While we're on the topic of divorce/bad relationships etc....

[flemtone]

It all depends on the love you each hold for the other.

 

My CSB:

My wife and I met when she was 17, i was 18. We dated for four years, then married in 1979. We raised two wonderful daughters and were deliriously happy. Somewhere along the line (around 2002 or so), my wife became more in love with alcohol (probably out of boredom, as one daughter was grown and the other was in the midst of 'Those Years'). I was working a lot of long hours and didn't know it was a danger sign. I tried to get her to stop but to no avail. My frustration was such that a 'sympathetic ear' suddenly found me and I fell into bed with another woman.

 

My wife started to go to AA and cleaned up completely, but I was so fed up (and in the midst of a midlife crisis) that we separated. We were apart for two years, during which she learned that she was capable of handling life by herself, and I learned that my life wasn't complete without her. We never got to the point of hating each other, and we were both always concerned about each others' lives, our problems, our small victories and small defeats. We were still headed towards divorce, however.

 

Finally, we both realized that we were incomplete without the other and reconciled. We moved back in together and have been very happy ever since. I still privately beat myself up for the pain that I caused her, but realize that it was really very good for her to live on her own and prove to herself that she wasn't just my wife and the kids' mother, but was able to grow to know that she could take care of herself and live on her own (she was still living with her parents when we were married). I learned not to take her for granted and to see her as her own person, not just the person who took care of business while I was working.

 

The point is that, having married so young and inexperienced, that we both needed to finish growing up before we could truly be in an 'adult' relationship. We're both more in tune with the others' feelings now, and we're both happy in our relationship.

 

It's been 35 years together, and 31 years of marriage (with a short intermission). For those who say that the concept of a 'soul mate' is a construct of media, we would disagree. We found that our lives were incomplete without the other being there to share in the joys and the tears.

 

It's work. Hard work. If your love and devotion is strong enough and it comes from both sides, it can be a beautiful thing.

[JKD]

flemtone, that really is a CSB...happy for you that it worked out!

[iff]

As someone that's been married 11 years, women change, you change, and I'd be lying if I said I had never thought about leaving. What it takes is hard work, trust, forgiveness, love, and two people being committed to each other no matter what. It's not all roses for sure. We aren't perfect, but we keep working at making it better.

I really like the way you put this and I wish more people would realize what you said.


To Dolf, PP and flemtone (and many others, although these three happened to stand out), much respect for what you've accomplished so far. PP, I like how you said "divorce was not an option"; if you're starting out with divorce in your mind then either you're with the wrong person or you're just not going to be able to handle the hardships of marriage yourself.


This thread has been great and touching at times to read so far...keep it up.

[Giga]

Having been in a few (failed) relationships I realize more and more I'm no relationship material. I'm just too hung up on doing my own thing and being me. And although women initially like that independence, more often than not at some point they seem to get fed up with that with all the negative side effects going with it.

Ultimately, do you *really* need a partner to have a happy and fulfilling life ? I don't think so; it's between the ears...

Giga

[Mr. Brady]

It all depends on the love you each hold for the other. My CSB: My wife and I met when she was 17, i was 18. We dated for four years, then married in 1979. We raised two wonderful daughters and were deliriously happy. Somewhere along the line (around 2002 or so), my wife became more in love with alcohol (probably out of boredom, as one daughter was grown and the other was in the midst of 'Those Years'). I was working a lot of long hours and didn't know it was a danger sign. I tried to get her to stop but to no avail. My frustration was such that a 'sympathetic ear' suddenly found me and I fell into bed with another woman. My wife started to go to AA and cleaned up completely, but I was so fed up (and in the midst of a midlife crisis) that we separated. We were apart for two years, during which she learned that she was capable of handling life by herself, and I learned that my life wasn't complete without her. We never got to the point of hating each other, and we were both always concerned about each others' lives, our problems, our small victories and small defeats. We were still headed towards divorce, however. Finally, we both realized that we were incomplete without the other and reconciled. We moved back in together and have been very happy ever since. I still privately beat myself up for the pain that I caused her, but realize that it was really very good for her to live on her own and prove to herself that she wasn't just my wife and the kids' mother, but was able to grow to know that she could take care of herself and live on her own (she was still living with her parents when we were married). I learned not to take her for granted and to see her as her own person, not just the person who took care of business while I was working. The point is that, having married so young and inexperienced, that we both needed to finish growing up before we could truly be in an 'adult' relationship. We're both more in tune with the others' feelings now, and we're both happy in our relationship. It's been 35 years together, and 31 years of marriage (with a short intermission). For those who say that the concept of a 'soul mate' is a construct of media, we would disagree. We found that our lives were incomplete without the other being there to share in the joys and the tears. It's work. Hard work. If your love and devotion is strong enough and it comes from both sides , it can be a beautiful thing.

 

 

 

It is a cool story. I think you and your wife became soulmates after your experiences together. I tend to think soulmates are made, not found as Hollywood would have you believe. It's only after lots of blood, sweat, and tears with another person that you become so interconnected that you can't imagine life without the other.

[codek]

Exactly! People get married way too early in life, before they are who they will be for the rest of their life. If I'd have gotten married at 26, I am 100% positive I'd be divorced now as well. I was a very different person then... but once I reached my mid-30s, I had developed into someone that wasn't going to change drastically any more. Luckily, I had the sense to wait until then to get married. Too many people marry based on initial attraction and that is rarely going to work long term.... I know people will chime in with their, "Well... me an' my wife got married at 11 and 50 years later we're more in love now than ever... blah... blah... blah...", but the truth is that is the anomaly not the rule... IMO, men should not get married until at least 35 and they should marry a woman at least 10 years younger... That's just my opinion though... Steve

 

 

couldn't say it better myself

[codek]

My current wife of 24 years and I are both committed Christians (easy now, calm down and don't over-react), who have maintained, even with, at times, a very weak effort, to put our God first have found the grace to stay together. Sex is selfish, love is work. We like lust (Oh yes we do), and we are lazy by nature. Divorce is easy, marriage at times is tough as hell.

 

 

christians suck and are the biggest hypocrites.

 

they talk like Jesus solves all problems and miracles happen the time.

 

I went to church all my life, never saw a miracle. All I saw was people who could talk the talk but could not walk the walk.

 

I saw a God that did not care and did not answer my prayer.

[pioneerprogress]

It is a cool story. I think you and your wife became soulmates after your experiences together. I tend to think soulmates are made, not found as Hollywood would have you believe. It's only after lots of blood, sweat, and tears with another person that you become so interconnected that you can't imagine life without the other.

 

Bingo.

I think that's precisely what sah and a few others were trying to point to.

You don't just stumble upon that one-in-7-billion perfect soulmate. You both grow and become that.

And to no.mop, it certainly isn't because I've done anything special. All I do is mess stuff up More or less it's just a mindset.

 

^Codek, sorry things worked that way.

I'll be the first to tell you that churches are filled with hypocrites.

Of course there isn't a single perfect person in any of them, either. But I would say less than half of the people you run into who call themselves "Christians" really are. And there are even less that really walk the walk.

All I'll say is anybody who would make you believe that you're there just to receive a miracle is pretty misguided. Not the way it works, really. Most of the people "selling" Christianity really don't get it themselves.

[JRBain]

Marriage requires a deep commitment. We all marry out of infatuation mixed with caring-infatuation is mostly chemical/biological and will fade, caring is spiritual love, unselfish and sacrificial and giving by it's essence. This can grow with practice and a continued choice of the will. For many of us when the infatuation wears off, we try to hang on out of maybe a sense of duty or higher ethics but our lack of spiritual development and commitment to be loving and caring people first and people of selfish desires second prevents us from being able to last and separation becomes the only solution. My first wife and I failed because of the dynamics mentioned above. My current wife of 24 years and I are both committed Christians (easy now, calm down and don't over-react), who have maintained, even with, at times, a very weak effort, to put our God first have found the grace to stay together. Sex is selfish, love is work. We like lust (Oh yes we do), and we are lazy by nature. Divorce is easy, marriage at times is tough as hell. Good luck OP, I was married at 19 and divorced at 26, remarried at 36 (dated my current wife since I was 30), you can be a winner......pick a loving girl, be a loving man and both of you will succeed.

 

Yes, this.

 

I mean, it's utterly ridiculous to make generalisations like 'secular marriages are inevitably doomed to failure', but whether anyone likes it or not, having a long abstinent relationship prior to marriage (6 years here) is a very good way to forge a very strong bond with someone. Without that gratification, you have to find something else. It's tough, but so is marriage...

[Dolf]

 

Yes, this. I mean, it's utterly ridiculous to make generalisations like 'secular marriages are inevitably doomed to failure', but whether anyone likes it or not, having a long abstinent relationship prior to marriage (6 years here) is a very good way to forge a very strong bond with someone. Without that gratification, you have to find something else. It's tough, but so is marriage...

 

 

You know what's (honestly) harder than marriage? Being a teenager in a committed relationship (especially an engagement) with someone you are VERY attracted to and not having sex. If you can do that, you can stay married.

[JRBain]

 

You know what's (honestly) harder than marriage? Being a teenager in a committed relationship (especially an engagement) with someone you are VERY attracted to and not having sex. If you can do that, you can stay married.

 

 

Yep, I would definitely agree. I met my fianc

[mfergel]

Don't know what I really have to say about all this. Knew girlfriend for several months before we started dating officially. We were flirting before we started dating. She had a boyfriend during that time. The day she kicked him out of the house I was already spending the night. Three months later I was offered a job 1800 miles away and she moved with me. That was probably the first mistake. We lived together for 3 years before getting married. Were married 13 years before our divorce. We didn't marry young. Biggest issue though was that we were never really "best" friends. I don't think we ever really shared what was on our minds and in our hearts. We had a daughter our 5th year of marriage and I think after that point I felt completely ignored (which I've heard is a common problem after a child is born). I probably told her "I love you" a dozen times or so after the birth. Funny thing is she had thought our marriage was getting better after we had a child. Near the end I was staying home with our daughter while she went clubbing with her friends. We got separated and the new guy was spending the nights as soon as I was out of the house. Word of warning - if you're the guy that replaced someone else in her life - your replacement is probably just around the corner, whether it be 1 year from now or 10 years from now.........or more.

 

This talk of religion, etc.........all bull. Too many of us make the mistake of not choosing our best friend. You don't fall in love and hope that someone turns into your best friend. I've dated women since my divorce that I have better communication with than I did with my ex-wife.

 

Trouble is it's always easy to see the problems, the warning signs, the issues........AFTER they happen.

[PurityS.L.G.]

I was 21. She was 19. 36 years later, we're still married and in love. I guess I'm lucky. I have lots of guitars too.

 

 

Quoted this for duncan.

[FastRedPonyCar]

christians suck and are the biggest hypocrites. they talk like Jesus solves all problems and miracles happen the time. I went to church all my life, never saw a miracle. All I saw was people who could talk the talk but could not walk the walk. I saw a God that did not care and did not answer my prayer.

 

Not to derail this thread but,

 

Because people are flawed and imperfect by nature, the religion as a whole is the problem?

 

Point number two: there's no rule in the Bible or any other scripture that says God HAS to answer whatever your prayer may happen to be.

 

I've had some pretty awful stuff go down in my life and God never magically swooped in and made everything better. The stuff unfolded and it sucked for a lot of people but He gave me comfort mentally and emotionally to handle those situations and I emerged a stronger person.

 

 

All christians suck and are hypocrites? You sir fail for generalizing an entire religion. That's as ignorant as saying all Mulsims are extremists hell bent on destroying infidels.

[Dolf]

Not to derail this thread but, Because people are flawed and imperfect by nature, the religion as a whole is the problem? Point number two: there's no rule in the Bible or any other scripture that says God HAS to answer whatever your prayer may happen to be. I've had some pretty awful stuff go down in my life and God never magically swooped in and made everything better. The stuff unfolded and it sucked for a lot of people but He gave me comfort mentally and emotionally to handle those situations and I emerged a stronger person. All christians suck and are hypocrites? You sir fail for generalizing an entire religion. That's as ignorant as saying all Mulsims are extremists hell bent on destroying infidels.

 

Great post.

 

In his defense, I will say though that all Christians ARE hypocrites in one form or another. Of course, all HUMANS are hypocrites. If you don't want to go to church with a bunch of hypocrites, how come you have no problem going to the grocery store or work?

[pioneerprogress]

 

Word of warning - if you're the guy that replaced someone else in her life - your replacement is probably just around the corner

 

 

It amazes me how more people don't see this.

[FastRedPonyCar]

Great post. In his defense, I will say though that all Christians ARE hypocrites in one form or another. Of course, all HUMANS are hypocrites. If you don't want to go to church with a bunch of hypocrites, how come you have no problem going to the grocery store or work?

A lot of it is how the church teaches though. There are a lot of churches that teach you to judge others and teaches people to be intolerant of anyone with differing views and this just enrages me. totally goes against everything the religion is supposed to stand for.

Tough love from one Christian to another is perfectly ok (encouraged actually) but bashing non christians when they break rules of Christianity that they aren't even aware of? WAT
Also, relating back to the whole prayer answering thing... My own personal philosophy is that it's not God's responsibility to answer our prayers. I've read most of the Bible from cover to cover (usually skipping the geneology stuff in the old testament) and at no point does it ever say that God is obligated to answer our requests through prayer. God doesn't serve Christians, Christians serve God.

[Dolf]

A lot of it is how the church teaches though. There are a lot of churches that teach you to judge others and teaches people to be intolerant of anyone with differing views and this just enrages me. totally goes against everything the religion is supposed to stand for. Tough love from one Christian to another is perfectly ok (encouraged actually) but bashing non christians when they break rules of Christianity that they aren't even aware of? WAT Also, relating back to the whole prayer answering thing... My own personal philosophy is that it's not God's responsibility to answer our prayers. I've read most of the Bible from cover to cover (usually skipping the geneology stuff in the old testament) and at no point does it ever say that God is obligated to answer our requests through prayer. God doesn't serve Christians, Christians serve God.

 

This is all true. And being a Christian as well as doing some pretty in-depth (particularly Old Testament) study in college, I can tell you that God is never referred to as a Wishing Genie. It just doesn't work that way. "Ask and you will receive" doesn't refer to "give me a million dollars" and *poof*.

[FastRedPonyCar]

You know what's (honestly) harder than marriage? Being a teenager in a committed relationship (especially an engagement) with someone you are VERY attracted to and not having sex. If you can do that, you can stay married.

My wife and I were like this. It went from getting it whenever to absolutely nothing. Wife was a virgin up till our wedding night

It was a good thing though because my previous relationships all began as something physical and the mental connection to the person for who they were never really got off the ground.

I settled into a mentality that no matter who I end up with, the sex will eventually slow down, they'll get old and less attractive than they are in their 20's so why not find someone that I will enjoy being around when they're old?

Mrs. FRPC exceeds all expectations despite her despising most of my guy hobbies like spending money on guy stuff and Sci Fi movies.

[Dolf]

Yeah, Mrs. Dolf and I knew each other for 3 or 4 years before we started dating and did our damnedest to not have a physical relationship for the whole first year....well, two 18-year-old "kids", good luck with that . We made it through a year though.

 

Then we were engaged for 3 years, almost a year of which we spent waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay apart. Like 1200 miles apart. So that was another opportunity for us to increase our relationship in a way that had nothing to do with physicality. She's stuck with me.

[Chrisjd]

We got separated and the new guy was spending the nights as soon as I was out of the house. Word of warning - if you're the guy that replaced someone else in her life - your replacement is probably just around the corner, whether it be 1 year from now or 10 years from now.........or more.

 

 

So what are you saying, if a chick leaves someone for you, that you're bound to be replaced down the road?

 

My girlfriend was living with her ex and had just broken up with him. she claims she was mentally and emotionally disconnected from him for quite a while, so it wasn't as abrupt for her when she finally moved out. I was staying with her weeks after they broke up, so there wasn't much time in between, therefore, you could say i was the replacement.

 

You think I need to be cautious of that?

[pioneerprogress]

 

So what are you saying, if a chick leaves someone for you, that you're bound to be replaced down the road? My girlfriend was living with her ex and had just broken up with him. she claims she was mentally and emotionally disconnected from him for quite a while, so it wasn't as abrupt for her when she finally moved out. I was staying with her weeks after they broke up, so there wasn't much time in between, therefore, you could say i was the replacement. You think I need to be cautious of that?

 

 

That's a little different. They were already broken up before you became an item.

When a woman leaves someone they are still with, to move in with you (cheating, in other words - playing 2 men at once), then the probability is higher it's gonna happen to you.

[Ovid9]

So what are you saying, if a chick leaves someone for you, that you're bound to be replaced down the road? My girlfriend was living with her ex and had just broken up with him. she claims she was mentally and emotionally disconnected from him for quite a while, so it wasn't as abrupt for her when she finally moved out. I was staying with her weeks after they broke up, so there wasn't much time in between, therefore, you could say i was the replacement. You think I need to be cautious of that?

 

 

 

At least be cognizant of it being a possible issue. However:

 

We're not trying to freak you, or anyone out of a relationship/marriage/whatever.

 

If you have good communication, have fun together, trust each other and the gazillion other things talked about here, it can work, and work well.

 

Nobody is perfect in any relationship, so knowing about potential issues before it gets "permanent" is never, ever a bad thing.

 

And she might have been over him before it officially ended like she says.

 

So don't freak out, but talk, have fun, really get to know each other and connect.

[sah5150]

So what are you saying, if a chick leaves someone for you, that you're bound to be replaced down the road? My girlfriend was living with her ex and had just broken up with him. she claims she was mentally and emotionally disconnected from him for quite a while, so it wasn't as abrupt for her when she finally moved out. I was staying with her weeks after they broke up, so there wasn't much time in between, therefore, you could say i was the replacement. You think I need to be cautious of that?

 

I personally don't. My wife and I fell for each other literally while she was living with and engaged to someone else. It became clear once our friendship got closer and closer that the other dude just was not right for her. We've now been together 16 years. Every situation is different though...

 

Steve

[Ron Burgandy]

Don't know what I really have to say about all this. Knew girlfriend for several months before we started dating officially. We were flirting before we started dating. She had a boyfriend during that time. The day she kicked him out of the house I was already spending the night. Three months later I was offered a job 1800 miles away and she moved with me. That was probably the first mistake. We lived together for 3 years before getting married. Were married 13 years before our divorce. We didn't marry young. Biggest issue though was that we were never really "best" friends. I don't think we ever really shared what was on our minds and in our hearts. We had a daughter our 5th year of marriage and I think after that point I felt completely ignored (which I've heard is a common problem after a child is born). I probably told her "I love you" a dozen times or so after the birth. Funny thing is she had thought our marriage was getting better after we had a child. Near the end I was staying home with our daughter while she went clubbing with her friends. We got separated and the new guy was spending the nights as soon as I was out of the house. Word of warning - if you're the guy that replaced someone else in her life - your replacement is probably just around the corner, whether it be 1 year from now or 10 years from now.........or more. This talk of religion, etc.........all bull. Too many of us make the mistake of not choosing our best friend. You don't fall in love and hope that someone turns into your best friend. I've dated women since my divorce that I have better communication with than I did with my ex-wife. Trouble is it's always easy to see the problems, the warning signs, the issues........AFTER they happen.

 

 

the whole replacing the previous boyfriend thing... man... never understood that mentality. At one point she was just as thrilled over the previous dude, and then drops him for you? Kinda creepy to me. I want a girl to be over her ex on her own accord, and not because I was a better option that particular day.

 

 

I never chased after taken girls, because they were always a bit looney. Sure they were crazy and wanted the same thing I did, but they wanted it for some {censored}ed up reason I couldn't understand.

 

 

 

 

Anyway, once a cheating bitch, always a cheating bitch.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

for the longest time my younger brother was bragging about how he stole his girlfriend from some loser. He thought he was the MAN, and the other guy was just a loser that needed to be out of the picture. By the time she was done with him, some other dude had stolen her from my broken brother and he became *that* guy. Sucks to be him, but I remember meeting his girlfriend before they started dating at a party. She was coming on to me while her boyfriend was in the other room. I was repulsed. But not quite as repulsed as I was when my bro told me they started dating. Of course I never mentioned that she was trying to put her hand down my pants (literally) a week before he {censored}ed her.