Members Johansolo Posted July 12, 2011 Members Share Posted July 12, 2011 so...i want to integrate a second mic into some of my recordings/gear demos. plan is to have an SM57 for and up close mic. (either on my 2x12 or a 1x12)and have a second mic blended in for more of a room sound. any tips on avoiding phase cancellations issues (without going KLOPS)or is it simply the case of doing a test track and zooming in on the waveforms? suggestions on a good/bang for buck room mic? condensor or dynamic? or something else?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mesa4x12er2 Posted July 12, 2011 Members Share Posted July 12, 2011 so...i want to integrate a second mic into some of my recordings/gear demos. plan is to have an SM57 for and up close mic. (either on my 2x12 or a 1x12) and have a second mic blended in for more of a room sound. any tips on avoiding phase cancellations issues (without going KLOPS) or is it simply the case of doing a test track and zooming in on the waveforms? suggestions on a good/bang for buck room mic? condensor or dynamic? or something else?? The short answer is that both mics need to be the same distance from the source. The easiest way I have found to get 2 close mics in phase is to place one mic where it sounds good. Then flip the phase on your 2nd preamp and monitor while moving the mic (2nd mic). When you get to the point where the sound is cancelling the most, flip the phase on your preamp back. Now you will have the opposite of most cancellation which is least cancellation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Nerine Posted July 12, 2011 Members Share Posted July 12, 2011 Klops is THE only way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mesa4x12er2 Posted July 12, 2011 Members Share Posted July 12, 2011 Klops is THE only way Actually disregard my last post. THIS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Johansolo Posted July 12, 2011 Author Members Share Posted July 12, 2011 i cant fit a KLOPS in my recording room...plus im sure with the waiting list/backorder, it will be unobtainable for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nakedzen Posted July 12, 2011 Members Share Posted July 12, 2011 What Mesa said. And as a final resort you can zoom in on the waveforms and physically move them so that the peaks align. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cirrus Posted July 12, 2011 Members Share Posted July 12, 2011 Zooming into the waveform feels a bit like a painting by numbers approach to recording, but I guess it's as good an idea as any until you get used to what to listen out for. A word of advice - look for the start of notes to line up, because sometimes a repeating pattern waveform makes it hard to know whether they're exactly time-aligned or not. Sometimes the phase effect can sound good though, so don't discount it - by having one of the mics much further back in the room you get a more open sound, and part of that sound is going to be phase cancellation. If you're going for that sort of mic technique rather than two close mics, just move the distance mic about until you get something that sounds good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zozobra Posted July 12, 2011 Members Share Posted July 12, 2011 One ghetto way.Set mic A where you like it. Play something through the amp (music, guitar, pink noise, whatever) and move mic B to get the thinnest sound you can and then flip the phase on it and it should be pretty close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cirrus Posted July 12, 2011 Members Share Posted July 12, 2011 The easiest way I have found to get 2 close mics in phase is to place one mic where it sounds good. Then flip the phase on your 2nd preamp and monitor while moving the mic (2nd mic). When you get to the point where the sound is cancelling the most, flip the phase on your preamp back. Now you will have the opposite of most cancellation which is least cancellation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zozobra Posted July 12, 2011 Members Share Posted July 12, 2011 Like I bother reading anything here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abecon5 Posted July 12, 2011 Members Share Posted July 12, 2011 Klops is THE only way this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mr. moon Posted July 12, 2011 Members Share Posted July 12, 2011 2 microphone 1:3 phase rule, as quickly explained here: http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/site/f54c2e7c578b36f7/ You can also just nudge/slide the WAV in whatever DAW software you're using, but remember: "sh1t in, sh1t out", so it's always best to find the mic placement sweet spots before you record as it will make mixing MUCH easier down the road! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Seano Porno Posted July 12, 2011 Members Share Posted July 12, 2011 any tips on avoiding phase cancellations issues (without going KLOPS) Can't be done kid.....can't be done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sled Posted July 12, 2011 Members Share Posted July 12, 2011 Can't be done kid.....can't be done but it can be used to your advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Seano Porno Posted July 12, 2011 Members Share Posted July 12, 2011 Nope.....need KLOPS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Johansolo Posted July 13, 2011 Author Members Share Posted July 13, 2011 cool...ill do some experimenting. since i mainly close mic, i can just see how well the second mic integrates when mixing, if it sounds like {censored}, then no biggie, i wont use it. any suggestions on a good room mic to complement my sm57? i have a spare AKG dynamic mic, no idea what model, but i used to get ok sound close micing it, but maybe its time to add a diffrent type of mic into the collection? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cirrus Posted July 13, 2011 Members Share Posted July 13, 2011 Typically for a room mic you'll want a condensor because the extra sensitivity and full frequency response gets you a more realistic tone. If your room sounds bad, of course, then you probably don't want to use a room mic! So you need to judge how much it's adding. Condensors are handy to have though, if you've only got two dynamics at the mo. There's some which are relatively cheap on the second hand market that are quite good quality, however there are also some that are best avoided because they have hyped high end to the point of being harsh and cheap sounding. The cheapest condensor I ever had that I liked was the AT-2020, also the Sontronics STC-2 is quite natural sounding. The Oktava MK-012 is a great small diaghram mic that actually works well on guitar as long as you don't hit it with too much volume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mesa4x12er2 Posted July 13, 2011 Members Share Posted July 13, 2011 cool...ill do some experimenting.since i mainly close mic, i can just see how well the second mic integrates when mixing, if it sounds like {censored}, then no biggie, i wont use it. any suggestions on a good room mic to complement my sm57?i have a spare AKG dynamic mic, no idea what model, but i used to get ok sound close micing it, but maybe its time to add a diffrent type of mic into the collection? Check out the Audio Technica 4050. Works great as a room mic or a close mic. They can be had used ~$300. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members newholland Posted July 13, 2011 Members Share Posted July 13, 2011 i actually wrote a whole post on what kieffer said.. saying the exact same thing. i just deleted it thinking i was being a turd.... but phase 'anomalies' aren't even a problem unless they're just MASSIVE.. you hear that {censored} every day, and it's what helps our ears tell us what kind of space a sound is in, and where it comes from.. hence... reality. depending on what sound i want to hear-- i'll put a mic out about a foot to start, and then pull one further into the room-- usually starting another 2-3' out or so, and just move that one around. you CAN put two mics right up on the cab.. but how boring is that? totally depends on the space and what you need to hear in the mix. there's always the mute button if you don't like it... and you can also control the 'phasing' mix with the fader. chances are pretty slim if you're using MOSTLY the close mic that you're going to need your distant mic fader way up anyhow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Flogger59 Posted July 13, 2011 Members Share Posted July 13, 2011 2 microphone 1:3 phase rule, as quickly explained here:http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/site/f54c2e7c578b36f7/You can also just nudge/slide the WAV in whatever DAW software you're using, but remember: "sh1t in, sh1t out", so it's always best to find the mic placement sweet spots before you record as it will make mixing MUCH easier down the road! This. Another trick is to put the second mic where a vocal mic would be. BB King stepped away from the vocal mic for solos to get the extra ambience in the studio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SexWithRobots Posted July 13, 2011 Members Share Posted July 13, 2011 Try this new product that just came out called Klops. Its this giant tube with a speaker in it and keeps the speakers from hearing other speakers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sex Panther Posted July 13, 2011 Members Share Posted July 13, 2011 Klops is THE only way Came in here to say this. WAY too late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Johansolo Posted July 13, 2011 Author Members Share Posted July 13, 2011 i knew you all would...hence why i referenced klops in the OP!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mesa4x12er2 Posted July 13, 2011 Members Share Posted July 13, 2011 i knew you all would...hence why i referenced klops in the OP!!! But Klops is the only way. Its 5 years of science! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cirrus Posted July 13, 2011 Members Share Posted July 13, 2011 5 years of one huge mistake, like falling down Escher's staircase FOREVER. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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