Members Johnny Two Tone Posted June 22, 2011 Members Share Posted June 22, 2011 This has probably been posted already, but... {censored} it. Fractal Audio has upped the price of the Axe-FX II by $400. What's that all about? Right now if you get on the wait list they will deduct the $400 increase but I'm assuming that's for a limited time. Did I post this just to stir things up? Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members EdgeOfDarkness Posted June 22, 2011 Members Share Posted June 22, 2011 Keep an angry mob from happening when guys with new ultras have to sell below $1000 cause the replacement axe cost the same and everyone would rather have it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members madrigal77 Posted June 22, 2011 Members Share Posted June 22, 2011 Been talked to death on Rig Talk. I'm pretty sure some people on the Fractal forums have had a some kind of seizure over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarbilly74 Posted June 22, 2011 Members Share Posted June 22, 2011 Cliff is a dick. Film at 11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members grunge782 Posted June 22, 2011 Members Share Posted June 22, 2011 To be fair, the processors he uses aren't cheap. That has to be factored in when he went from using 1 to 2. However, I still thought the first Axe-fx was overpriced . It's just VERY hard for me to believe that something digital used for guitar tones and fx costs such a high price to manufacture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DR Foster Posted June 22, 2011 Members Share Posted June 22, 2011 i sold my standard today.$1250.bought in january. bye,bye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Charlie_Sheen Posted June 22, 2011 Members Share Posted June 22, 2011 seriously zent. again with the {censored}ing axe-fx thr... wait, what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitar_face Posted June 22, 2011 Members Share Posted June 22, 2011 Did anyone else notice that people who own Axe-FXs really want an Axe-FX II? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members grunge782 Posted June 22, 2011 Members Share Posted June 22, 2011 Did anyone else notice that people who own Axe-FXs really want an Axe-FX II? When you owned an Axe-fx I you could bash other modelers tones (even if they sounded great) because it was considered the best. Now that the II has come out, suddenly your modeler's tones can be bunched in with other cheaper modelers tones because it is no longer the "best". That's the issue that arises with digital, people can use objective specs like processing power to talk about how good tones are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BrendanO Posted June 22, 2011 Members Share Posted June 22, 2011 seriously zent. again with the {censored}ing axe-fx thr... wait, what? I am also posting to register my surprise that Zent was beaten to the punch on something Snax related. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitar_face Posted June 22, 2011 Members Share Posted June 22, 2011 When you owned an Axe-fx I you could bash other modelers tones (even if they sounded great) because it was considered the best. Now that the II has come out, suddenly your modeler's tones can be bunched in with other cheaper modelers tones because it is no longer the "best". That's the issue that arises with digital, people can use objective specs like processing power to talk about how good tones are. Tone is in the algorithim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Johnny Two Tone Posted June 22, 2011 Author Members Share Posted June 22, 2011 Haha, ya Zent lost out on this one. The funny thing is I couldn't possibly care less about the Axe-FX II - I just happened to see a thread posting about the increase while Googling something unrelated (weird coincidence). And, that's because I barely care about the Ultra. I bought the thing because A)I wanted an all in one unit to do "bedroom" playing. B)I wanted to stop thinking about new gear. The Ultra did both of those thing. But... I barely do anything with the unit. I use, like, three presets. I have yet to setup the foot controller, and I've owned the unit for two years. I think I've created maybe one completely original patch. Etc. Anyway, back on topic: I thought the price increase was strange because if the price of the new unit started at this level in the first place not only would it have made sense but it would have shut all the new owner complainers up. Upping the price now does nothing to regain lost face, if you will, and really just adds to the things for people to complain about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Spizzledude Posted June 22, 2011 Members Share Posted June 22, 2011 Old news is old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RaceU4her Posted June 22, 2011 Members Share Posted June 22, 2011 To be fair, the processors he uses aren't cheap. That has to be factored in when he went from using 1 to 2. However, I still thought the first Axe-fx was overpriced . It's just VERY hard for me to believe that something digital used for guitar tones and fx costs such a high price to manufacture. i dont think computer programmers designing the thing come cheap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members grunge782 Posted June 22, 2011 Members Share Posted June 22, 2011 i dont think computer programmers designing the thing come cheap Meh its not like other modeling companies don't have computer programmers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members KCTigerChief Posted June 22, 2011 Members Share Posted June 22, 2011 i dont think computer programmers designing the thing come cheap This. You can't just factor in parts cost. Things have to be written, tested, debugged, rewritten, retested, ad nauseum...This process can take years...Say Cliff does it himself, and pays himself a flat rate of 75000/yr, and he has to figure out how much to charge on TOP of the parts cost to recoup that amount and still be able to turn a profit. All that said, he isn't losing sleep over that number, I assure you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members KCTigerChief Posted June 22, 2011 Members Share Posted June 22, 2011 Meh its not like other modeling companies don't have computer programmers. And what exactly does that have to do with the Fractal audio price??? Just curious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members shred-o-holic Posted June 22, 2011 Members Share Posted June 22, 2011 When you owned an Axe-fx I you could bash other modelers tones (even if they sounded great) because it was considered the best. Now that the II has come out, suddenly your modeler's tones can be bunched in with other cheaper modelers tones because it is no longer the "best". That's the issue that arises with digital, people can use objective specs like processing power to talk about how good tones are. That may be true for some people wanting the latest and greatest but not for alot of people. I own a Standard and for me it's the single best piece of gear I've purchased in 30 years. Now I'm not giving my Standard away because I need one stat, but I definitely will get a II down the road simply because of how awesome my Standard is. It's going to sound better........nothing wrong with improving on the tone if you can. If you can't understand that then you are {censored}ing stupid..... I also use a Line 6 POD HD 500.......I could give a {censored} on bashing other modellers or anything else for that matter...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members grunge782 Posted June 22, 2011 Members Share Posted June 22, 2011 And what exactly does that have to do with the Fractal audio price??? Just curious I'm saying in comparison to other modeling companies, is the price difference made that much from a difference in pay of programmers? If anything, I see a better argument for the Axe-fx's higher price coming from the quality of parts and being made in the US than paying programmers such high wages as compared to other companies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members grunge782 Posted June 22, 2011 Members Share Posted June 22, 2011 That may be true for some people wanting the latest and greatest but not for alot of people. I own a Standard and for me it's the single best piece of gear I've purchased in 30 years. Now I'm not giving my Standard away because I need one stat, but I definitely will get a II down the road simply because of how awesome my Standard is. It's going to sound better........nothing wrong with improving on the tone if you can. If you can't understand that then you are {censored}ing stupid..... I also use a Line 6 POD HD 500.......I could give a {censored} on bashing other modellers or anything else for that matter...... I'm glad you take that viewpoint, though I've seen my fair share of bashing from Axe-fx users which is unfortunate. I was more referring to the difference now in how somebody can connect a subjective thing like "better tone" to an actual quantitative thing like processing power. You can't do that really with tube amps. Somebodies ideal tone might be from a POD and the Axe-fx or Axe-fx II can't get that kind of tone despite their better specs. Hell, I saw someone earlier post that a POD is better at getting djent tones. I wasn't necessarily saying that liking more processing power is bad, I was just highlighting the link some people make now between quantitative specs and subjective tastes with modelers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members KCTigerChief Posted June 22, 2011 Members Share Posted June 22, 2011 I'm saying in comparison to other modeling companies, is the price difference made that much from a difference in pay of programmers? If anything, I see a better argument for the Axe-fx's higher price coming from the quality of parts and being made in the US than paying programmers such high wages as compared to other companies. I see what you're saying...But look at this from a "size" perspective. The Line6's and Digitech's can mass produce these things with massive parts orders...and as you know, the more you order of one thing, you get a bulk discount. Compound that with the fact that they are able to sell hundreds thousands of their products due to much higher marketing budgets, the fact they can outsource the programming, and you have your answer. Fractal audio is a very small shop. They don't do the massive parts orders, or have a high dollar marketing budget, and as far as I know, the only programmer they have is the owner of the company. They charge more, because it costs them more to produce it. Simple as that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members grunge782 Posted June 22, 2011 Members Share Posted June 22, 2011 I see what you're saying...But look at this from a "size" perspective. The Line6's and Digitech's can mass produce these things with massive parts orders...and as you know, the more you order of one thing, you get a bulk discount. Compound that with the fact that they are able to sell hundreds thousands of their products due to much higher marketing budgets, the fact they can outsource the programming, and you have your answer. Fractal audio is a very small shop. They don't do the massive parts orders, or have a high dollar marketing budget, and as far as I know, the only programmer they have is the owner of the company. They charge more, because it costs them more to produce it. Simple as that That is a good point in terms of large business vs. small shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Johnny Two Tone Posted June 22, 2011 Author Members Share Posted June 22, 2011 Can't people simply charge more because they like money? That's why I'd charge more *wink* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tech21man Posted June 22, 2011 Members Share Posted June 22, 2011 I see what you're saying...But look at this from a "size" perspective. The Line6's and Digitech's can mass produce these things with massive parts orders...and as you know, the more you order of one thing, you get a bulk discount. Compound that with the fact that they are able to sell hundreds thousands of their products due to much higher marketing budgets, the fact they can outsource the programming, and you have your answer. Fractal audio is a very small shop. They don't do the massive parts orders, or have a high dollar marketing budget, and as far as I know, the only programmer they have is the owner of the company. They charge more, because it costs them more to produce it. Simple as that Get it to china for half the price. Jet City must be dying to make another "qood quality china clone" or whatever. Cork sniffers will always appreciate the finer grading and detailing of the made in USA 1s and 0s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeadNight Warrior Posted June 22, 2011 Members Share Posted June 22, 2011 It's just VERY hard for me to believe that something digital used for guitar tones and fx costs such a high price to manufacture. The TigerSHARC alone costs a fair bit. http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=ADSP-TS201SABPZ060-ND Obviously Cliff's not going to be buying them from Digi-Key , and I don't know which TS201S precisely is in the Axe, but it's not the kind of component you can easily find competitive prices for online. You'd have to really go hunting for quotes to get a proper idea of what the price could come down to, and a) I've got no idea what kind of quantities Cliff is buying these in at, and b) like I'm gonna go contacting suppliers over this {censored}. But that's not even the most expensive TS, and the Axe II uses two. Even if he's buying direct from Analog Devices, which I'm guessing is probably the case, they're still not going to be cheap. And then add the other high quality stuff that goes into an Axe, manufacturing done locally (and I know here at least, the difference between even locally done metal work and imported Chinese stuff is huge... running boards locally is an obscene cost compared to doing it in China), and the cost definitely goes way up. Then add your general overheads, plus making a bit of profit to pay for Cliff's development efforts... Let's say he wants to build 500 units (not even an educated guess of any sort, just a random and entirely unsupported figure). Two DSPs per unit, so a 1000pcs needed. The best listed price I've found in my brief search online was for orders of 5016+pcs, and the unit price was $332.97 (why you'd be buying 5000pcs from these people and not at that point going direct to AD I have no idea... it's not like anyone has these kinds of things in stock anyway). Let's just pretend he can buy 1012pcs (23 trays) at say, $200 per unit (again, random guess). That's a good $200k just in two of the components on the board. Add all your sockets, switches, LCDs, converters, enclosures, contract manufacturing, etc. If I was running a small business racking up accounts like that, I'd definitely want to be seeing some return for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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