'll out-handle the {censored} out of any softail model HD makes. As far as the weight distribution, which way do you mean? Other than the RHD, and smaller frame, the layout is almost exactly like the Dyna series.

 

 

Top heavy .

[ComingApart]

Top heavy .

 

 

Maybe the old ones, I don't know.

 

I've ridden the Nightster and Forty Eight, both are pretty low slung and handle excellently.

 

I ended up getting a Dyna, but if was a smaller guy, I would most likely be on a Forty Eight myself.

 

I started on a Vulcan, THAT was a top heavy cruiser.

[silverfacechamp]

Huh? While I'm not a fan of Sportsters, calling them a bad choice is a bit much. {censored} handling? Have you ever ridden a 1200 Sportster? ({censored} the 883, it's a lame dog) It'll out-handle the {censored} out of any softail model HD makes. As far as the weight distribution, which way do you mean? Other than the RHD, and smaller frame, the layout is almost exactly like the Dyna series.

 

 

The new sportsters are the best bikes HD has ever made. Anybody that says any different doesn't know bikes. That said, I still wouldn't own one just for the douchebag factor alone.

[silverfacechamp]

Just don't drop it:cop: You think all these weekend douchebag types on their bagged and fairing'ed out geezer glides can pick them up if they drop them? Of course not, doens't stop them from buying 'em though.

 

 

lulz. I also maintain that 90% of HD riders are far more dangerous in tight situations that even new sports bike riders simply for this reason...they can't handle their equipment.

[Slim Jim]

See, now this is all very interesting to me.

I for some reason or other have a soft spot for HD's.

Not so much the sportster series.

I like the dyna lowglide I think its called, based on pure looks alone.

 

Oh I should've mentioned I'm a complete n00b when it comes to bikes.

I just go on looks alone

[ThrashensteiN]

Are the Harley Iron 883s good first bikes?

[John Backlund]

Are the Harley Iron 883s good first bikes?

 

 

Sort of.

 

There's just no point in buying an 883 Sportster if you can at all afford the 1200cc version. They basically share the same exact rolling chassis with one having maybe 15-20 hp more than the other, and considering that an 883 Sportster can barely manage to get out of it's own way, that 'extra' horseower of the 1200 only means that it is 'usefully' powerful by comparison.

 

It's just as easy (or hard) to pick up a fallen 1200 Sportster as it is an 883, they are literally the same bike physically.

 

The 1200 can at least travel an interstate highway without splitting a gut doing it, the 883 is another matter...throw in a headwind, passenger, or long upgrade and the 883 will be wheezing to just maintain the speed limit.

 

I'm only talking about the later rubber-mounted engined Sportsters, the older ones are true American classic motorcycles, but IMO, are just miserable bone-shakers.

 

I've ridden perhaps ten Sportsters of various types, have never owned one and probably never will, but I find that I generally like them more than the larger HD's.

[dougsthang]

lulz. I also maintain that 90% of HD riders are far more dangerous in tight situations that even new sports bike riders simply for this reason...they can't handle their equipment.

 

 

Maybe where you ride that ratio might be accurate, out here in So Cal that ratio is more like 20%. In reality the biggest problem is sportbike rider who ride way beyond there skill level. Also pull the most jackass manuevers I see.

 

Take a rider safety course and learn to ride the right way. It was said before but it's worth saying again. Act as if every car around you is going to pull into your lane, never day dream and always pay attention to everything going on around you.

[Harvest]

Huh? While I'm not a fan of Sportsters, calling them a bad choice is a bit much. {censored} handling? Have you ever ridden a 1200 Sportster? ({censored} the 883, it's a lame dog) It'll out-handle the {censored} out of any softail model HD makes...

...which handle worse than any other production motorcycle on the market...
except MAYBE the OCC/Big Dog/etc. bikes.


Here's my take.
If you're 5'8" and 125 pounds, you don't want a 600+ lb top-heavy Harley, or any other big bore cruiser. If it's too heavy and intimidating, you're not going to want to ride it... especially if you tip it in your driveway and can't pick it up again

If you don't want a true-blue sportbike, that's fine too. They're intimidating in a different way. And it takes restraint, concentration and skill to ride something that's faster than any car on the road this side of a Veyron (Actually a 1000cc sportbike will beat the Veyron in a 1/4 mile, although the Bugatti is just getting started there of course)


IMO, you should look at something like a SV650, GS500, Ninja 650 (parallel twin) Ninja 500, etc. "Standard bikes". These can kind of *look* like a sportbike, but they're really not. You sit basically straight up and down, your feet are right underneath you when you're riding, and the engines are usually detuned previous-gen sportbike engines, retuned for more low end torque than maximum top-end. These generally have pretty good performance though, good solid brakes... a decent amount of power. They'll be comfortable enough for longer trips, but not clunky and awkward like something with big highway pegs & ape-hangers.

[superflyinmonke]

I would like to suggest a 900 Classic Kawasaki. They're so nice and not too much coin. I have a 1600 Vulcan Mean Streak and it is sweet as hell.

[Olympus]

Come to a sudden stop in a curve with the bars slightly turned on a Heritage, Road King, or Street Glide and at 5' 8" and 125lbs I have a hard time believing you'll be able to keep the bike from falling in the direction you're turning. Do the same thing on a 250 and you'll be able to use physical strength to keep it from falling. With a smaller bike and not going through a rider's safety course you'll pick up a lot of bad habits. Not a big deal if you always stay with the smaller bikes. But if you ever do move up to a bigger bike, you'll need to know proper technique to keep from dumping. Dump a big bike and you're looking at some serious cash to fix everything. Not to mention having a harder time picking up the bike and potentiall getting hurt.

Don't buy too small and yes, buy with a little growing room. But use some common sense with that statement. I'm not saying make your first bike a Gold Wing or Ultra Classic! If you're thinking about a 600/650, I would recommend bumping it up to a 800/850. If you're thinking 800/850 then I would say consider 1100/1200s.

There's not one perfect starter bike. Thousands of new riders a year start out on Harley Sportsters, Viragos, Shadows, V-Stars, etc. Find the one that feels the most comfortable for you. Spend some time have it set up to your body. Leave a little growing room. Buy what you want and forget what everybody else says. You'll be the one riding it, not them. Take everything you hear with a grain of salt. There comes a point with bikes when it turns into a "Chevy vs Ford" debate. Use the information to find out which models and which years were more prone to 'X' problems, things like that. Then make your decisions.

I like a water-cooled bike a lot more than an air-cooled, even though I ride an air-cooled right now. Especially if you plan on doing a lot of start and stop city riding. It's a little harder to keep an air-cooled bike's temp down when you're driving at slower speeds and doing a lot of driving in traffic lights and start and stop traffic. You won't have to worry about this on a water-cooled bike.

As for the sport bike vs cruiser comparison, a lot of people have already made very good points about the two. It's kind of like a sports car vs sedan comparison. One is not any better than the other. It just depends on your preference and what you want out of the bike.

[jenksdrummer]

I'll just about guarantee she couldn't pick that thing up if it fell over, which, if that's the case, is a pretty good indication that she's not physically strong enough to move the bike around when body weight and strength counts. I watched some stupid ass woman tip over a brand new...less than 50 miles on it...HD Dyna wide at a stoplight in Tulsa once. I got out an helped her pick it up...no way she could've done it by herself. She got it as her first motorcycle. Major recipe for disaster. Also, the HD's, no matter how inexpensive they get, won't ever be as affordable as a used import. The XL's are decent bikes, and for the most part HD has solved a lot of their reliability issues, but I simply wouldn't own one. To each their own.

 

 

Picking up a dropped bike is all about leverage...

[jenksdrummer]

I started on a Vulcan, THAT was a top heavy cruiser.

 

 

Yes. the Honda VTX 1800 is fairly top-heavy as well.

[Olympus]

Picking up a dropped bike is all about leverage...

 

 

Agreed. You need to learn the proper technique. I know a Honda demo rider who puts on demo about how easy it is to pick up a Gold Wing that has been dumped. It's a woman...

[silverfacechamp]

Picking up a dropped bike is all about leverage...

 

 

If it falls over in an intersection in traffic, a 120 pound woman (or man for that matter) generally doesn't have the physical strength to pick up an 800lb bike. Period. Most people don't carry around 10 foot long pieces of wood and a pulley system.

[jenksdrummer]

Come to a sudden stop in a curve with the bars slightly turned on a Heritage, Road King, or Street Glide and at 5' 8" and 125lbs I have a hard time believing you'll be able to keep the bike from falling in the direction you're turning. Do the same thing on a 250 and you'll be able to use physical strength to keep it from falling. With a smaller bike and not going through a rider's safety course you'll pick up a lot of bad habits. Not a big deal if you always stay with the smaller bikes. But if you ever do move up to a bigger bike, you'll need to know proper technique to keep from dumping. Dump a big bike and you're looking at some serious cash to fix everything. Not to mention having a harder time picking up the bike and potentiall getting hurt. Don't buy too small and yes , buy with a little growing room. But use some common sense with that statement. I'm not saying make your first bike a Gold Wing or Ultra Classic! If you're thinking about a 600/650, I would recommend bumping it up to a 800/850. If you're thinking 800/850 then I would say consider 1100/1200s. There's not one perfect starter bike. Thousands of new riders a year start out on Harley Sportsters, Viragos, Shadows, V-Stars, etc. Find the one that feels the most comfortable for you. Spend some time have it set up to your body. Leave a little growing room. Buy what you want and forget what everybody else says. You'll be the one riding it, not them. Take everything you hear with a grain of salt. There comes a point with bikes when it turns into a "Chevy vs Ford" debate. Use the information to find out which models and which years were more prone to 'X' problems, things like that. Then make your decisions. I like a water-cooled bike a lot more than an air-cooled, even though I ride an air-cooled right now. Especially if you plan on doing a lot of start and stop city riding. It's a little harder to keep an air-cooled bike's temp down when you're driving at slower speeds and doing a lot of driving in traffic lights and start and stop traffic. You won't have to worry about this on a water-cooled bike. As for the sport bike vs cruiser comparison, a lot of people have already made very good points about the two. It's kind of like a sports car vs sedan comparison. One is not any better than the other. It just depends on your preference and what you want out of the bike.

 

 

Simple solution...brake THEN turn....

 

I'm sure I piss off other riders in groups I'm in, but I corner like an old lady. I used to go through them like everyone else, but then I went off the road and broke my wrist...and rode it home, then went to the ER...lol - lesson learned - now I corner like I expect there to be something in the road that I'll have to avoid if I can't see all the way through the turn.

 

Makes things a lot safer...

[silverfacechamp]

Agreed. You need to learn the proper technique. I know a Honda demo rider who puts on demo about how easy it is to pick up a Gold Wing that has been dumped. It's a woman...

 

 

Most Goldwings have enough fairing material on them to not fall perfectly flat. Hence you have a better starting position. Yes, there is a technique, but technique only gets you so far.

[jenksdrummer]

If it falls over in an intersection in traffic, a 120 pound woman (or man for that matter) generally doesn't have the physical strength to pick up an 800lb bike. Period. Most people don't carry around 10 foot long pieces of wood and a pulley system.

 

 

Again...it's all about leverage...

 

k4MPyX0QCYw

[Olympus]

Simple solution...brake THEN turn....

 

 

Exactly! That's the technique. But come around a curve and have to make a complete stop because of stopped traffic, an object in the road, a car crash, a deer, or whatever. I mean if you have to come to a complete stop while in a curve and you have to do it quickly. If you're developed poor techniques, you'll forget to straighten your bars. Leaving them turned the way you were moving will cause your moment to keep moving in the direction you're turning. With a small bike like a 250, most people can physically stop the bike from falling. But with a bigger bike, it will be a LOT harder and might not be possible for some. That was just the point I was trying to make.

 

Having your center of balance off and having your bars turned is a recipe for dumping. If that a habit I have with a small bike, I don't might not notice it because I could physically manhandle the bike. But if I sell that little bike and move up to something bigger. It's only a matter of time before I learn a hard lesson.

[vangkm]

I just learned to ride last season, picked up a good deal near the end of the season. If you want to wait a few months prices will go down and ppl will be willing to deal so they don't have to store the bike for another winter (that is if you live in areas that get snow).

 

I got a great deal on my bike, 2000 V-Star 650 Classic. I'm wanting to upgrade already but if I was stuck with this bike I wouldn't mind too much either. Soooo many aftermarket parts for V-Star bikes too.

[Olympus]

Again...it's all about leverage...

 

 

Agree with that too. That is the technique almost exactly that the demo rider I know teaches people.

 

But with the situation you described, you run into other factors. If it's a new rider they'll probably be flustered. They'll be embarrassed, they'll be worried about other traffic, they might be hurt, and mainly unless they're a really calm person or an experienced rider, they could possibly completely forget how to correctly pick up a bike.

[silverfacechamp]

 

 

Thanks for proving my point.

 

That bike is an XL...probably an 883. It also has crash bars on it, and it was tipped over on the right side, allowing use of the kick stand to 'catch' the bike as it came back over.

 

Not going to be nearly as easy with a fully dressed bike weighing 200-300 lbs more, in the wind, when you're already nervous and scared, with no crash bars, and tipped on the left when you don't have any way to catch it from falling over on the other side. Notice how she struggled getting it up on the rubber? That's a relatively small, bare bike.

 

You guys saying 'You need to learn proper technique' need to get on the road more and be on YouTube less.

[jenksdrummer]

Exactly! That's the technique. But come around a curve and have to make a complete stop because of stopped traffic, an object in the road, a car crash, a deer, or whatever. I mean if you have to come to a complete stop while in a curve and you have to do it quickly. If you're developed poor techniques, you'll forget to straighten your bars. Leaving them turned the way you were moving will cause your moment to keep moving in the direction you're turning. With a small bike like a 250, most people can physically stop the bike from falling. But with a bigger bike, it will be a LOT harder and might not be possible for some. That was just the point I was trying to make. Having your center of balance off and having your bars turned is a recipe for dumping. If that a habit I have with a small bike, I don't might not notice it because I could physically manhandle the bike. But if I sell that little bike and move up to something bigger. It's only a matter of time before I learn a hard lesson.

Another thing most people don't realize is that your throttle is your friend...not enough "bite" in the turn - give it a bit of juice, and you'll decrease your turning radius...when you let off your gas, the bike will stand up.

Hard to learn that, since your instinct is to let off the gas and brake.

But, that's also making the HUGE assumption that you know how much of that traction pie you're using. (anything you do uses "traction" - you run out, you hit the ground. Any change in direction "consumes" traction pie, as well as weather conditions and road debris )

[jenksdrummer]

Thanks for proving my point. That bike is an XL...probably an 883. It also has crash bars on it, and it was tipped over on the right side, allowing use of the kick stand to 'catch' the bike as it came back over. Not going to be nearly as easy with a fully dressed bike weighing 200-300 lbs more, in the wind, when you're already nervous and scared, with no crash bars, and tipped on the left when you don't have any way to catch it from falling over on the other side. Notice how she struggled getting it up on the rubber? That's a relatively small, bare bike. You guys saying 'You need to learn proper technique' need to get on the road more and be on YouTube less.

 

 

Search youtube on "pick up dropped bike" - and there are literally hundreds of examples. I just picked one that had a girl...and from what I saw, she damn near dead lifted the bike...no struggle at all - she would have managed no problem if the instructor wasn't giving her instructions mid-lift...