Amp Volume Question: Head vs Cab wattage

[poderoso]

Hey guys,

 

So ive been thinking about how my gigging set up is gonna be. First of all I used to haul a solid state halfstack back then and realized I didnt want something that big so Im thinking about getting a 2x12 cab... Or possibly a really loud 1x12?

 

Would it be louder to have something like a 100W head through a 1x12 or 30W through a 2x12? I just wanna have an idea on how the head's wattage affects the cab's wattage. or what if i just get a 2x12 and plug in my 1watter through it?

[~Abstract~]

volume is a function of cone area and how much you can make that cone shake.

 

From there, generalities all fall apart. Usually a 212 will be louder than a 112 (given the same speakers) but since you're driving them with less wattage the true SPL may in fact decrease.

 

To my ears, 412s SOUND louder than 212s, which, in turn, sound louder than single 12's.

 

 

For gigging...anything from 20w - 180w thru a 212 or 412 should be just fine.

 

Try to make sure you have at least 2x the cabinet wattage rating as the amp...since the amps wattage rating is taken at peak CLEAN signal...the wattage will rise significantly when pushed into power amp distortion.

[hecticone]

For years I carried a lot of stuff to the shows. Lately I have been using a single 12 Dumble clone and my pedal board. Plenty enough volume when miced thru a pa.

[poderoso]

 

volume is a function of cone area and how much you can make that cone shake. From there, generalities all fall apart. Usually a 212 will be louder than a 112 (given the same speakers) but since you're driving them with less wattage the true SPL may in fact decrease. To my ears, 412s SOUND louder than 212s, which, in turn, sound louder than single 12's. For gigging...anything from 20w - 180w thru a 212 or 412 should be just fine. Try to make sure you have at least 2x the cabinet wattage rating as the amp...since the amps wattage rating is taken at peak CLEAN signal...the wattage will rise significantly when pushed into power amp distortion.

 

 

hmm... do you think an Orange Dual Terror 30W amp through a 2x12 is good enough? or what if I play through a 1x12? what Im trying to figure out is what would be the most convenient rig to carry around.

 

hmm... would a 15W through a 2x12 be louder than a 30W through a 1x12?

 

Sorry for being too noobish... i dont really have a place to actually test how loud each one goes.

[poderoso]

 

For years I carried a lot of stuff to the shows. Lately I have been using a single 12 Dumble clone and my pedal board. Plenty enough volume when miced thru a pa.

 

 

and thanks for the responses btw. I can use my Blackstar HT-1 mic'd up. Have you seen anyone use this kind of set up?

[hecticone]

I use an vht Ultra and a single 12 for many smaller venues. Thats only 6 watts.

[TravM]

The band that's playing tonight uses a tiny terror on the seven watt setting through a 1x12 and let's me do the rest with the PA, it sounds killer.

[poderoso]

 

I use an vht Ultra and a single 12 for many smaller venues. Thats only 6 watts.

 

 

Oh wow really? Now im thinking about just micing up my blackstar HT-1....

 

@travM

 

The tiny terror is an awesome amp! I wish i never mine... Haha

 

And thanks for the responses. I guess ill just mic up my HT 1. I love the sound so why change it right?

[TravM]

No problem dude, make sure the engineer cranks your monitor as 1w won't give you much stage volume to compete with the other band members

[~Abstract~]

If you're just gonna be "micing it up"...it doesn't matter how much wattage or number of speakers.

 

[poderoso]

If you're just gonna be "micing it up"...it doesn't matter how much wattage or number of speakers.

 

Haha i know. But i still wanna know how the head and cab wattage can affect volume.

[tlbonehead]

Haha i know. But i still wanna know how the head and cab wattage can affect volume.

cab wattage doesn't affect volume. Cab efficiency does.

[solitaire]

A lower W speaker would use up its headroom earlier and hence start compressing than a higher W speaker. So the maximum volume is always less with a lower W speaker or cab. Also the sensitivity rated at 1W doesn't say much about how efficient the speaker is. A speaker rated at 98dB could start performing as a 102dB speaker once it's fed with some serious juice.

[tlbonehead]

A lower W speaker would use up its headroom earlier and hence start compressing than a higher W speaker. So the maximum volume is always less with a lower W speaker or cab. Also the sensitivity rated at 1W doesn't say much about how efficient the speaker is. A speaker rated at 98dB could start performing as a 102dB speaker once it's fed with some serious juice.

ummmm.................

[solitaire]

 

ummmm.................

 

Sorry you were saying?

[theAntihero]

cab wattage doesn't affect volume. Cab efficiency does.

 

 

Very true, get some efficient speakers and 5 watts can be very very loud.

 

 

A lower W speaker would use up its headroom earlier and hence start compressing than a higher W speaker. So the maximum volume is always less with a lower W speaker or cab. Also the sensitivity rated at 1W doesn't say much about how efficient the speaker is. A speaker rated at 98dB could start performing as a 102dB speaker once it's fed with some serious juice.

 

 

The sensitivity is a rating of how efficient a speaker is. All speakers are rated at 1 watt so its an easy way to compare speakers, a 98db speaker is 98% as efficient as a 100db speaker.

 

Wattage rating itself has basically no bearing on how loud any speaker is.

[~Abstract~]

 

...a 98db speaker is 98% as efficient as a 100db speaker.

 

 

Being that dB isn't a linear measurement (it's log) I don't think that math adds up.

[theAntihero]

Being that dB isn't a linear measurement (it's log) I don't think that math adds up.

 

 

True, i believe 3db is something like a 50% increase in volume. My point is its a good comparision instead of when i hit this 98db speaker with 50 watts it acts the same as a 102db hit with 3.45241 watts. I mean even eq settings can drastically change the percieved volume of a speaker depending if its in its sweet spot freq wise.

[GCDEF]

Haha i know. But i still wanna know how the head and cab wattage can affect volume.

Head wattage is the amount of power your amp produces. Cabinet wattage is how much power your cabinet can safely handle. It really isn't an indicator of volume per watt, nor is the number of speakers. If you want volume, look for efficient speakers that can safely handle the power your amp puts out.

[GCDEF]

 

A lower W speaker would use up its headroom earlier and hence start compressing than a higher W speaker. So the maximum volume is always less with a lower W speaker or cab. Also the sensitivity rated at 1W doesn't say much about how efficient the speaker is. A speaker rated at 98dB could start performing as a 102dB speaker once it's fed with some serious juice.

 

 

What???? A lower wattage yet more efficient cabinet could easily be louder than a higher wattage less efficient cabinet. For all intents and purposes, sensitivity and efficiency are the same thing, so sensitivity says a lot about how efficient it is. Nothing in your post really makes sense.

[solitaire]

 

What???? A lower wattage yet more efficient cabinet could easily be louder than a higher wattage less efficient cabinet. For all intents and purposes, sensitivity and efficiency are the same thing, so sensitivity says a lot about how efficient it is. Nothing in your post really makes sense.

 

Oh, yes it does. I think you're reading the post wrong, so any critizism would be I'm not being clear enough.

 

I'm saying: 1) A lower W speaker would compress earlier than a higher W one at the same power. Hence the higher W one at similar sensitivity will be louder. Pure maths.

 

And 2) the sensitivity rating can be misguiding if the speaker is rated for high Ws. The damper is so stiff it needs a few W to come alive. Hence my 150W Fanes are very efficient speakers measured at 98dB sensitivity. They would blow any H mag Celestion out of the water at 15Ws or more I gather, the Fane having so much more magnetic energy in the gap.

 

Does that make sense to you?

[solitaire]

 

The sensitivity is a rating of how efficient a speaker is. All speakers are rated at 1 watt so its an easy way to compare speakers, a 98db speaker is 98% as efficient as a 100db speaker. Wattage rating itself has basically no bearing on how loud any speaker is.

Explanation as stated above. It's basically an equation involving electrical power, power capacity, moving mass, cone/ piston area and magnetic force. One would have to specify the power where one speaker would be louder or quieter than the other. Then given the conditions a Celestion H will be louder than a Celestion M all things equal.

 

I think the ratio to which you are refering is based on 1:1 = 120dB in terms of efficiency. However this only proves the point about the difference between sensitivity and efficiency. Same goes with output vs. gain, horsepower vs. torque and so on.

[~Abstract~]

 

And 2) the sensitivity rating can be misguiding if the speaker is rated for high Ws. The damper is so stiff it needs a few W to come alive. Hence my 150W Fanes are very efficient speakers measured at 98dB sensitivity. They would blow any H mag Celestion out of the water at 15Ws or more I gather, the Fane having so much more magnetic energy in the gap.

 

 

 

To take this analogy even further...

 

Take a competition car audio subwoofer. Those usually have sensitivities in the mid 80s. A guitar speaker with 5 watts would be louder than one of these with 100w. But give the sub 5000w and they will get MUCH MUCH louder than the guitar speaker could ever hope to get.

 

There are so many variables that making generalities can usually come back to bite you.

[solitaire]

True, i believe 3db is something like a 50% increase in volume. My point is its a good comparision instead of when i hit this 98db speaker with 50 watts it acts the same as a 102db hit with 3.45241 watts . I mean even eq settings can drastically change the percieved volume of a speaker depending if its in its sweet spot freq wise.

Sorry, not even close. The ear can perceive a 1dB increase/ decrease of sound pressure. Twice the power and twice the speaker area equals 6dB theoretically. That is really twice the sound energy of 5dB. It's twice the perceived volume increase is said to be 10dB but a lot of people feel the 6dB of the above scenario is closer to that.

 

But I feel we're making it rather difficult for the OP to get a grip on all these aspects, so we may as well give it a rest.

[solitaire]

To take this analogy even further... Take a competition car audio subwoofer. Those usually have sensitivities in the mid 80s. A guitar speaker with 5 watts would be louder than one of these with 100w. But give the sub 5000w and they will get MUCH MUCH louder than the guitar speaker could ever hope to get. There are so many variables that making generalities can usually come back to bite you.

Oh, I'm not bitten by anything that I was aware of. Yes, obviously the more power you feed into it the louder it gets. What are you trying to prove exactly? How would this help the OP to understand his dilemma?