Members silverfacechamp Posted July 7, 2010 Members Share Posted July 7, 2010 Search youtube on "pick up dropped bike" - and there are literally hundreds of examples. I just picked one that had a girl. Yes, and the vast majority of the time they're tipped on the right side, and resting on the fairings (a really soft tip), not all the way on their sides. I'm right about this, I've seen it literally hundreds of times. It might work well in a video, but this thing called real world isn't as easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jenksdrummer Posted July 7, 2010 Members Share Posted July 7, 2010 Yes, and the vast majority of the time they're tipped on the right side, and resting on the fairings (a really soft tip), not all the way on their sides. I'm right about this, I've seen it literally hundreds of times. It might work well in a video, but this thing called real world isn't as easy. Do you even ride, or are you just nay-saying because you think you're right? First you say that no man or woman has the strength to lift a bike on their own...then you attach conditions to it when I show you video of it otherwise? I've rode with a number of small women riders...and I've seen them drop their bike, and pick it up no problem. 1100 V-star's, 1300 Honda's, even one gal with an 1800 VTX... All of these women were under 5'5" and no more than 130lbs.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members silverfacechamp Posted July 7, 2010 Members Share Posted July 7, 2010 Do you even ride, or are you just nay-saying because you think you're right? First you say that no man or woman has the strength to lift a bike on their own...then you attach conditions to it when I show you video of it otherwise?I've rode with a number of small women riders...and I've seen them drop their bike, and pick it up no problem. 1100 V-star's, 1300 Honda's, even one gal with an 1800 VTX...All of these women were under 5'5" and no more than 130lbs.... I've been on a bike just about longer than longer than you've been alive, and I ride more per year than most do in 10. Do YOU ride? You showed a video where it works, I gave examples where it wouldn't. Why are you so emotionally invested in this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members silverfacechamp Posted July 7, 2010 Members Share Posted July 7, 2010 Agree with that too. That is the technique almost exactly that the demo rider I know teaches people.But with the situation you described, you run into other factors. If it's a new rider they'll probably be flustered. They'll be embarrassed, they'll be worried about other traffic, they might be hurt, and mainly unless they're a really calm person or an experienced rider, they could possibly completely forget how to correctly pick up a bike. This guy rides motorcycles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jenksdrummer Posted July 7, 2010 Members Share Posted July 7, 2010 I've been on a bike just about longer than longer than you've been alive, and I ride more per year than most do in 10. Do YOU ride?You showed a video where it works, I gave examples where it wouldn't. Why are you so emotionally invested in this? Actually, you didn't give examples, you just said it wouldn't happen without wood blocks and pulleys... That says to me that you have no idea what you're talking about, and are trying to weasel your way out of being wrong by taking whatever angle you can to prove a point... The point is... A fallen bike can be lifted by anyone. You said otherwise, I've proven you wrong... Good day Sir! (and, yes, I ride...bought my bike in 2006, and I've got around 16K on the clock with it. Not a ton of miles since the first summer with it (10K), but mostly that'd due to the band taking up all my riding time) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members silverfacechamp Posted July 7, 2010 Members Share Posted July 7, 2010 That bike is an XL...probably an 883. It also has crash bars on it, and it was tipped over on the right side, allowing use of the kick stand to 'catch' the bike as it came back over.Not going to be nearly as easy with a fully dressed bike weighing 200-300 lbs more, in the wind, when you're already nervous and scared, with no crash bars, and tipped on the left when you don't have any way to catch it from falling over on the other side. Notice how she struggled getting it up on the rubber? That's a relatively small, bare bike. A fallen bike CAN'T be picked up by 'anyone.' There are a LOT of bikes that are too heavy to be picked up in any situation by some people. Go lay an 1100 pound Boss Hoss flat on its side and tell those same girls to go pick it up. Hell, go lay over an ultra classic FLAT, not on the fairings, in traffic and on the left side, and she couldn't do it either. I've seen it. Who am I to believe, a relatively new rider on the internet or my lying eyes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members co&cafan808 Posted July 7, 2010 Members Share Posted July 7, 2010 Another thing most people don't realize is that your throttle is your friend...not enough "bite" in the turn - give it a bit of juice, and you'll decrease your turning radius...when you let off your gas, the bike will stand up. Hard to learn that, since your instinct is to let off the gas and brake. But, that's also making the HUGE assumption that you know how much of that traction pie you're using. (anything you do uses "traction" - you run out, you hit the ground. Any change in direction "consumes" traction pie, as well as weather conditions and road debris ) Yes, the bike stands up because when under throttle the rear end squats a bit so you should avoid braking while turning especially the front brake. On the opposite end you don't ever really want to be wide open because then you have no extra juice to help you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members co&cafan808 Posted July 7, 2010 Members Share Posted July 7, 2010 You haven't 'proven' anything. You've probably been riding about, what, 5 years, and you put about 3k on per year, amirite? If you'll look at the above posts, you'll see that I'm not the only one saying this. And, since you seem to not be reading everything, here's a requote of the examples I posted:A fallen bike CAN'T be picked up by 'anyone.' There are a LOT of bikes that are too heavy to be picked up in any situation by some people. Go lay an 1100 pound Boss Hoss flat on its side and tell those same girls to go pick it up. Hell, go lay over an ultra classic FLAT, not on the fairings, in traffic and on the left side, and she couldn't do it either. I've seen it. Who am I to believe, a relatively new rider on the internet or my lying eyes? I have to agree with you here I'm sure there is quite a few bikes I could not get up due to my back problems. I don't care who you are you will panic also if your bike is layed over in the middle of a busy street. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jenksdrummer Posted July 7, 2010 Members Share Posted July 7, 2010 Yes, the bike stands up because when under throttle the rear end squats a bit so you should avoid braking while turning especially the front brake. On the opposite end you don't ever really want to be wide open because then you have no extra juice to help you. I can't imagine being wide open in a turn without a lowside being next... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members co&cafan808 Posted July 7, 2010 Members Share Posted July 7, 2010 I can't imagine being wide open in a turn without a lowside being next... I can definately imagine it especially riding a sport bike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jenksdrummer Posted July 7, 2010 Members Share Posted July 7, 2010 You haven't 'proven' anything. You've probably been riding about, what, 5 years, and you put about 3k on per year, amirite? If you'll look at the above posts, you'll see that I'm not the only one saying this. And, since you seem to not be reading everything, here's a requote of the examples I posted:A fallen bike CAN'T be picked up by 'anyone.' There are a LOT of bikes that are too heavy to be picked up in any situation by some people. Go lay an 1100 pound Boss Hoss flat on its side and tell those same girls to go pick it up. Hell, go lay over an ultra classic FLAT, not on the fairings, in traffic and on the left side, and she couldn't do it either. I've seen it. Who am I to believe, a relatively new rider on the internet or my lying eyes? That's my current bike (and the only street bike I've had), I did a lot of off-roading when I was younger...but, hell, what do I know...I guess both of our eyes lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jenksdrummer Posted July 7, 2010 Members Share Posted July 7, 2010 I can definately imagine it especially riding a sport bike on a track. Fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members silverfacechamp Posted July 7, 2010 Members Share Posted July 7, 2010 I can definately imagine it especially riding a sport bike. Yup. In fact, a friend of mine's cousin got killed just outside of Muskogee, OK doing exactly that....riding wide open into a turn with nowhere to go on the throttle to pick the bike back up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members silverfacechamp Posted July 7, 2010 Members Share Posted July 7, 2010 That's my current bike (and the only street bike I've had), I did a lot of off-roading when I was younger...but, hell, what do I know...I guess both of our eyes lie. Dirt bike experience =/= street bike experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members strtdv Posted July 7, 2010 Members Share Posted July 7, 2010 Wow. Thanks everyone for the advice. I don't want a sportsbike. They don't interest me at all. They look uncomfortable anyway. What's the benefit of a sports bike over a cruiser anyway? I will definitely look at the 650 and up on the virago. I prefer the looks of the virago over the shadows. If it matters, I'm 5'8" and 125 lbs. I'm a small guy. I don't know if that makes a difference or not. My riding will be a mix of highway and suburban and city driving. I work in the city and live in staten island. Thanks again everyone SV suits a shorter rider, and it's something like 195kg wet so weight shouldnt be an issue. The only thing that lets it down a bit is cheap suspension, but at 125lbs that shouldn't be an issue for you, and new springs fixes it anyway (or cartridge emulators if you're feeling adventurous).The SV isn't a sportsbike, it's a naked. It has bars rather than clip-ons. Here's a photo:Cruisers have quite an awkward riding position for learning to ride on in that your feet are well in front of your body, and the bars can be quite a reach. It's quite unnatural feeling and can make low speed manouverability an issue until you really get the hang of it.Cruisers also don't have much ground clearance, so don't expect to be able to throw it into corners like you can a bike with more ground clearance.One of the most important accident-preventing skills is knowing that when a corner tightens unexpectedly on you, you can push on the bar and lean the bike over further. You can't do this on a cruiser.Also, while people will probably flame me for this, HDs are hugely overrated. Over here they cost a small fortune, and the build quality just isn't up to par with anything Japanese, European, or other American bikes like Victory or Indian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jenksdrummer Posted July 7, 2010 Members Share Posted July 7, 2010 Yup. In fact, a friend of mine's cousin got killed just outside of Muskogee, OK doing exactly that....riding wide open into a turn with nowhere to go on the throttle to pick the bike back up. Funny, my experience is that if you give it a bit of juice in a corner, it will bite more and result in going harder through the turn...not stand the bike up. Letting off stands the bike up. Clarification: Accelleration = sharper radius, more lean, faster/harder turn-in. Decel = stands the bike up, less lean, slower/easier turn-in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jenksdrummer Posted July 7, 2010 Members Share Posted July 7, 2010 Dirt bike experience =/= street bike experience. True, that's how I ended up with a broken wrist 3 months after buying it and about 6K in damage to my bike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members co&cafan808 Posted July 7, 2010 Members Share Posted July 7, 2010 Damn this thread reminds me how bad I want one of these.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Olympus Posted July 7, 2010 Members Share Posted July 7, 2010 This guy rides motorcycles.You're right, I do ride bikes. Big ones and small ones. And someone mentioned that I needed to stop talking about "proper techniques". The techniques I have been referring to have absolutely NOTHING to do with how to pick up a bike when it's on the ground. Proper techniques I'm referring to will keep a person from ever having to pick up a dumped bike in the first place. 11 years of riding and I still haven't dumped a bike!Now where is that wood to knock on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members silverfacechamp Posted July 7, 2010 Members Share Posted July 7, 2010 Funny, my experience is that if you give it a bit of juice in a corner, it will bite more and result in going harder through the turn...not stand the bike up.Letting off stands the bike up.Clarification:Accelleration = sharper radius, more lean, faster/harder turn-in.Decel = stands the bike up, less lean, slower/easier turn-in. You're right. But speed is the one thing you're missing here, though (at least in the case I gave). In the situation I'm talking about, the guy needed the bike to bite harder because he wasn't going fast enough to maintain the centrifugal force to make it through the curve...the turn wasn't banked very high and he didn't have enough speed to make the bike bite. He was running it wide open in a mid-gear and apparently panicked to fast to think about shifting. Thus, the bike wanted to go straight, he wanted to turn but didn't have the throttle, and ended up going off the road and down an embankment. I guess what I'm saying is that by forcing the bike into the turn at the speed he was at would've dumped the bike (which would've probably been the better option). If he would've had the throttle he maybe could've pushed the bike through the turn and the bike would've 'stood up' after exiting the curve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jenksdrummer Posted July 7, 2010 Members Share Posted July 7, 2010 SV suits a shorter rider, and it's something like 195kg wet so weight shouldnt be an issue. The only thing that lets it down a bit is cheap suspension, but at 125lbs that shouldn't be an issue for you, and new springs fixes it anyway (or cartridge emulators if you're feeling adventurous). The SV isn't a sportsbike, it's a naked. It has bars rather than clip-ons. Here's a photo: Cruisers have quite an awkward riding position for learning to ride on in that your feet are well in front of your body, and the bars can be quite a reach. It's quite unnatural feeling and can make low speed manouverability an issue until you really get the hang of it. Cruisers also don't have much ground clearance, so don't expect to be able to throw it into corners like you can a bike with more ground clearance. One of the most important accident-preventing skills is knowing that when a corner tightens unexpectedly on you, you can push on the bar and lean the bike over further. You can't do this on a cruiser. Also, while people will probably flame me for this, HDs are hugely overrated. Over here they cost a small fortune, and the build quality just isn't up to par with anything Japanese, European, or other American bikes like Victory or Indian. I use the heel of my boot to warn me I'm about to scrape my pegs. After that I have a scraping peg, which I know I've got a LITTLE more I can press out of a turn before it locks and I'm in oh{censored}-city.In any case, people who own cruisers (IMO) should not be trying to carve up twisties as fast as they can - square peg in a round hole...(again...IMO)Also, I agree with you on HD...but, that doesn't stop me from wanting one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Olympus Posted July 7, 2010 Members Share Posted July 7, 2010 Letting off stands the bike up. Couldn't tell if you were talking about in a corner or not. But if you were under normal circumstances, then YES, you nailed it. I've never heard anyone, instructors included, ever say other than what you just said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jenksdrummer Posted July 7, 2010 Members Share Posted July 7, 2010 You're right, I do ride bikes. Big ones and small ones. And someone mentioned that I needed to stop talking about "proper techniques". The techniques I have been referring to have absolutely NOTHING to do with how to pick up a bike when it's on the ground. Proper techniques I'm referring to will keep a person from ever having to pick up a dumped bike in the first place. 11 years of riding and I still haven't dumped a bike! Now where is that wood to knock on... I met my quota...lolDropped it with 13 on the clock (damn clutches are grabby when new!) at a stop sign starting to take off - wrinkled the pipes...I wanted to change them out anyway...lol. Dumped it going off on a corner and broke my left wrist with 5K on the clock...rode it 80 miles home like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members silverfacechamp Posted July 7, 2010 Members Share Posted July 7, 2010 True, that's how I ended up with a broken wrist 3 months after buying it and about 6K in damage to my bike.We've all done it. And, provided you walk away from it, most wrecks end in you going Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jenksdrummer Posted July 7, 2010 Members Share Posted July 7, 2010 You're right. But speed is the one thing you're missing here, though (at least in the case I gave). In the situation I'm talking about, the guy needed the bike to bite harder because he wasn't going fast enough to maintain the centrifugal force to make it through the curve...the turn wasn't banked very high and he didn't have enough speed to make the bike bite. He was running it wide open in a mid-gear and apparently panicked to fast to think about shifting. Thus, the bike wanted to go straight, he wanted to turn but didn't have the throttle, and ended up going off the road and down an embankment.I guess what I'm saying is that by forcing the bike into the turn at the speed he was at would've dumped the bike (which would've probably been the better option). If he would've had the throttle he maybe could've pushed the bike through the turn and the bike would've 'stood up' after exiting the curve. Couldn't he have pressed harder on the bars, and dug in that way, or is there the assumption he was already "all in" and still needed more? If so, that's just asking for trouble. Sorry about your friend's cousin... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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